Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[3 Stacks]

16 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

I think it's as much the volume of chances he's missed than the chances themselves. We talked about Gakpo after the LASK game and whether he'd get the same inquisution. I thought about that because it's a good question. But I think it's a volume issue. When you're squandering 3-4 of these chances per game rather than one then it's going to bring more scrutiny.

 

I'm careful about what I say now, rather than just being a counterpoint to you, because I actually really like him and would rather him be on the field than not. And the fact he's getting on the end of so much can only be a positive. 

The fact he misses a number of chances isn't actually much of a negative, though. The volume is a good thing, as long as he converts some chances.

 

Gakpo is a good counter-example because his issue as a forward is that he just isn't as dangerous. He has other qualities, but the fact he is not explosive enough to be in position to score (or miss) as many chances is problematic.

[El Rojo]

46 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

I think it's as much the volume of chances he's missed than the chances themselves. We talked about Gakpo after the LASK game and whether he'd get the same inquisution. I thought about that because it's a good question. But I think it's a volume issue. When you're squandering 3-4 of these chances per game rather than one then it's going to bring more scrutiny.

 

I'm careful about what I say now, rather than just being a counterpoint to you, because I actually really like him and would rather him be on the field than not. And the fact he's getting on the end of so much can only be a positive. 

 

That's a good summation of the whole thing. He's fantastic to watch and even had a good goalscoring record with us last season. He seems to have stepped up a level again but he really needs to put away the easy ones, as he won't always get or succeed with the volley or backheel. 

[No2]

We live in an age without patience, opinions need to be formed quickly and the vast majority aren't for changing. His home debut against Palace was a shocker. That set the tone for the shite we still see and will see until the Saudis buy him in 2031.

 

I was skimming through the match thread on Sunday and could feel the heat coming on Mac Allister. If he doesn't produce that assist and he's now in the shit corner, written off for ever more.

[El Rojo]

12 minutes ago, No2 said:

I was skimming through the match thread on Sunday and could feel the heat coming on Mac Allister. If he doesn't produce that assist and he's now in the shit corner, written off for ever more.

 

You should have seen the post I had drafted about him. And then he clips that ball in for Nunez. Thanks for nothing, Mac Ca. 

[No2]

6 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

 

You should have seen the post I had drafted about him. And then he clips that ball in for Nunez. Thanks for nothing, Mac Ca. 

We scored too soon after half time for the hate to build. Crying shame that.

[dave u]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

 

I think it's as much the volume of chances he's missed than the chances themselves. We talked about Gakpo after the LASK game and whether he'd get the same inquisution. I thought about that because it's a good question. But I think it's a volume issue. When you're squandering 3-4 of these chances per game rather than one then it's going to bring more scrutiny.

 

I'd take issue with the 3-4 of those a game as that's overstating it, but ultimately I think what this comes down to is how people feel about the missed chances and what they mean. If you're worried that's going to continue and that this is who he is, then you'll probably over analyse them because you're waiting for him to prove it.

 

If, like me, you aren't worried at all and are convinced it will turn around (as it did for him at Benfica and for Suarez here and for Lewandowski under Klopp at Dortmund) and he'll explode then you will get frustrated at how people treat him differently.

 

The 'volume' is a factor for both sides too. Some see it as a negative him missing too many chances, others see it as a positive because he gets so many chances that all it takes is a little improvement and he'll score loads (something you acknowledged).

 

As for the point made by others about the transfer fee, the fee we paid is average in the modern game. Sixty something mil, rising by quite a bit if he meets certain landmarks. If he meets those landmarks the fee will look like a steal anyway. Forwards cost a lot of money these days. United paid a similar amount for some cunt nobody had heard of. They paid more than that for Antony.

 

Arsenal paid a lot for Jesus. Spurs for Richarlison. Darwin is fucking miles better than all of them and is no doubt on lower wages than some of them too.

 

The fact that even most (all?) of his doubters want him in the team now whereas they didn't a few weeks ago shows the progress that's been made.

[dave u]

31 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

He seems to have stepped up a level again but he really needs to put away the easy ones, as he won't always get or succeed with the volley or backheel. 

 

They used to say the same thing about me at Thursday night TLW footy.

 

They were wrong.

[TheHowieLama]

"the fee we paid is average in the modern game. Sixty something mil, rising by quite a bit if he meets certain landmarks. If he meets those landmarks the fee will look like a steal anyway. Forwards cost a lot of money these days. United paid a similar amount for some cunt nobody had heard of. They paid more than that for Antony."

 

Mudryk should be getting dog's abuse - he is woeful.

[dave u]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

"the fee we paid is average in the modern game. Sixty something mil, rising by quite a bit if he meets certain landmarks. If he meets those landmarks the fee will look like a steal anyway. Forwards cost a lot of money these days. United paid a similar amount for some cunt nobody had heard of. They paid more than that for Antony."

 

Mudryk should be getting dog's abuse - he is woeful.

 

Forgot about him. But yeah, another example.

[Scooby Dudek]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

"the fee we paid is average in the modern game. Sixty something mil, rising by quite a bit if he meets certain landmarks. If he meets those landmarks the fee will look like a steal anyway. Forwards cost a lot of money these days. United paid a similar amount for some cunt nobody had heard of. They paid more than that for Antony."

 

Mudryk should be getting dog's abuse - he is woeful.

5 Matches

0 Goals

0 Assists

1 Yellow cards

 

Darwin on same number of cards as him, obviously shite

[TheHowieLama]

14 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

23 Matches

0 Goals

1 Assist

3 Yellow cards

 

Darwin on same number of cards as him, obviously shite

 

 

Fixed there.

 

Yelllow cards? Look no further than his high flying teammate Nic Jackson - 5 yellows in 6 matches. Quality that.

[dave u]

27 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

Fixed there.

 

Yelllow cards? Look no further than his high flying teammate Nic Jackson - 5 yellows in 6 matches. Quality that.

 

All for various kinds of dissent. Mentioned that on the last pod.

[Rushies tash]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

Fixed there.

 

Yelllow cards? Look no further than his high flying teammate Nic Jackson - 5 yellows in 6 matches. Quality that.

 

Nothing will convince me that this lad isn't shite. I'd say a pound shop Richarlison but he cost Chelsea £30m.

[3 Stacks]

Jackson looks fine, just raw. He shouldn't be their first choice striker right off the jump, but he's been forced to be because Nkunku got hurt. Still terrible squad management by Chelsea.

 

Mudryk is incomprehensibly shite. He has qualities when you watch him, but he seems completely incapable at being able to translate those qualities into actual good outcomes on the pitch.

[dave u]

22 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Nothing will convince me that this lad isn't shite. I'd say a pound shop Richarlison but he cost Chelsea £30m.

 

Poor man's Alexander Isak.

[Barrington Womble]

14 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

The fact he misses a number of chances isn't actually much of a negative, though. The volume is a good thing, as long as he converts some chances.

 

Gakpo is a good counter-example because his issue as a forward is that he just isn't as dangerous. He has other qualities, but the fact he is not explosive enough to be in position to score (or miss) as many chances is problematic.

 

To be fair to gakpo, I don't think he's trying to get into those goalscoring positions (rightly or wrongly). He's trying to bring other things to the team, which is fine too. But I prefer goals. What's good thing though, is gakpo is making a great habit of those left side back post tap ins. I'm old fashioned, I love those goals.

 

13 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

"the fee we paid is average in the modern game. Sixty something mil, rising by quite a bit if he meets certain landmarks. If he meets those landmarks the fee will look like a steal anyway. Forwards cost a lot of money these days. United paid a similar amount for some cunt nobody had heard of. They paid more than that for Antony."

 

Mudryk should be getting dog's abuse - he is woeful.

 

I've actually got to the point with Chelsea that their player signings are such an example about how not to do it,  that i no longer think it's worthwhile using their signings as a comparison. There's plenty, even just at the mancs with Sancho, anthony and this haaland lite chancer they've bought this summer to show Darwin's price tag should not be some guarantee of greatness. 

[TheHowieLama]

6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Darwin's price tag 

Arsenal and Chelsea are willing to offer players as well as money in their attempts to sign England striker Ivan Toney from Brentford, who are likely to want in excess of £75m for the 27-year-old.

 

Will be 28 and has spent 8 of his 10 years as a professional in the lower leagues.

[3 Stacks]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

To be fair to gakpo, I don't think he's trying to get into those goalscoring positions (rightly or wrongly). He's trying to bring other things to the team, which is fine too. But I prefer goals. What's good thing though, is gakpo is making a great habit of those left side back post tap ins. I'm old fashioned, I love those goals.

 

The way Gakpo plays centre forward is fine in isolation, we saw it for years with Firmino, but it isnt the best option for this team anymore. The difference is that Firmino used to be a 10 by all intents and purposes because Mane and Salah would play inside a lot and make runs in front of him, so if he wasnt the most dangerous goal threat it was totally fine.

 

Now though, we have a Luis Diaz who comes inside, but who is less of a threat in the area than Mane was and we have a Salah that is adapting his game as a playmaker. And then Jota has a goal threat, but if you have Gakpo in the middle and Jota on the left, youre not really stretching teams. 

 

Well keep using him as a false 9, but I think the role Alvarez is playing for City is probably the one that would suit him the best. Playing behind Nunez, as Alvarez plays behind Haaland. Whether that's redundant with what Salah is doing now, I'm not sure though. Maybe they would get in each others way. 

 

 

[Razoray]

19 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Jackson looks fine, just raw. He shouldn't be their first choice striker right off the jump, but he's been forced to be because Nkunku got hurt. Still terrible squad management by Chelsea.

 

Mudryk is incomprehensibly shite. He has qualities when you watch him, but he seems completely incapable at being able to translate those qualities into actual good outcomes on the pitch.

Nkunku isn’t a striker either. He can score goals but the plan was for Nkunku to play behind Jackson. He supposedly played well in pre-season and is a loss, but he isn't going to solve the centre forward problem. Hopefully they buy Toney because I don’t think he will either. 

[TD_LFC]

On 25/09/2023 at 23:57, dave u said:

 

Feel free to show me any other striker in the league who gets the Spanish inquisition over every single missed chance.

 

On 26/09/2023 at 14:38, Chris said:

 

I think it's as much the volume of chances he's missed than the chances themselves.

 

Trying not to re-open the whole Nunez debate but something struck me when thinking about the over analysis, or otherwise, of his misses compared to other players when he put one wide in the second half yesterday (not that it was a bad miss in itself).

 

I don't have the stats but how many of his 'simple' misses are off target as opposed to on target but blocked either by the keeper or other players and does that contribute to the narrative?

 

Rightly or wrongly working the keeper or a block is seen as less of a miss whereas when Nunez misses it seems to not be on target at all more often than not (West Ham being a prime example).

 

 

[Edit] Didn't Klopp or Ljinders talk about the position from which he shoots, or how he positions his feet for shooting a month or so back in an article?

 

 

  

[TheHowieLama]

He hits the woodwork a fair few times.

[TD_LFC]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

He hits the woodwork a fair few times.

 

That as well, I think it's difference between making the opposition work and not that highlights a miss.

 

Again it's purely a hunch and the stats might not play this out at all, he may be missing the target to no greater or lesser degree than any other player.

 

 

[an tha]

First time i have been the game this season last night - the fans love this lad, don't they!....

[Supremolad]

While some people are too focused on the chances he misses, the fact is all forwards miss good chances. The conversion rate for even the best of them would be around 30%. Which means even the best miss close to 70% of chances.

 

What such people seem to ignore with Nunez is his incredible movement off the ball. Many of the chances he gets actually become chances because of his movement. Which is why he is rarely quiet in any game. Even the best defenders can't keep a tab on him all game. He is always bound to get a chance or create one. One of the best quotes I have seen about him is below.

[TheHowieLama]

52 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

While some people are too focused on the chances he misses, the fact is all forwards miss good chances. The conversion rate for even the best of them would be around 30%. Which means even the best miss close to 70% of chances.

 

 

This is from last season - for context the same article has Salah at 13.7% last season.

 

ERLING HAALAND and Son Heung-min have been the sharpest shooters in Europe this season.

They are the only two players in Europe's top five leagues to achieve a goal conversion rate of 25 per cent and above of the non-penalty shots they have taken this year, according to Squawka.