Its hit the fan !! (Atk incident)

[Hand Shandy]

 

I have not talked about insulting someone at all, I have talked about those thinking being referred to as a black is a bad thing and something you should be offended by, to me thats racism because they at the same time say its something to be offended by.

 

Being described as 'a black' is very different to being described as black...

 

Fuck, I'm getting dragged in, aren't I?

[zigackly]

I have not talked about insulting someone at all, I have talked about those thinking being referred to as a black is a bad thing and something you should be offended by, to me thats racism because they at the same time say its something to be offended by.

 

Edit: Hand Shandy got it.

[Code]

Being described as 'a black' is very different to being described as black...

 

Fuck, I'm getting dragged in, aren't I?

 

Not really, it just tell you something about the persons colour and its got nothing to do with racism really.

 

Its about as far down the line of racism related problems as what colour shoes Dave has on when he sell the mag outside the Kop on matchday has got to do with the clubs problems.

[zigackly]

Not really, it just tell you something about the persons colour and its got nothing to do with racism really.

 

Calling someone "a black" is a diminutive term of reference in the English language. You can trust me; I've spoken it fluently for forty odd years.

 

The polite way of putting it would be "a black person".

[Hand Shandy]

 

Not really, it just tell you something about the persons colour and its got nothing to do with racism really.

 

Its about as far down the line of racism related problems as what colour shoes Dave has on when he sell the mag outside the Kop on matchday has got to do with the clubs problems.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong.

 

I'll put it down to English not being your first language, but that 'a' makes a massive difference.

 

EDIT: and this time zig beat me to it.

[Delmar]

I have not talked about insulting someone at all, I have talked about those thinking being referred to as a black is a bad thing and something you should be offended by, to me thats racism because they at the same time say its something to be offended by.

 

Then there is the context, the history, the society around you. Most people do not live in a self imposed vacuum, it makes little sense. Living that way is safe, it challenges no one, especially yourself, but it contributes nothing, either.

[zigackly]

If you want to understand it further, it's because when you use the adjective as a noun and qualify it with an indefinate article, you are implying the reduction of the object to that characteristic. In the same way, you wouldn't call someone "an Irish", because "Irish" is not a noun; you would use "Irishman". Oddly enough though "Norwegian" is both an adjective and a noun, so you can use "a Norwegian" without fear of offence. A subtler example would be referring someone as "a gay", instead of just "gay". Put it down to the language being highly idiosyncratic.

Edited May 21, 2012 by zigackly

[RoboRiise]

Colons. I'm all up in that shit.

 

You trying to bait the homophobes as well Monty?

[Code]

Whatever meaning you put to it, black is just a word to me and when it comes to racism a word is irrelevant whatever historical meaning it might have in the UK.

 

Discrimination in everyday life is the real issue and sadly it does not get the attention iy should get because people are lost in the way of being politically correct in their language as long as they are it does not matter much if they overlook the black girl at the next job interview, no one can claim they are racists because they use the politically correct terms.

[Seamus]

Is voting for the BNP racist, or are they a political party with legal standing? Fine lines. I'd never vote for them myself, but I'd defend someone's right to.

 

This is a viewpoint I've had since being a teenage gobshite know it all (not suggesting your one!) but in recent years (tying in with the constant self-examination mentioned by someone else) I cant help but think if its a bit...well...irresponsible? By that I mean the type of people who hold such views (in my experience) would never vote for someone like the BNP. And the type of people who would vote for the BNP (again in my experience) dont tend to be democracy loving, free thought promoting people who might share the above view. So in effect while we all pat ourselves on the back in the name of free speech like some degree level, right on sociology students, evil cunts are manipulating thick cunts as an alleged legitimate party. Which we know deep down their not. Did people defend the nazi's right to be a legitimate party? If they did that turned out a right balls up innit?!?!?!

 

Not sure where im going with this yet, a couple more years of self examination are required :lol:

 

Ps probably doesn't belong on the FF

[zigackly]

Whatever meaning you put to it, black is just a word to me and when it comes to racism a word is irrelevant whatever historical meaning it might have in the UK.

 

It's not irrelevant. It's an offensive way to refer to someone in English. You can't sugar coat that. A sane person would accept it and move on.

[silverlining]

Do you think the word 'nigger' is irrelevant?

 

Just a word.

[mgw100]

Bear with me though, even though the subject is uncomfortable. If they were a racist party, how could they have legal standing in a society where racism is illegal?

 

If we were to accept that they are, and are cleverly hiding it, would that make everyone who voted for them a racist?

 

I think it's a question of overt/covert.

 

I'm no expert on BNP policy but it must be that case that their overt policy is acceptable legally. The prime example is immigration policy. It is acceptable within mainstream politics to have a view on reducing/increasing levels of immigration. It is not (legally) considered racist to want to reduce immigration due to the economic drivers associated. The BNP can then argue that their position is valid as zero immigration is only an extension of a reduced immigration policy. (I assume their position is zero immigration). They are not so stupid as to put this policy into a racial context (i.e. no immigration for black people but white people are ok).

 

In terms of domestic policy, they will not have policies that overtly advocate discrimination of ethnic minority Brits, but rather will push an agenda suggesting it's white people that are discriminated against in terms of the law and public bodies. This appears to be pretty successful when economic stricture is present.

 

Basically, they aren't stupid and stay within the law, which is what separates them from NF and other more extreme bodies like Combat 18. the subtext is pretty clear to anyone with a brain in their head though but the clear racism is only covert.

[bonesman]

I think it's a question of overt/covert.

 

I'm no expert on BNP policy but it must be that case that their overt policy is acceptable legally. The prime example is immigration policy. It is acceptable within mainstream politics to have a view on reducing/increasing levels of immigration. It is not (legally) considered racist to want to reduce immigration due to the economic drivers associated. The BNP can then argue that their position is valid as zero immigration is only an extension of a reduced immigration policy. (I assume their position is zero immigration). They are not so stupid as to put this policy into a racial context (i.e. no immigration for black people but white people are ok).

 

In terms of domestic policy, they will not have policies that overtly advocate discrimination of ethnic minority Brits, but rather will push an agenda suggesting it's white people that are discriminated against in terms of the law and public bodies. This appears to be pretty successful when economic stricture is present.

 

Basically, they aren't stupid and stay within the law, which is what separates them from NF and other more extreme bodies like Combat 18. the subtext is pretty clear to anyone with a brain in their head though but the clear racism is only covert.

 

When was the last time you heard anything about nf or c18 since bnp came along?

[mgw100]

Logically, I don't think that necessarily everyone that votes for them is a racist. I think people can buy into believing that immigration is not in the best interests of the country, without being racist per se. However, to believe this so strongly that it becomes the most important electoral issue does tend to indicate you have an underlying prejudice.

[mgw100]

When was the last time you heard anything about nf or c18 since bnp came along?

 

Not an expert mate but I thought C18 were still about, at least were a few years ago? I agree BNP pretty much replaced NF

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Code your having an absolute nightmare here.

[zigackly]

I wouldn't disagree with everything people are saying about the BNP to be honest, but whilst their policies fall within legal boundaries, it's a freedom of choice issue for me. I know for a fact that not everyone who votes for them is racist too, because I know someone who did in the last local elections who also falls for the Daily Fail line on immigration, but there is no way on this earth he would do the job he does if he was racist. Not very bright, sure, but nowhere near racist.

 

My position in this thread is that all we can say about atk is that he's uneducated and ill-informed on the subject of immigration and once held racist views about John Barnes. It may seem like a fine line to some, but for me that does not make him a racist now, in the same way that the fact I was admittedly homophobic in the past doesn't mean I haven't learned to think differently over the years.

 

If he was to appear on here today and say he still doesn't want black players at the club, I certainly wouldn't take that stance.

 

Or is that a bit too subtle an opinion for some?

Edited May 21, 2012 by zigackly

[bonesman]

LCfylFg7NkI

 

It doesnt take much to find out what they are really about..

Part 2 is in the listings on the right if your interested..

[mgw100]

There's probably lots of reasons why people vote BNP, so to say everyone who does so is racist would be a little simplistic; not least because the definition of racism is neither straightforward nor definitive. Subconscious acts driven by prejudicial misconceptions are classified as racist in the same way as acts of conscious discrimination or abuse are. It's a big spectrum with one name.

 

My view on the legality of the BNP is that it must be judged neutrally and without preconception. If therefore it's policies and actions are within the framework of the law, then it must be allowed. The freedom of choice argument is valid only within the context of this.

[zigackly]

My view on the legality of the BNP is that it must be judged neutrally and without preconception. If therefore it's policies and actions are within the framework of the law, then it must be allowed. The freedom of choice argument is valid only within the context of this.

 

That's precisely where I'm coming from, even if I personally hate the fact of their existence.

[mgw100]

That's precisely where I'm coming from, even if I personally hate the fact of their existence.

 

Indeed. One of the quirks of liberal democracy is its vulnerability to those that seek to abuse it.

[Fugitive]

Code is defo working for John Terry's defence team.

 

"I put it to you, Mr Ferdinand, that it is you who is the racist for taking offence to being called a black cunt"

 

Fuck off, code.

[Code]

Code is defo working for John Terry's defence team.

 

"I put it to you, Mr Ferdinand, that it is you who is the racist for taking offence to being called a black cunt"

 

Fuck off, code.

 

Its not Ferdinands fault though, its the society he has grown up in who have told him to be offended by it because of cultural and historical reasons and because they think black people should be offended by being called black because its supposed to be less worth.

 

The only reason calling someone a black cunt is deemed racist is because the white majority think black people actually wants to be white.

 

Thats the real racism.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Its not Ferdinands fault though, its the society he has grown up in who have told him to be offended by it because of cultural and historical reasons and because they think black people should be offended by being called black because its supposed to be less worth.

 

The only reason calling someone a black cunt is deemed racist is because the white majority think black people actually wants to be white.

 

Thats the real racism.

 

Hahahaha.

 

Bloody hell.