New Dutch study shows filesharing

[theghost]

I don't ever buy cd's. EVER. But, I do buy vinyl. And I'll be fucked if I'm going to waste $20 on shit. I would never buy clothes that I didn't try on first (there are some obvious exceptions) so why would I waste money on music in the same fashion?

[Guest TK-421]

Interesting point TK. To be honest I've never really thought about Youtube. If I owned the record company, I'd probably consider YT a decent vehicle for advertising my artists, safe in the knowledge that the majority of YT users don't know how to rip audio from Flash video (and even if they did, the quality is piss poor). Also the owners of content are still in control to a degree, by requesting that YT take down videos that breach copyright.

 

I agree about most Youtube users, personally though I use it as a music vault. I'm not arsed about ripping the audio as I know Youtube will always be there unless the Internets or Youtube crash. I doubt the artists make much, if anything, from the royalties paid to the record companies and not as much as if I'd bought their CDs/vinyl/legal downloads etc. Anyway it's probably a drop in the ocean compared to the commercial damage caused by file-sharing.

[theghost]

I don't ever buy cd's. EVER. But, I do buy vinyl. And I'll be fucked if I'm going to waste $20 on shit. I would never buy clothes that I didn't try on first (there are some obvious exceptions) so why would I waste money on music in the same fashion?

 

That's not actually true. I buy them used on eBay all of the time.

[Catch22]

It is on /. Slashdot | Dutch Study Says Filesharing Has Positive Economic Effects

 

 

Sorry but from that english translation that survey is nonsense.

 

It merely shows a correlatation: people who download also buy more other electric media...

 

1. Well, obviously. Both my grandmothers never download but also think that a tape is too radical too buy & have no idea what a CD let alone a DVD is

 

2. The question is how much would they have bought w/out downloading. It MAY be less in which case the point of the survey is right, it may be more in which cas eits not... we don't know.

[wiiksie]

That's not actually true. I buy them used on eBay all of the time.

Are you arguing with yourself Ghostie??

 

I also buy fuck loads of vinyl mate, but as a consumer good it just doesn't compare to MP3's in the context of filesharing. You can't get 100% benefit of a 12" by listening to a 60 second rough quality sample online (I use juno.co.uk for 99% of my tunes, and thats how I select what is shite and what isn't).

 

MP3's can be rinsed easily. That is the central issue to the whole Napster/filesharing issue that has been going on for years now.

[theghost]

Are you arguing with yourself Ghostie??

 

I also buy fuck loads of vinyl mate, but as a consumer good it just doesn't compare to MP3's in the context of filesharing. You can't get 100% benefit of a 12" by listening to a 60 second rough quality sample online (I use juno.co.uk for 99% of my tunes, and thats how I select what is shite and what isn't).

 

MP3's can be rinsed easily. That is the central issue to the whole Napster/filesharing issue that has been going on for years now.

 

I am mate, it's my birthday. I'm allowed to be crazy

 

Anyway, I agree with you guys in general. I just can't be arsed paying for something that is sold at twice what is reasonable, hence why I download until I can get ahold of a used copy, or buy it on vinyl if it merits an immediate purchase.

 

I don't even know what I'm trying to say, really.

[Section_31]

The way I justify it to myself, is that with regards TV downloads - it's just a way of viewing something before the DVDs come out because I haven't got sky.

 

I'll download an episode of Battlestar Galactica with every intention of buying the DVD when It comes out a year + down the line. Other times I will try out an episode of a new show. I watched Sons of Anarchy via download (which isn't on terrestrial and won't be out on DVD for at least a year) and will buy the boxset when it comes out because I liked what I saw.

 

With music, I'm not that arsed about it and only use it as a distraction in the gym, and to be honest If I couldn't download the odd obscure tune (I'm talking stuff like a background track from an obscure film mostly, shit like that) I wouldn't be able to buy them or couldn't be arsed forking out for a whole album just for one track anyway.

 

Same with watching streaming f**tball, I'll watch it on the net - but it's not as if I'd be buying Sky if I couldn't. The only difference would be that I quite simply wouldn't watch it because I can't spare the cash.

 

These comanies lose nothing because no physical product exists, only raw data which is copied to me, so it's not like say - stealing a DVD or book - where the individual units AND the original intellectual property have taken time and effort to produce. It's puely intellectual property - and it's very often the difference between having it with a view to buying it anyway when you've got the chance, or never being able to buy it because you haven't got the means.

[Thants]

This thread is missing the new generation. Woo, you're a self proclamied music lover and stealer of music, any comment?

[TheBitch]

I'm a music lover and believe that illegal downloaders will be the death of the industry, i download all my music from amazon and play because itunes is a fucking rip off, £8 for an album the cheeky twats, same one from amazon £4. I want everyone to stop downloading from itunes as of right now.

Also am i right in saying that the americans pay far less for their itunes and they just try and bend us over?

[Woo]

This thread is missing the new generation. Woo, you're a self proclamied music lover and stealer of music, any comment?

 

I download music with out paying for it, and feel no guilt whatsoever. I truly am a cunt of the highest order. I have no problem with people having a go at me for it, because I know it's wrong. But I'm not going to change.

 

Thanks to file sharing I listen to a hell of a lot more music than I would if I just went out and bought the CD's, as there is no sort of loss if you download an album and it's shit, but if you go out and pay a tenner and it's shit you would be pissed off.

 

That said, if I see a CD that's on offer, I will buy it with no hesitation. For example I got the Daft Punk live album for £3 off play.com, and the New Order singles collection for £4. But I won't be paying £10 for a chart CD, when I can get it easier off the internet for free. Not to mention it's easier to get it onto my ipod (I know that's a fucking awful excuse).

 

But I go to a hell of a lot of gigs, and the majority of bands I've gone to see have been because I have downloaded their stuff, and liked it. I'd say a good 75% off artists I've been to see I wouldn't have bought their albums as I had never heard of them, but thanks to the little risk that downloading provides. I have no problem with paying the inflated ticket prices nowadays because I know I save a hell of a lot through mostly downloading.

[Stu Monty]

I think you can see that record labels have had to stop extorting people quite so badly due to downloading. I mean; when was the last time you paid a tenner for a CD? Not fucking likely is it? What's the average price now for a new CD, about £7.99 isn't it? That'll come down too.

[Woo]

I think you can see that record labels have had to stop extorting people quite so badly due to downloading. I mean; when was the last time you paid a tenner for a CD? Not fucking likely is it? What's the average price now for a new CD, about £7.99 isn't it? That'll come down too.

 

Last I checked in Tesco's (which happens to be one of the cheapest place to get CD's), the chart ones were a tenner, or something stupid like £9.79.

[sh#t waffle]

It's an interesting one, this. I find the constant bleating of major labels on this subject extremely amusing, as it's payback for years of rinsing both artists and their fans. I can see exactly what Thants is saying about indies being the first to go to the wall, but I can also see the logic in what other people have said regarding using it pretty much as a 'try before you buy' thing. I don't really download myself, but that's really more to do with being a luddite and liking having the artwork etc (as well as being lucky enough to get a lot of free music legitimately). One of the saddest things about it for me is that I actually think people are swamped with too much music. If you download thirty-forty albums a week, how long do you give a record to grab your attention? I know for a fact that several of my favourite albums of all time wouldn't be so if I was filesharing, as they took me 9-10 listens in full to click with me. I can only really foresee the death of the album as a concept, and that's really sad.

[wiiksie]

I don't but this 'try before you buy' thing at all. Are people who download movies, dvd's or software 'trying before they buy'? Are they bollocks.

 

Until the copyright/intellectual property laws change, its still illegal. And although I've done it myself before, I can't justify it at all.

[sh#t waffle]

People like Section 31 say that they download tv shows etc in lieu of Sky, and then, in the same way as he would if he'd watched it on Sky, if he likes it he'll buy it on CD. That is 'try before you buy', even though I guess it's depriving that nice Mr Murdoch of another ivory back scratcher. Of course, the vast majority don't do that, they use it as a way of getting something for nothing. The big bands will find a way of clawing the money back (more and more are releasing 'special edition' vinyl box sets of albums with a few outtakes on them and charging £40); I'm not sure how unestablished acts will cope. The Arctic Monkeys model seemed a good one at the time (lob everything you ever record demo wise on the website and tour constantly to build a buzz), and it seemed like the internet was going to take all power away from the labels and empower the artists, but now it just looks like a mess.

[Section_31]

People like Section 31 say that they download tv shows etc in lieu of Sky, and then, in the same way as he would if he'd watched it on Sky, if he likes it he'll buy it on CD. That is 'try before you buy', even though I guess it's depriving that nice Mr Murdoch of another ivory back scratcher. Of course, the vast majority don't do that, they use it as a way of getting something for nothing. The big bands will find a way of clawing the money back (more and more are releasing 'special edition' vinyl box sets of albums with a few outtakes on them and charging £40); I'm not sure how unestablished acts will cope. The Arctic Monkeys model seemed a good one at the time (lob everything you ever record demo wise on the website and tour constantly to build a buzz), and it seemed like the internet was going to take all power away from the labels and empower the artists, but now it just looks like a mess.

 

It's not though to be fair, because I can't afford it. He's losing nothing from me, because if I couldn't download it I wouldn't be able to buy it anyway, all that's happening is I'm getting to see something a year before I normally would when the DVDs arrive.

 

I'm effectively making a copy of data that would otherwise be going nowhere, no physical product is being taken away, same goes for watching streaming footy. If I could afford it, wouldn't I rather watch the match on a big TV than strain my eyes at Iraqifootball.com?

 

As an analogy, it's more like watching the TV through somebody else's window.

[wiiksie]

People like Section 31 say that they download tv shows etc in lieu of Sky, and then, in the same way as he would if he'd watched it on Sky, if he likes it he'll buy it on CD. That is 'try before you buy', even though I guess it's depriving that nice Mr Murdoch of another ivory back scratcher. Of course, the vast majority don't do that, they use it as a way of getting something for nothing. The big bands will find a way of clawing the money back (more and more are releasing 'special edition' vinyl box sets of albums with a few outtakes on them and charging £40); I'm not sure how unestablished acts will cope. The Arctic Monkeys model seemed a good one at the time (lob everything you ever record demo wise on the website and tour constantly to build a buzz), and it seemed like the internet was going to take all power away from the labels and empower the artists, but now it just looks like a mess.

It is a mess Olly. And like you've said, it isn't just nasty big corporations who are losing money.

 

No idea how it will get resolved either: because unlike normal supply and demand economics, it isn't consumer demand that is dictating the price of goods, but the actual supply channel itself. Weird times.

[Thants]

One of the saddest things about it for me is that I actually think people are swamped with too much music. If you download thirty-forty albums a week, how long do you give a record to grab your attention?

 

I don't but this 'try before you buy' thing at all. Are people who download movies, dvd's or software 'trying before they buy'? Are they bollocks.

 

Yup and Yup.

 

Woo, you deserve to be banned from the net. Where are the net police? How can there be no guilt? "I love that bands music but I'm going to fuck them over and not care". Fucking wierd philosophy that one.

[Woo]

Woo, you deserve to be banned from the net. Where are the net police? How can there be no guilt? "I love that bands music but I'm going to fuck them over and not care". Fucking wierd philosophy that one.

 

Again, like I said, I don't give a shit Thants. They make enough money without having to worry about me.

[sh#t waffle]

Again, like I said, I don't give a shit Thants. They make enough money without having to worry about me.

 

I just booked tickets to see Doves in March. The tickets themselves were over £20, and I was charged an admin fee of 10 cunting pounds for the two tickets. Gig prices have sky rocketed since album revenue went down, and it is all your fault, Woo. Can you please send me a cheque?

[Mr.SB]

Spotify is ace for sampling music, legal means without resorting to BT piracy.

[Woo]

I just booked tickets to see Doves in March. The tickets themselves were over £20, and I was charged an admin fee of 10 cunting pounds for the two tickets. Gig prices have sky rocketed since album revenue went down, and it is all your fault, Woo. Can you please send me a cheque?

 

Which is why I don't complain about the inflated ticket prices, because I save on the album costs.

[sh#t waffle]

Which is why I don't complain about the inflated ticket prices, because I save on the album costs.

But that doesn't help me, which is why i respectfully ask that you send me some money.

[Woo]

But that doesn't help me, which is why i respectfully ask that you send me some money.

 

You should make fake tickets then, and even the playing field*.

 

*not really.

 

I feel this request needs to be in the form of a crank email.

[Guest TK-421]

Well I've done my bit, I've ordered the new Moon Maan CD. Paid for, legit. Sorted.