Is Crouch affecting our balance

[Dbnred]

I am concerned about the effect that Crouch has had on our tactics and also on the performances of some of our players. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the big fella, I just feel that Rafa may be slipping in his use or dependency on Crouch. We were largely ineffective in the 2nd half and the number of times the ball was played forward in the air was too much. What happened to pass and move, carpet football. The classical footballers in the side, chaps like Kewell and Alonso seemed to be held back by the ball being lofted forward.

 

Also the big fella is simply not aggressive enough in the box. In the 1st half there were some excellent crosses played in and he was easily brushed off by defenders or simply not getting enough power from his headers. My concern though is that the team strategy seems to be dictated by him and is not accommodating other players skills.

 

My view is that Crouch should spend some time on the bench and be introduced as a sub where defenders will struggle to adjust to his presence as opposed to him being there from the start and possibly upsetting the rhythm of the teams natural style.

 

I'm not blaming Crouchinho for the loss but the overall strategy is not creating goalscoring opportunities... I hope Rafa has a plan.. :wallbutt:

[snez1]

Know what you mean, we need to use him as an alternative not as our main weapon. Far too many long balls yesterday and yes he's poor in the air when attacking the ball. Amazingly.

[aws]

We usually lose our balance when Crouch gets substituted - just like last night.

 

The worst of the long ball stuff last night was in the last 30 mins.

 

I agree about Crouch's lack of aggression but we need to support him either from midfield (which means Gerrard) or with another forward who has both pace and ability (which in the long term rules out both Morientes and Cisse).

[Rashid]

:whistle:

[snez1]

:whistle:

 

 

Just do it.

[BJORN]

I am concerned about the effect that Crouch has had on our tactics and also on the performances of some of our players. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the big fella, I just feel that Rafa may be slipping in his use or dependency on Crouch. We were largely ineffective in the 2nd half and the number of times the ball was played forward in the air was too much. What happened to pass and move, carpet football.

 

All our strikers are struggling at the moment. Crouchy could do with a little rest and I expect Rafa to change a little through our busy period. Still Im not sure if the other strikers will improve the team too much as they are not at their peak at the moment.

 

When it comes to the long balls this is a preferred tactic that most teams use when they are trailing and the other team sits waiting at the back. You just need to get the ball into dangerous areas fast hoping to win the second balls coming down. It is not that Rafa prefers the long ball tactic in general. Crouch being in the team enables us to use it, but it doesnt dictate it.

[Dbnred]

All our strikers are struggling at the moment. Crouchy could do with a little rest and I expect Rafa to change a little through our busy period. Still Im not sure if the other strikers will improve the team too much as they are not at their peak at the moment.

 

When it comes to the long balls this is a preferred tactic that most teams use when they are trailing and the other team sits waiting at the back. You just need to get the ball into dangerous areas fast hoping to win the second balls coming down. It is not that Rafa prefers the long ball tactic in general. Crouch being in the team enables us to use it, but it doesnt dictate it.

 

That tactic may work for other teams when they are behind. we've always been more successful with a patient probing build up of 10-20 passes before the executing the killer blow.. The long ball response is just not the LFC way(no pun intended)

[Red Nick]

45 points from 24 games which puts us on target for 71 points which is even acceptable to Hermes.

 

Crouch is a major factor along with Gerard for us having such a high total, we have picked up many more points away from home because of Crouch.

 

Simple really

[Rashid]

It is all about variation, we had a good run but sooner or later other teams will work out Crouch and Morientes, much like they worked out how to play Heskey. It is not rocket science.... this is when the quality in players come out.

 

Variation in play and variation on runs players make. But in the end it is about quality and aggression, both of which we lack in the final third.

[Rashid]

45 points from 24 games which puts us on target for 71 points which is even acceptable to Hermes.

 

Crouch is a major factor along with Gerard for us having such a high total, we have picked up many more points away from home because of Crouch.

 

Simple really

 

So how many away goals has Crouch got us then? Just wondering like...

[Ritchi3]

It is all about variation, we had a good run but sooner or later other teams will work out Crouch and Morientes, much like they worked out how to play Heskey. It is not rocket science.... this is when the quality in players come out.

 

Variation in play and variation on runs players make. But in the end it is about quality and aggression, both of which we lack in the final third.

 

You should really be our manager, its all so easy isn't it?

[Dbnred]

45 points from 24 games which puts us on target for 71 points which is even acceptable to Hermes.

 

Crouch is a major factor along with Gerard for us having such a high total, we have picked up many more points away from home because of Crouch.

 

Simple really

No complaints here. He certainly has set up many opportunities for the other guys to score. Maybe he should be used in an attacking midfield position. That way we could still get goals that are worked an still have the option on the field of chucking one in every now and then...

[redrosetints]

I am concerned about the effect that Crouch has had on our tactics and also on the performances of some of our players. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the big fella, I just feel that Rafa may be slipping in his use or dependency on Crouch. We were largely ineffective in the 2nd half and the number of times the ball was played forward in the air was too much. What happened to pass and move, carpet football. The classical footballers in the side, chaps like Kewell and Alonso seemed to be held back by the ball being lofted forward.

 

Also the big fella is simply not aggressive enough in the box. In the 1st half there were some excellent crosses played in and he was easily brushed off by defenders or simply not getting enough power from his headers. My concern though is that the team strategy seems to be dictated by him and is not accommodating other players skills.

 

My view is that Crouch should spend some time on the bench and be introduced as a sub where defenders will struggle to adjust to his presence as opposed to him being there from the start and possibly upsetting the rhythm of the teams natural style.

 

I'm not blaming Crouchinho for the loss but the overall strategy is not creating goalscoring opportunities... I hope Rafa has a plan.. :wallbutt:

 

Fair enough if you think that mate, but my feeling is that all too often we lose ALL shape and balance when Crouch goes off. We were in the acendency against United and Brum prior to Crouch being subd and against Chelsea we had far the better of play while the big man was out there. We seem to be suffering as we did at the begining of teh season, with a lack of cohesion between the front men and the strikers.

 

Why ? Well I dont know, I do think the emotional down from losing as we did to the Mancs and conceding to Brum have taken their toll though. We've had a long season and we've hit a wall. WE'll recover. One thing I have notice though, our upturn in form and the subsequent downturn seem to have coincided with Gerrard being on the right or not as he has been in this recent run of games. When Gerrard plays on the right, not only does he put crosses in and add width, but he gets forward alot more, he is free to attack their defence. He links with Crouch and is the extra man. When he's in the middle he's tied down and we seem to lack his creative intelligence, hustle and spark.

 

Like I said a few weeks back, Gerrard to the right, lets get a new central mid in, and tell SG to be our Zidane.

[05 Milan]

It is all about variation, we had a good run but sooner or later other teams will work out Crouch and Morientes, much like they worked out how to play Heskey. It is not rocket science.... this is when the quality in players come out.

 

Variation in play and variation on runs players make. But in the end it is about quality and aggression, both of which we lack in the final third.

 

I don't get it, work out Crouch? Hasn't he been playing regularly in the premiership for a while now?

 

For me, the player not good enough is Morientes. Crouch still does what is asked of him, although his standards have dropped lately.

 

Just look at how we controlled Charlton yesterday, pinning them down in their own half for the first 45. They resorted to hoofing balls up to the pacey Bents, and got lucky with a dubious penalty. I prefer our style of play.

 

I shouldn't have to tell you this, as it is widely recognised, but Crouch is the player enabling us to press teams higher up the pitch. He needs to work on his finishing, but he is not the one who needs to be replaced.

[Moschops II]

This is just all an irrelevant debate - if Rashid had the courage of his convictions, he'd say the same thing now that he was saying last summer, and that it obviously grated on him that he'd ever had to stop saying - that Crouch isn't good enough for us, he's a freak and a lanky streak of piss, that he (Rashid) finds having him (Crouch) in the team embarrassing (because in St Albans you're surrounded by Tottenham and Chelsea fans who probably take the piss), and that any time we perform badly, any criticism or discussion of anything regarding other players or the team's performance will be hijacked and turned into another one-note fucking drone about how when everything's said and done it's all because of Peter Crouch.

 

People said this was going to happen, and it has - after grudgingly kissing Crouch's arse when it became unavoidably obvious what a contribution he was making to our good form, as soon as he has a couple of dodgy games or the team hits a bad spell, the same old shit just comes dribbling back out of every post Rashid makes.

 

And if I could just PUT HIM ON FUCKING IGNORE then I wouldn't have to continue seeing him ruin the entire forum.

[Karl_b]

I think the idea of Gerrard playing a free role like Zidane on the right could be a superb long term decision. The question would then be do we need to bring another central midfielder? Alonso and Sissoko play together very well and Hamann is still quality but in the long term needs replacing, but with whom?

 

On Crouch, I think he is very very important to the team, for reasons mentioned so many times I need not repeat them. He does need someone alongside him that will benefit from his style of play, someone who will get goals. For me this should be Fowler for the remainder of the season and Cisse should be given a decent run up front. Morientes just does not seem like he will ever be good enough in this league. Who we buy in the summer I have no idea, but someone like Owen would be great.

[redrosetints]

I think the idea of Gerrard playing a free role like Zidane on the right could be a superb long term decision. The question would then be do we need to bring another central midfielder? Alonso and Sissoko play together very well and Hamann is still quality but in the long term needs replacing, but with whom?

 

Barton and Nolan. And depending on how well he does on loan at Pompey, Andreas D'allesandro might be worth a look. Dean Whitehead is also a very good player. But if you want a mini me, Barton is your man. He is very Sg like, just not QUITE as good.

[Karl_b]

Very good calls on Barton and Nolan. Both local lads with real quality.

[Moschops II]

Barton and Nolan. And depending on how well he does on loan at Pompey, Andreas D'allesandro might be worth a look. Dean Whitehead is also a very good player. But if you want a mini me, Barton is your man. He is very Sg like, just not QUITE as good.

 

We don't need Barton AND Nolan - and I know which one I'd prefer. To me, they're far too similar, and although there's an argument to be made that if Gerrard stays wide right or in a free role we need two midfielders to come in as cover for Xabi and Momo, I'd much prefer one to be a real passer - Whitehead's a good call and I can see why we've been linked him so heavily.

 

I just think if Barton wasn't a local lad, there'd be far fewer calls for him to be signed - for my money, I'd take Nolan, O'Neil or Parker ahead of him in the role he's best suited for.

[Cardie]

The reason things seem to fall apart when Crouch goes off is because we don't alter the play to take into account him not being there. We still pump long balls to the strikers regardless.

 

Crouch is half a player, he holds the ball up well (although not as well lately) but forgets that he's still a striker. Plenty of strikers around who can do both jobs, they aren't mutually exclusive.

 

He should be an option from the bench not the first choice striker.

[JangoSolo]

I can't think of a more effective RW than Stevie - not one that costs less than £10m anyway.

 

There are loads of options for the center of the park, Nolan or Barton being excellent choices, not really watchjed Whitehead, though O'Neill looks a good prospect.

[snez1]

I personally would like to see Cisse given a run in the side at the moment. He's not been used as much as Crouch or Nando so he will be far less knackered (aand they both looked fucked last night - well second half at least) and he's fitter than Robbie obviously. His pace means he'd be a perfect foil for all the 3 other strikers we have(and even Luis, but i'd prefer him wide and Stevie in the middle when they are both fit because Xabi and Momo have both dropped a little lately which is understandable).

 

Robbie isn't just the poacher he used to be, he's still got that of course, but his all round game is much better than before. Towards the end of last season with Citeh he was their playmaking forward (i.e. he dropped behind the main striker and contributed a number of assists) and revelled in it. He would be compatible with Cisse because they aren't both and out and goalscorers. We'd have a threat in behind with Djib's pace, a real poacher in Robbie and also an intelligent player still able to link play. We may not retain possesion as much as we would with Crouchie in the side, but Djib and Robbie would be the most threatening partnership we could go for in terms of out and out goals offered, in my opinion.

 

Djib and Crouchie would also seem to be prefectly suited and have always done alright together. On paper and in theory this should be the perfect partnership, it has skill, the ability to keep the ball, link play, pace, arial threat, well everything except goals from Crouchie really, but it's another partnership i would like to see.

 

Djib and Nando is similar to Robbie and Djib but i'd bank on Robbie outscoring Morientes. The only 2 up front who shouldn't be paired any more are Nando and Crouch, they both look fucked and short of confidence right now. It worked well for a while but now is the time to unleash Cisse in my opinion. He has MANY rough edges and i still can't forgive that "performance" at Old Toilet but he's the most obvious solution to our problem. Playing 2 big men up front should be working perfectly for us right now. Finnan, Kewell, Gerrard and even Cisse last night have put some top quality ballls into the box recently, but both Crouchie and Nando haven't finished them off, which is unforgivable given their combined ability in the air. We need pace as an alternative and Cisse provides it.

 

I hope Rafa will see past his (admitidley many) limitations and play him up top for the good of the side, he's worked hard a lot recently and hasn't done too bad apart from that mare at Old Toilet.

 

My prefered 11 when Stevie and Luis are back would be:

 

Reina, Finn, Carra, Sami, JAR, Luis, Stevie, Momo, Kewell, Cisse, Fowler/Crouch.

[Karl_b]

No Alonso?!

[redrosetints]

We don't need Barton AND Nolan - and I know which one I'd prefer. To me, they're far too similar, and although there's an argument to be made that if Gerrard stays wide right or in a free role we need two midfielders to come in as cover for Xabi and Momo, I'd much prefer one to be a real passer - Whitehead's a good call and I can see why we've been linked him so heavily.

 

I just think if Barton wasn't a local lad, there'd be far fewer calls for him to be signed - for my money, I'd take Nolan, O'Neil or Parker ahead of him in the role he's best suited for.

 

ONeil gets alot of good press, so maybe, not really seen enough to judge. Not convinced on Parker though, overrated to me.

 

Id say there are two issues there, firstly, how many midfielders do we need ? and Second, who is a suitable target.

 

To answer the first, I think we need to bolster the midfield. The midfield is the area where we excel, it is also an area that is key to Rafas plans. With Rafas game about possesion, control and the team functioning in defence, mdifield and attack as one, its the midfield that is the oil to Rafas 'machine' (Although one could argue its the Glue for Rafas tactics!). We have an excellent 1st 4, (Harry, Alonso, Momo and Gerrard) but to cope with the amount of games and injuries/suspensions during the course of a season, we need, IMHO, 10 players. Right now Id count Harry, Alonso, Momo, Garcia, Zenden, Didi and Gerrard as midfielders. Riise is a good LW, but for me is an excellent LB. Cisse may make a RW but is a striker. With Didis legs slowing him down and Gerrard often on the right, we are very bare. So that's why I think we need to bolster the central area, because it is key to the whole machine Rafa is building and we cannot allow ourselves to come unstuck in that area.

 

Who fits the bill ? Well as I said, Ive heard alot of good stuff about O'Neil but not really seen him. Parker doesnt impress, but Nolan does, we agree there and obviously Whitehead. Someone i forgot earlier is Stepehn Downing, excellent player. Barton, well you obviously see a troubled and limited player, I see SG two seasons ago, you know when SG got us into europe in Geds last season. For me Bartons currently carrying Citeh. And I dont just mean comparisons in how he carrys the team, I also mean that Gerrard had a very specific agenda and motivation revolving around his own dreams and desires. I see alot of that in Barton, hes a professional who want sto be as good as he can be.

 

So in an ideal world we could have ;

 

Kewell, Momo, Alonos, Gerrard

 

or

 

Downing, Barton, Nolan, Garcia

 

With Didi and Zenden in the wings to mop up.

 

With more midfielders you could also play Gerrard and Kewell as the two suport striekrs alongside Crouch, and play a 3 man midfield.

 

We still need another player who can play wide right, but while I want us to improve there, I dont want that at the expense of the area of strength we already have.

 

United in the 90's had one 20 goal a season striker ? But they dominated cos they had Giggs, Keane, SCholes and Beckham, a superb midfield quartet. Similarly, when Ljundberg, Pires and Viera were all fit, Arsenal did very well.

 

Chelsea now have an ok Defence, Drogba up front (need I say more!) but have a sueprb midfield. Duff, Lampard, Makalele and Robben are up there with the United quartet of the 90s.

 

Midfields control games, Rafas tactics are about controlling games, therefore we need to strengthen in the middle, IMHO !

[Paul]

ONeil gets alot of good press, so maybe, not really seen enough to judge. Not convinced on Parker though, overrated to me.

 

Id say there are two issues there, firstly, how many midfielders do we need ? and Second, who is a suitable target.

 

To answer the first, I think we need to bolster the midfield. The midfield is the area where we excel, it is also an area that is key to Rafas plans. With Rafas game about possesion, control and the team functioning in defence, mdifield and attack as one, its the midfield that is the oil to Rafas 'machine' (Although one could argue its the Glue for Rafas tactics!). We have an excellent 1st 4, (Harry, Alonso, Momo and Gerrard) but to cope with the amount of games and injuries/suspensions during the course of a season, we need, IMHO, 10 players. Right now Id count Harry, Alonso, Momo, Garcia, Zenden, Didi and Gerrard as midfielders. Riise is a good LW, but for me is an excellent LB. Cisse may make a RW but is a striker. With Didis legs slowing him down and Gerrard often on the right, we are very bare. So that's why I think we need to bolster the central area, because it is key to the whole machine Rafa is building and we cannot allow ourselves to come unstuck in that area.

 

Who fits the bill ? Well as I said, Ive heard alot of good stuff about O'Neil but not really seen him. Parker doesnt impress, but Nolan does, we agree there and obviously Whitehead. Someone i forgot earlier is Stepehn Downing, excellent player. Barton, well you obviously see a troubled and limited player, I see SG two seasons ago, you know when SG got us into europe in Geds last season. For me Bartons currently carrying Citeh. And I dont just mean comparisons in how he carrys the team, I also mean that Gerrard had a very specific agenda and motivation revolving around his own dreams and desires. I see alot of that in Barton, hes a professional who want sto be as good as he can be.

 

So in an ideal world we could have ;

 

Kewell, Momo, Alonos, Gerrard

 

or

 

Downing, Barton, Nolan, Garcia

 

With Didi and Zenden in the wings to mop up.

 

With more midfielders you could also play Gerrard and Kewell as the two suport striekrs alongside Crouch, and play a 3 man midfield.

 

We still need another player who can play wide right, but while I want us to improve there, I dont want that at the expense of the area of strength we already have.

 

United in the 90's had one 20 goal a season striker ? But they dominated cos they had Giggs, Keane, SCholes and Beckham, a superb midfield quartet. Similarly, when Ljundberg, Pires and Viera were all fit, Arsenal did very well.

 

Chelsea now have an ok Defence, Drogba up front (need I say more!) but have a sueprb midfield. Duff, Lampard, Makalele and Robben are up there with the United quartet of the 90s.

 

Midfields control games, Rafas tactics are about controlling games, therefore we need to strengthen in the middle, IMHO !

Wise words, as ever. However, I'm not sure such a nonsense thread deserves them.