Is it possible to win the league on our budget?

[Paul]

Putting to one side the issue of Rafa's mistakes (which most fans now concede he has made/is making), is it actually possible for us to win - not challenge for - the league on our usual £15m-£25m a season transfer budget?

 

 

It's polled up - you know what to do.

[KevieG]

Of course its possible. Wenger does it on 4 million a year.

 

As has been proven, our net spend is on a par with United. We need to address the obsession with quantity over quality and we should be fine, budgetwise anyway.

[hamstrung]

Possible, yes, but much less likely

 

Of course its possible. Wenger does it on 4 million a year.

.

 

Wenger has never actually bought anyone for actual money ever. Maybe you could work out what his last title winning team cost?

[Moschops II]

Putting to one side the issue of Rafa's mistakes (which most fans now concede he has made/is making), is it actually possible for us to win - not challenge for - the league on our usual £15m-£25m a season transfer budget?

 

 

It's polled up - you know what to do.

 

I don't think it is at the moment, no. The only way it's going to be possible is if the financial shortfall is plugged by half the first-team coming through the youth system, as this season's Arsenal's side has. And it'll be 2 or 3 years before that's viable.

 

(I also think under the current owners assuming we're going to get 15-25m a year for transfers might be very wishful thinking, but that's another issue...)

[KevieG]

I went with the Wenger option, but I'm not happy with the quality of the choices.

 

I'd like a "yes if we stop wasting it" option

[TheDrowningMan]

It's possible, but it's not likely - Particularly not when two of the clubs you're competed with have been crafted and sculpted over 11 and 21 years respectively and the other doesn't just have a lot, but has infinite money. Wenger has a rare gift with young players but even he hasn't won the league post-Abramovich and if he fails again this year (while also not winning the CL) it's incredible that he won't be under any pressure, despite being substantially less successful than Rafa since 2004.

[KevieG]

Possible, yes, but much less likely

 

 

 

Wenger has never actually bought anyone for actual money ever. Maybe you could work out what his last title winning team cost?

 

We'll he's there about 10 years and has a net spend of about 40 million. He's won 3 titles, so Wenger will deliver you one of those babys for 13-14 million quid in tranfer money. Net.

Or in laymans terms for the cost of Dirk and Jermaine.

[Dirk]

Possible, yes, but much less likely

 

 

 

Wenger has never actually bought anyone for actual money ever. Maybe you could work out what his last title winning team cost?

 

He's not won the league for 4 years either. The footballing climate has changed a lot with the emergence of Chelsea and the increased funds right across the game. It is possible but it takes time, especially now. When he first won it in 1998, The Premiership was different animal than what it is now. I'm not voting because I don't think the poll accurately reflects how I feel about the subject. Even with time, it's not guaranteed, it's harder to win the league now than ever before.

[Section_31]

If you've got a good scouting network and know how you want your team to play - every game - then yeah I think it is.

 

Rather than wank over the Arse as they are now, I think of the team Wenger built to combat the Mancs back in the late 90s. Vieira, Petit, Anelka and co where hardly household names, and Overmars was considered past his prime, and yet Wenger undid the mancs - who had been building their team for years.

 

Also when people talk about the net spends of the likes of chelsea, you also have to take into account how much of that money they've wasted on players that don't even play or have had no impact. If you take their core players, you're talking Lampard, Cole, Terry etc, who were free or didn't break the bank, they've topped it off with top class high end signings like Carvalhio (sp) and Drogba - which is what we've tried to do with Torres and which has worked.

 

You don't need to spend 20m on players, in fact they don't even need to be the 'best' they just need to be the right players and they need to play consistently together, playing the same brand of football and to know what they're supposed to be doing.

[Cardie]

I don't think it is at the moment, no. The only way it's going to be possible is if the financial shortfall is plugged by half the first-team coming through the youth system, as this season's Arsenal's side has. And it'll be 2 or 3 years before that's viable.

 

They were also given 2 years off from having to challenge for the league.

 

Anyone know the average age of the teams in the top 4, I have a feeling Arsenal's team aren't quite as young as people make out.

[KevieG]

You don't need to spend 20m on players, in fact they don't even need to be the 'best' they just need to be the right players and they need to play consistently together, playing the same brand of football and to know what they're supposed to be doing.

 

NAIL ON THE HEAD

[hamstrung]

We'll he's there about 10 years and has a net spend of about 40 million. He's won 3 titles, so Wenger will deliver you one of those babys for 13-14 million quid in tranfer money. Net.

Or in laymans terms for the cost of Dirk and Jermaine.

 

Thats really sophisticated statistical analysis you've used there. If you can't see how simplistic, and therefore irrelevant it is, then there's not much point going any futher.

 

He had players like Henry, Wiltord, Pires, Reyes in his last title winning side. All relatively expensive.

[Rashid]

You need to be able to buy £30M players year in year out like Barca did for their front 6.

[Rashid]

Thats really sophisticated statistical analysis you've used there. If you can;t see how simplistic, and therefore irrelevant it is, then there's not much point going any futher.

 

He had players like Henry, Wiltord, Pires, Reyes in his last title winning side. All relatively expensive.

 

Were they? Henry wasn't that much more than Kuyt, Pires was the same as Pennant... I will give you the other two although if you trotted up the cost of the whole team I doubt you would get past £50M.

[Paul]

When I posted this, I hadn't actually seen the debate about money on the other thread; it was inspired by a conversation with a mate in work.

 

I think the budgets of the other clubs makes it very difficult. They already have far superior teams and can afford to keep adding to them by cherry-picking the best players in the world available for the position they want to fill. If we go for a drip, drip, drip approach to improvement, Carra will be retired and Gerrard well on the way down before we've got the quality we're currently missing. In other words, as you plug one gap, another one appears.

 

Last season when the sale was first mooted, I advocated massive short term investment to make us competitive and then self-financed bigger budgets from stadium expansion and commercial exploitation of the "brand". I still think that's the only way to realistically do it, but it won't happen with The Twats at the helm.

[hamstrung]

Were they? Henry wasn't that much more than Kuyt, Pires was the same as Pennant... I will give you the other two although if you trotted up the cost of the whole team I doubt you would get past £50M.

 

Aye, lets forget about inflation and/or circumstance for a start....

[Rashid]

I think the best way to do it is sell 8 players, get money in and buy 4 top class ones.. take a hit on the squad to improve the first team and see how that goes for a reason or two.... but managers obsessed with rotation and pro-zone would neved go for that.

[KevieG]

Thats really sophisticated statistical analysis you've used there. If you can't see how simplistic, and therefore irrelevant it is, then there's not much point going any futher.

 

He had players like Henry, Wiltord, Pires, Reyes in his last title winning side. All relatively expensive.

 

I was being facetious.

 

Rafa's uses NET spend as his barometer for being competitive with the other big clubs.

 

Money is not the issue.

[Rashid]

Aye, lets forget about inflation for a start....

 

Market factors are more imortant. Henry was bought at a time when Ferdinand was going to United for £30M and Guffon to Juventus for the same. That wouldn't happen now...... two can play silly games.

[hamstrung]

I was being facetious.

 

Rafa's uses NET spend as his barometer for being competitive with the other big clubs.

 

Money is not the issue.

 

Its not the only issue, but its one of the major ones.

[Cardie]

You need momentum more than anything else.

 

We don't have many league winners in the side, and haven't won it for a long time so the momentum is with the other teams.

 

Take Inter Milan as an example, they hadn't won the league for ages despite being one of, if not the, biggest spenders in Serie A and often bottled it against the big clubs iaround them in the league. It took the Calciopoli scandal for them to win it and build the momentum and belief in the players that has seen them dominate again this season (although granted Milan have been shite) and cane the teams that used to intimidate them.

 

How we can build the momentum and belief I don't know.

 

There are hundreds of reasons why we could and couldn't win the league and no single factor will make the difference it'll be a combination.

[KevieG]

I think it would be worth some peoples while just to take a look at that link provided yesterday just to see in back and white how our spending compares to Arsenal and United. As I said, I though United outspent us until I actually looked at the figures.

[hamstrung]

Market factors are more imortant. Henry was bought at a time when Ferdinand was going to United for £30M and Guffon to Juventus for the same. That wouldn't happen now...... two can play silly games.

 

No one can play games as silly as you do.

 

I'll leave it, as arguing with simpletons is no good for my complexion.

[tokyojoe]

Possible, but bloody difficult.

[Section_31]

When I posted this, I hadn't actually seen the debate about money on the other thread; it was inspired by a conversation with a mate in work.

 

I think the budgets of the other clubs makes it very difficult. They already have far superior teams and can afford to keep adding to them by cherry-picking the best players in the world available for the position they want to fill. If we go for a drip, drip, drip approach to improvement, Carra will be retired and Gerrard well on the way down before we've got the quality we're currently missing. In other words, as you plug one gap, another one appears.

 

Last season when the sale was first mooted, I advocated massive short term investment to make us competitive and then self-financed bigger budgets from stadium expansion and commercial exploitation of the "brand". I still think that's the only way to realistically do it, but it won't happen with The Twats at the helm.

 

Are they the best players in the world though Paul or are they just paying over the odds?

 

Much is made of the fact that Fergusson paid 18m for Carrick and Hargreaves but they're not 18m quality, so in a sense that's a moot point. A good scouting network could find you two players of superior quality for far less.

 

Same goes for Chelsea, spending 30m on Shevchenco and Ballack (wages) when they're at the arse-end of their careers shouldn't make any challenge they've built unasailable.

 

How many 10-20m Chelsea players are sat in the reserves or have been packed off? If you look at the Mancs' the player that makes the biggest difference between them and us is Ronaldo - he cost them what, 7-8m?

 

It's not the money that counts IMO it's the quality, Nani, Anderson (as of yet) Hargreaves, Carrick aren't big-money quality so the money spent shouldn't matter to us, while most of Chelsea's big buys have gone down the toilet.

 

Besides, how often have we been outbid by the Mancs or Chavs for a player we desperately wanted or needed? Vidic was a case of us being slow off the mark and that Chav French winger is shite anyway.