VAR Thoughts?

[Smell The Glove]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

VAR is awful the world over. It's an abomination which should be scrapped. Then once it's scrapped, the debate about the poor quality of referees and how they can be improved can begin. 

I detest VAR in it's current form and I'm 100% with you on how easy it is for refs to rig the system to get outcomes they want. But there has to be a place where we get to that its used the way its supposed to be used. Would you be happy, for example with Trent being sent off for a punch in brawl that on TV everyone can see is Gravenberch?

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, Dicko said:

Surely it's the other way around though.

These people are making routinely piss poor decisions every game var highlights it.

If you go back to the old system these decisions will get masked and any change will be swept under the carpet.

They get swept under the carpet now because the refs just use it to double down on whatever decision they want to come up with and instead of refs being blames, the system of VAR does. 2 referees agreeing suggests the issue is not with them, but the system built for them to use. 1 referee being called out by everyone is a question of the quality of that referees decision, be that corrupt or incompetent.

 

All VAR does is kill and destroy the game at every turn. The league cup semis against Fulham were a breath of fresh air. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I detest VAR in it's current form and I'm 100% with you on how easy it is for refs to rig the system to get outcomes they want. But there has to be a place where we get to that its used the way its supposed to be used. Would you be happy, for example with Trent being sent off for a punch in brawl that on TV everyone can see is Gravenberch?

 

If it meant we could go back to celebrating goals, we could know when a foul isn't given, it isn't given, offside flags can go up when someone is offside and we can rid ourselves of the tedium of the ridiculous amounts of time it takes them draw a.line to prove offside, it would be a price worth paying. 

 

And the worst thing is, I wouldn't bet on VAR getting the decision you describe correct anyway. 

[Smell The Glove]

2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

If it meant we could go back to celebrating goals, we could know when a foul isn't given, it isn't given, offside flags can go up when someone is offside and we can rid ourselves of the tedium of the ridiculous amounts of time it takes them draw a.line to prove offside, it would be a price worth paying. 

 

And the worst thing is, I wouldn't bet on VAR getting the decision you describe correct anyway. 

I'm not fully arguing with you as I detest it being used the way it is but it has to be used in some instances. It's just madness not to. 

[Smell The Glove]

Just now, Smell The Glove said:

I'm not fully arguing with you as I detest it being used the way it is but it has to be used in some instances. It's just madness not to. 

You can't have someone punch somebody and the ref not see it and nothing is done

[Dicko]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

They get swept under the carpet now because the refs just use it to double down on whatever decision they want to come up with and instead of refs being blames, the system of VAR does. 2 referees agreeing suggests the issue is not with them, but the system built for them to use. 1 referee being called out by everyone is a question of the quality of that referees decision, be that corrupt or incompetent.

 

All VAR does is kill and destroy the game at every turn. The league cup semis against Fulham were a breath of fresh air. 

Yes but now you're aware of them doubling down and acting like twats.

You scrap var you'll still have the same twats running the show but cos a goal can be celebrated fans are willing to put up with the same stupid cunts giving it.

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I'm not fully arguing with you as I detest it being used the way it is but it has to be used in some instances. It's just madness not to. 

 

Why?

 

Football (the game itself) was fine up until 2019, now it's a load of bollocks.

 

We don't need every decision to be perfect, but we need to go back to enjoying our sport.

[Lee909]

Getting rid of VAR is fine

The lino's are pretty good with the offside calls to be fair to them and i think most people will accept the odd wrong call either way as there often a fuck all in the close ones. I wouldn't have a issue with a ref watching the game on a monitor for anything off the ball or obvious dives etc. Just not as involved as VAR is currently and not allowed to use slow motion to decide on tackles should be a red

[Dicko]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

Why?

 

Football (the game itself) was fine up until 2019, now it's a load of bollocks.

It wasn't, the standard of refereeing has declined massively.

[Smell The Glove]

Just now, Mook said:

 

Why?

 

Football (the game itself) was fine up until 2019, now it's a load of bollocks.

I'm with you. Its been made into a tool which definitely can be used to manipulate results but that's on the refs and getting rid of them. But if something is as obvious as a punch not seen, why would you not use technology?

[Mook]

Just now, Dicko said:

It wasn't the standard of refereeing has declined massively.

 

Aye but celebrating goals properly was nice & the flow of the game hadn't been completely destroyed for TV.

[Mook]

Just now, Smell The Glove said:

I'm with you. Its been made into a tool which definitely can be used to manipulate results but that's on the refs and getting rid of them. But if something is as obvious as a punch not seen, why would you not use technology?

 

My arguments against VAR have nothing to do with corruption. It's all to do with how it has completely ruined the way we enjoy the game.

 

Corruption is a completely separate thing for me.

 

Your punching example is quite bizarre, how many times is that likely to happen in a season?

[Smell The Glove]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

My arguments against VAR have nothing to do with corruption. It's all to do with how it has completely ruined the way we enjoy the game.

 

Corruption is a completely separate thing for me.

 

Your punching example is quite bizarre, how many times is that likely to happen in a season?

It doesn't matter how many times it happens. My point is if you have the technology to see it, why wouldn't you use it if it happens. 

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, Dicko said:

Yes but now you're aware of them doubling down and acting like twats.

You scrap var you'll still have the same twats running the show but cos a goal can be celebrated fans are willing to put up with the same stupid cunts giving it.

 

I have no issue with improving the quality of the refs. In fact I am fully supportive of it. But I would help them by taking pressure off them, by removing their VAR duties and scrapping VAR. You've mentioned how refereeing has got worse since the introduction of VAR. That could of course be firstly because referees are not giving their best decisions because the VAR is there to back them up or they're unable to thrive with "big brother" watching. Secondly, the same refs often ref one day and then VAR the next. Perhaps with some additional rest days and some focus on improving their craft, they may improve their quality. We don't expect footballer to work in that manner, we shouldn't refs. 

 

Nobody will ever convince me VAR is good for the game. We've had many years of experiencing it now..its intrusion is intolerable and the longer it is there, the worse the standard of refereeing is. 

 

Bin VAR and then put a plan in place.to.improve the quality of onfield refereeing. 

 

7 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Why?

 

Football (the game itself) was fine up until 2019, now it's a load of bollocks.

 

We don't need every decision to be perfect, but we need to go back to enjoying our sport.

Bang on. 

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

It doesn't matter how many times it happens. My point is if you have the technology to see it, why wouldn't you use it if it happens. 

 

I don't really care an awful lot about something which will happen once every ten thousand games.

 

I quite like a bit of anarchy every now & then tbh. If someone punches another player and the wrong boy gets sent off, they can use it on Question of Sport ten years later. 

[Dicko]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I have no issue with improving the quality of the refs. In fact I am fully supportive of it. But I would help them by taking pressure off them, by removing their VAR duties and scrapping VAR. You've mentioned how refereeing has got worse since the introduction of VAR. That could of course be firstly because referees are not giving their best decisions because the VAR is there to back them up or they're unable to thrive with "big brother" watching. Secondly, the same refs often ref one day and then VAR the next. Perhaps with some additional rest days and some focus on improving their craft, they may improve their quality. We don't expect footballer to work in that manner, we shouldn't refs. 

 

Nobody will ever convince me VAR is good for the game. We've had many years of experiencing it now..its intrusion is intolerable and the longer it is there, the worse the standard of refereeing is. 

 

Bin VAR and then put a plan in place.to.improve the quality of onfield refereeing. 

 

Bang on. 

The standard of refereeing has dropped massively since the onset of the premier league and the professionalisation of officials.

VAR was brought in to help alleviate the pressure, but you were relying on the same idiots to run var that var was brought in to correct. It's a vicious circle.

 

Start with scrapping the PGMOL and bringing referees under the auspices of the FA or the PL getting rid of the shite, promote the best potential and getting proper technical experts in. Then if standards improve give them more autonomy and scale back its use.

[Dicko]

Also Clear & Obvious needs to go.

A decision is right or wrong.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Dicko said:

The standard of refereeing has dropped massively since the onset of the premier league and the professionalisation of officials.

VAR was brought in to help alleviate the pressure, but you were relying on the same idiots to run var that var was brought in to correct. It's a vicious circle.

 

Start with scrapping the PGMOL and bringing referees under the auspices of the FA or the PL getting rid of the shite, promote the best potential and getting proper technical experts in. Then if standards improve give them more autonomy and scale back its use.

Everything you say there makes VAR sound a very English problem. I completely disagree. It's absolutely shit everywhere.

[Dicko]

21 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Everything you say there makes VAR sound a very English problem. I completely disagree. It's absolutely shit everywhere.

And I'm saying it's the people making the decisions not the system itself.

You get rid of clear & obvious and 90% of this goes away.

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, Dicko said:

And I'm saying it's the people making the decisions not the system itself.

You get rid of clear & obvious and 90% of this goes away.

 

So you'd have them going back to like the start of VAR where they were looking for more VAR involvement and they would look at every goal in microscopic detail for a reason to rule it out? If not, where would your bar be for involvement? 

 

For me the issue rests with the fact football is a fast paced game where nearly all refereeing involvement is subjective. The game is destroyed by VARs Intrusion regardless of if it gets some right. Adding a second set of subjective eyes will only slow the game more and by definition, re-refereeing each decision as I likely to be more correct decisions than first time around. 

[aws]

We’re stuck with some form of it unfortunately so probably best just to try and reduce the damage. Keep it for offsides and otherwise only on the rare occasions when the ref asks to be shown  a replay because he didn’t have a clear view of an incident. The VAR role should only be to draw the offside lines and show replays at normal speed - not to give any opinions. 

[VladimirIlyich]

7 hours ago, Smell The Glove said:

I detest VAR in it's current form and I'm 100% with you on how easy it is for refs to rig the system to get outcomes they want. But there has to be a place where we get to that its used the way its supposed to be used. Would you be happy, for example with Trent being sent off for a punch in brawl that on TV everyone can see is Gravenberch?

Why would Trent be mistaken for Gravenberch?

[razor]

Because it's a brawl and often there is a lot going on that the naked eye misses?

 

But anyway, I would par back the whole thing, as although I am in favour of binning it 100%, I don't think it will happen.

 

So they should only use it for "clear and obvious" - such as the brawl example above.  Not for marginal offsides (either off or on) but rather for glaring things like a defender playing everyone on as he's 30 yards behind play after an injury but the lino misses this.

 

Nothing marginal.  Just factual, glaring errors.

 

Give it back to the officials.

 

But will they have the guts to halt this gravy train?  No, I don't think they will.

 

 

[Mook]

10 hours ago, Dicko said:

And I'm saying it's the people making the decisions not the system itself.

You get rid of clear & obvious and 90% of this goes away.

 

It is the system.

 

Get other, better people in and they will still need to review every goal to some extent, ruining the game in the process.

 

'Clear & obvious' is highly subjective.

 

VAR should be scrapped outright.

[CrownPaints]

Why not have the Tennis and Cricket systems where the teams have a limited number of challenges?

 

Take it out of the refs hands completely.