Tory Cabinet Thread

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

The problem with inheritance tax, which I agree should be a significant contributor, is that there are so many ways around it that it's barely policeable or taxable at times.

 

So, currently the latest wheeze is to have houses and estates fully mortaged/remortageged by banks at pathetically low rates, think of it as a handling fee. On death these look like they are debt and as such are not liable to IT, however the family has had a trust set up, non taxable, which will be used to pay off the 'debts' of the estate on death, meaning that all assessets are transfered debt free and free of taxable obligation.

 

Obvioulsly at present only the wealthy how have access to this, but it is becoming more and more common as a way of avoidance.

 

We need a radical rethink on how tax and taxation works in this country as it is so skewed towards taxing those less well off that it's borderline pathologically cruel, as per the design I s'pose.

 

We have 1 in 10 people own  at least a second property, not to mention trusts and funds that hoover them up as well, that's around 5,000,000 people who own homes which are assests and income generators that are not their principle homes, but generate very little tax, whilst destroying access to housing, labour markets, local economies and communities. Start here and work backwards with a sliding scale of contributions.

 

 

The above message was brought to you on behalf of the Conservative Party.

 

Edit: Bruce is wrong wrong wrong, inheritance tax is far harder to hide than most other forms of taxation.

[Gnasher]

One annoying factor in this is Kuensburg has only been back to work a day and she's already being duplicitous. She keeps referring to a 1.5% rise in insurance tax. Insurance tax is currently 12%, it's due to rise to 13.25%, that's a whopping 10% rise, not a 1.5% rise which Laura keeps repeating, a 1.5% rise sounds fairly innocuous a 10% rise (which is what it is) does not.

[Bjornebye]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Big winter for Starmer and Labour coming up, could decide the next election. Tories breaking the triple lock on N Insurance rise, massive cuts to Universal Credit, Furlough scheme ending, add in food and labour shortages and its all gearing up for one thing for her majesty's opposition... time to push all that to one side and spend the next three months talking about the issue on everybody's lips, Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism.

 

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

One annoying factor in this is Kuensburg has only been back to work a day and she's already being duplicitous. She keeps referring to a 1.5% rise in insurance tax. Insurance tax is currently 12%, it's due to rise to 13.25%, that's a whopping 10% rise, not a 1.5% rise which Laura keeps repeating, a 1.5% rise sounds fairly innocuous a 10% rise (which is what it is) does not.

 

 

 

What have you done with Gnasher you cunt 

 

 

[Chairman Meow]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

One annoying factor in this is Kuensburg has only been back to work a day and she's already being duplicitous. She keeps referring to a 1.5% rise in insurance tax. Insurance tax is currently 12%, it's due to rise to 13.25%, that's a whopping 10% rise, not a 1.5% rise which Laura keeps repeating, a 1.5% rise sounds fairly innocuous a 10% rise (which is what it is) does not.

 

You're taking the piss now surely? You were saying that a 1.5% rise in inflation was meaningless a few weeks ago. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

One annoying factor in this is Kuensburg has only been back to work a day and she's already being duplicitous. She keeps referring to a 1.5% rise in insurance tax. Insurance tax is currently 12%, it's due to rise to 13.25%, that's a whopping 10% rise, not a 1.5% rise which Laura keeps repeating, a 1.5% rise sounds fairly innocuous a 10% rise (which is what it is) does not.

*cough* "inflation" *cough*

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

*cough* "inflation" *cough*

 

Pace increase so doesn't count.

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, Chairman Meow said:

 

You're taking the piss now surely? You were saying that a 1.5% rise in inflation was meaningless a few weeks ago. 

No I'm not, a 10% rise in NaT is going to be here for some considerable time and will hit the low/average worker far more the the forecast penny and a half on the hundred rise in inflation, the 1.5% inflation rise was nothing at all to be concerned about and almost all analysts predicted it would would go back down after a short while anyway.

 

A certain level of inflation, say 4-8%, although its obviously not set in stone, increases investment as the value of money decreases and the value of assets hold their value, investment away from money to assets normally leads to growth and increased employment. Ie America now.

 

It's deflation you need to worry about.

[Chairman Meow]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

The problem with inheritance tax, which I agree should be a significant contributor, is that there are so many ways around it that it's barely policeable or taxable at times.

 

So, currently the latest wheeze is to have houses and estates fully mortaged/remortageged by banks at pathetically low rates, think of it as a handling fee. On death these look like they are debt and as such are not liable to IT, however the family has had a trust set up, non taxable, which will be used to pay off the 'debts' of the estate on death, meaning that all assets are transfered debt free and free of taxable obligation.

 

Obvioulsly at present only the wealthy how have access to this, but it is becoming more and more common as a way of avoidance.

 

We need a radical rethink on how tax and taxation works in this country as it is so skewed towards taxing those less well off that it's borderline pathologically cruel, as per the design I s'pose.

 

We have 1 in 10 people own  at least a second property, not to mention trusts and funds that hoover them up as well, that's around 5,000,000 people who own homes which are assests and income generators that are not their principle homes, but generate very little tax, whilst destroying access to housing, labour markets, local economies and communities. Start here and work backwards with a sliding scale of contributions.

 

 

 

Having worked for the enemy in the past, I'd very much be in favour of a much simplified tax system, but there isn't a hope in hell of that occurring or them actually taking high level avoidance seriously. 

 

Going after the people at the top is difficult, requires training, resources and staff who know what they are doing. There are two problems with that, 1: the will to do that from the politicians is not there so it never filters down, 2: if you're capable of working to that level and have any sense you aren't going to HMRC as the money isn't comparable. At the tail end of me working there I was approached by Accenture to jump ship to them and work as a consultant to HMRC, less stress, easier job and would have been at least 4 times my HMRC wage. 

 

Going after a builder who takes the odd bit of cash here and there, a cafe owner or restaurant who keeps a little back etc. is a piece of piss as they generally don't cover it up very well. They also don't have the funds to fight their corner so mostly shit themselves and pay up. 

 

Or as I posted in reference to Panama. 

 

On 17/03/2017 at 09:14, Chairman Meow said:

 

It's far easier to chase after people fiddling the dole or tax credits than to concern themselves with the fact that we have people off shoring cash at every opportunity.

 

Or the fact we are reckoned to be the money laundering capital of the world.

 

Or the fact that when the Panama Papers got leaked the UK is only second to Hong Kong in the list of countries where the intermediaries are operating.

 

I'm sure the fact that the UK has more people involved in hiding money in Panama and the fact we are reckoned to be the money laundering capital of the world are not linked at all.

 

The trouble is investigating Tax fraud at that kind of level is very difficult, time consuming and requires staff to be highly trained. Catching some guy who signs on and does the odd fiddle job only needs one person with a camera. 

 

Likewise catching a one man band builder or a cafe where they don't enter every transaction into the till etc. is very easy to catch. 

 

The will is just not there to put the time and investment in people to do that. Instead they've changed the rules on disciplinarians and such like so you can be penalised for having a negative attitude if you have to audacity to criticise anything.

 

Last figures I saw they have 70 staff investigating offshore tax avoidance.

 

I've not checked how many people they have doing offshore work now, however, during lockdown I was chatting to someone who worked under me there when I was still there. 

 

He reckons it's gotten even worse since then, loads of staff binned or left compliance and gone elsewhere. Around the time I got laid off everyone knew it was coming, anyone with any sense jumped ship and all went elsewhere. What was left was the people who couldn't go anywhere else, so they mostly got left with the dross.

 

I'm not in a position to talk about the work I did there as we're not allowed and I did some fairly high level work but it was soul destroying sometimes just how little management, the senior civil service bods and the then chancellor of the exchequer knew or cared about any of it. 

 

 

 

Personally, I'd advocate that we need a full top to bottom rehash of the entire taxation system. Massively simplify it, remove the grey "spirit of the regulations" avenues for evasion and probably most of all make the people who actually do earn a shit ton of cash actually pay some tax, or at least make them pay the same rate as the people at the bottom do. 

[Gnasher]

Worth remembering inheritance tax decreases from the proposed 12% to a paltry 2% if you earn over 50 thousand a year.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Worth remembering inheritance tax decreases from the proposed 12% to a paltry 2% if you earn over 50 thousand a year.

NI?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I wonder what the effect on the total NI take would be if they flipped that to make it progressive, instead of regressive; say 

• nothing on the first £184 a week (as at present)

• 6% (half of the present rate) on earnings between £184 and £967 a week

• 12% on earnings above £967 a week.

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

NI?

Yeah sorry National Insurance.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I wonder what the effect on the total NI take would be if they flipped that to make it progressive, instead of regressive; say 

• nothing on the first £184 a week (as at present)

• 6% (half of the present rate) on earnings between £184 and £967 a week

• 12% on earnings above £967 a week.

 

 

 

The Mail and Telegraph would cause hell.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Northern Scum don't deserve actual buildings for their health and education.

 

 

[Gnasher]

27 minutes ago, Chairman Meow said:

 

Having worked for the enemy in the past, I'd very much be in favour of a much simplified tax system, but there isn't a hope in hell of that occurring or them actually taking high level avoidance seriously. 

 

Going after the people at the top is difficult, requires training, resources and staff who know what they are doing. There are two problems with that, 1: the will to do that from the politicians is not there so it never filters down, 2: if you're capable of working to that level and have any sense you aren't going to HMRC as the money isn't comparable. At the tail end of me working there I was approached by Accenture to jump ship to them and work as a consultant to HMRC, less stress, easier job and would have been at least 4 times my HMRC wage. 

 

Going after a builder who takes the odd bit of cash here and there, a cafe owner or restaurant who keeps a little back etc. is a piece of piss as they generally don't cover it up very well. They also don't have the funds to fight their corner so mostly shit themselves and pay up. 

 

Or as I posted in reference to Panama. 

 

 

I've not checked how many people they have doing offshore work now, however, during lockdown I was chatting to someone who worked under me there when I was still there. 

 

He reckons it's gotten even worse since then, loads of staff binned or left compliance and gone elsewhere. Around the time I got laid off everyone knew it was coming, anyone with any sense jumped ship and all went elsewhere. What was left was the people who couldn't go anywhere else, so they mostly got left with the dross.

 

I'm not in a position to talk about the work I did there as we're not allowed and I did some fairly high level work but it was soul destroying sometimes just how little management, the senior civil service bods and the then chancellor of the exchequer knew or cared about any of it. 

 

 

 

Personally, I'd advocate that we need a full top to bottom rehash of the entire taxation system. Massively simplify it, remove the grey "spirit of the regulations" avenues for evasion and probably most of all make the people who actually do earn a shit ton of cash actually pay some tax, or at least make them pay the same rate as the people at the bottom do. 

Excellent but unfortunately all very true, fucking depressing really.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Northern Scum don't deserve actual buildings for their health and education.

 

 

 

Irony not lost on the fact this is their second retirement as they're former London buses repurposed.

[Mudface]

At least we know what the 'new hospitals' will look like.

[YorkshireRed]

The floppy haired father of many is about to make a statement on social care in the Commons.

 

If you want your lunch ruining, watch this or get @Carvalho Diablo to make you an egg sandwich. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Why bother watching as always It's been leaked...

 

And again, no surprises it's pathetic.

 

 

[YorkshireRed]

Just now, Bruce Spanner said:

Why bother watching as always It's been leaked...

 

 

Yes, but it’s far more fun to rant and rave at the television.

 

He’s so far blamed Covid and The Opposition. 

[Gnasher]

 

[Arniepie]

The council tax raise has also gone under the radar somewhat.

So if you are one of the people not receiving a fuck off lay rise,these 2 issues alone will see you worse off.

That's without the usual hikes in day to day living and we havent even started on the covid payback.

I can forgive tories.They are just selfish cunts..I'd expect nothing less.

But I'd never forgive those thick red wall cunts who gave this cabal of twats such a mandate.

[YorkshireRed]

Most of the people who have left us with this clown, will not be watching this clown right now.

 

If they were, they probably wouldn’t hear the words. They’d just enjoy the bluster. 
 

They know not what they’ve done. 

[Captain Turdseye]

God, I fucking hate this cunt. 

[Megadrive Man]

8 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

God, I fucking hate this cunt. 

I thought you liked Yorkshire Red?