Martin O'Neill.

[Code]

Your talikng through your arse,Benitez was and is twice the manager of Houllier.

 

Houllier had stability in the boardroom and didn't have to put up with the Cunts that Rafa had too.

 

Houllier was more successful than Rafa.

 

Houllier worked with Parry, Rafa fell out with Parry and had him removed through his mate Hicks.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Quick point :

 

Rafa Benitez has not left the club in a worse state than when he arrived, even putting up with the shower of wankers behind the scenes, the 1st team Benitez has left shits all over Ged's (and I had a lot of respect for houllier and was sad to see him go but thought he could take us no further):

 

Reina, Johnson, carragher, Agger, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Aquilani, Maxi, Gerrard and Torres (Gulacsi, Pacheco, Kuyt, Skrtel, Lucas)

 

Like it or not they are a far better side than:

 

Dudek, Finnan, Henchoz, Hyppia, Carragher, Riise, Haaman, Gerrard, Smicer, Owen, Heskey (Kirkland, Murphy, Kewell, Traore, & the crown jewels)

 

We may have finished lower than when Ged left, but to say that he has left us in a worse position than Houllier is fucking facile. The battle is won as regards Benitez, but the war against the yanks is ongoing and the more people denigrate Benitez's achievements the more you allow the syphillitic yank cunts off their part in the destruction that was last season.

It's bemusing how many people cannot see the wood for the trees, as far as I can see we just threw away our chance of retaining any stability at the club - but it's ok, I've got it on high authority Kenny is gonna run the show - except he's not, he doesn't want it because it's a poisoned chalice... Gandhi would fuck off the idea of trying to unite our club right now. So Martin O'Neill, hmmm, well I'm up for giving it a shot if he is, but he's currently working with one of the sleeping giants - European Cup winners don't yer know, with yank backing.... Ok Martin come on over, you'll have my full backing - so long as:

 

1. you insist that any money raised by players sold, goes straight back into the team (not on contract extensions by the way, I've heard that one before)

2. We should get to the semi's of either the wafer cup of the fa cup

3. Back in the top 4 at first refusal (shit our squad is better than villa's and he did alright with them, if he will be an improvement on benitez this is a must)

 

Ok Martin, we'll wait for yer call..... Martin

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Houllier was more successful than Rafa.

 

Houllier worked with Parry, Rafa fell out with Parry and had him removed through his mate Hicks.

 

How can you quote Aristotle in yer signature but be so fucking indubitably, indescribably wrong??? I reckon ye'd be better sticking to the more socratic style of questioning, as when you postulate, you post shite...

[Code]

Quick point :

 

Rafa Benitez has not left the club in a worse state than when he arrived, even putting up with the shower of wankers behind the scenes, the 1st team Benitez has left shits all over Ged's (and I had a lot of respect for houllier and was sad to see him go but thought he could take us no further):

 

Reina, Johnson, carragher, Agger, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Aquilani, Maxi, Gerrard and Torres (Gulacsi, Pacheco, Kuyt, Skrtel, Lucas)

 

Like it or not they are a far better side than:

 

Dudek, Finnan, Henchoz, Hyppia, Carragher, Riise, Haaman, Gerrard, Smicer, Owen, Heskey (Kirkland, Murphy, Kewell, Traore, & the crown jewels)

 

I disagree I would take the GH team any day of the week, the only improvements are Torres and Reina and thats not much to ask for after 6 seasons.

[Code]

How can you quote Aristotle in yer signature but be so fucking indubitably, indescribably wrong??? I reckon ye'd be better sticking to the more socratic style of questioning, as when you postulate, you post shite...

 

He won more cups and they both finsihed second once.

[goatboy59]

Reina, Johnson, carragher, Agger, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Aquilani, Maxi, Gerrard and Torres (Gulacsi, Pacheco, Kuyt, Skrtel, Lucas)

 

Dudek, Finnan, Henchoz, Hyppia, Carragher, Riise, Haaman, Gerrard, Smicer, Owen, Heskey (Kirkland, Murphy, Kewell, Traore, & the crown jewels)

 

 

Not as cut and dried as you think.

 

Reina

 

Finnan Carragher Hyypia Traore

Murphy Hamann Gerrard Riise

Owen Torres

 

If we were a full-on attacking side you'd take Johnson, the choice of left backs would be like picking between Stalin or Hitler, and of course if Arbeloa and Alonso were still here Rafa would have a lot more in the 'first team'.

 

I appreciate Hamann and Masch is a close call, sentiment and the Ataturk play a part I admit, but as I say not so cut and dried.

 

Makes no odds as Rafa was the better coach anyway. Interesting pub argument at best.

[Code]

Houllier:

99/00: 4th,

00/01: 3rd, UEFA Cup, FA Cup, League Cup

01/02: 2nd,

02/03: 5th, League Cup

03/04: 4th

 

Rafa:

04/05: 5th, CL

05/06: 3rd, FA Cup

06/07: 3rd

07/08: 4th

08/09: 2nd

09/10: 7th

 

I did not include glorified practice matches like the Super Cup, but both won one each in 2001 and 2005.

 

GH managed his 4 cups during 5 seasons while Rafa manged his 2 cups in 6 seasons.

 

GH finished outside the top 4 once while Rafa finished outside the top 4 twice and GH did this in a far more competetitive league than Rafa.

 

In GH`s period we had 6 teams finishing inside the top 3 ( The mancs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle and Leeds) in Rafa`s 6 seasons its only been us, the mancs , Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People can twist things all they like but why one of the managers is seen as some kind of demigod and the other a "failure" is difficult to understand.

[bossy]

Fucking hell. blaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[goatboy59]

GH managed his 4 cups during 5 seasons while Rafa manged his 2 cups in 6 seasons.

 

 

The dirty bugger, no wonder we got rid.

[Mark M]

Houllier:

99/00: 4th,

00/01: 3rd, UEFA Cup, FA Cup, League Cup

01/02: 2nd,

02/03: 5th, League Cup

03/04: 4th

 

Rafa:

04/05: 5th, CL

05/06: 3rd, FA Cup

06/07: 3rd

07/08: 4th

08/09: 2nd

09/10: 7th

 

I did not include glorified practice matches like the Super Cup, but both won one each in 2001 and 2005.

 

GH managed his 4 cups during 5 seasons while Rafa manged his 2 cups in 6 seasons.

 

GH finished outside the top 4 once while Rafa finished outside the top 4 twice and GH did this in a far more competetitive league than Rafa.

 

In GH`s period we had 6 teams finishing inside the top 3 ( The mancs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle and Leeds) in Rafa`s 6 seasons its only been us, the mancs , Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People can twist things all they like but why one of the managers is seen as some kind of demigod and the other a "failure" is difficult to understand.

under Rafa we were feared in europe's elite beating alll the top teams home and away, and more often than not getting to the later stages of the Champions league, apart from last season's mickey mouse uefa cup. Houllier could only have dreamed to have as many top european nights as we had under Rafa, we had a couple but nowhere near as much and we didnt have the belief that we had under Rafa. Also Rafa improved Carra by playing him as a centre half something GED wouldnt do. Rafa gave us torres possibly one of the best strikers in the world GED gave us Diouf and Cisse, sorry but GED better than Rafa, for the love of devine christ ive heard it all now. oh by the way Rafa will be going on to manage some of the top teams in europe where has GED gone to?

[RobbieOR]

under Rafa we were feared in europe's elite beating alll the top teams home and away, and more often than not getting to the later stages of the Champions league, apart from last season's mickey mouse uefa cup. Houllier could only have dreamed to have as many top european nights as we had under Rafa, we had a couple but nowhere near as much and we didnt have the belief that we had under Rafa. Also Rafa improved Carra by playing him as a centre half something GED wouldnt do. Rafa gave us torres possibly one of the best strikers in the world GED gave us Diouf and Cisse, sorry but GED better than Rafa, for the love of devine christ ive heard it all now. oh by the way Rafa will be going on to manage some of the top teams in europe where has GED gone to?

 

Cant really argue with that.

 

O'Neill is a fucking cunt and a shit manager. A step backwards (I mean a size 14) if we we were to appoint him as manager. Our 5 million transfer budget would be spent on the likes of Fabian Delph every year. But sure, the press will love us.

[Anubis]

....Dwarves of Troy...

 

They sound ace. If there isn't a team called Dwarves Of Troy then there should be. Somebody start one. Now.

[mickeydocs]

I wanted Rafa to go because the evidence was that he had lost the confidence of many of the senior players. He is a much better manager than Houllier.

[Red-Ed]

Talk about living in the past - what a pointless discussion. I thought this was meant to be a thread about MON.

[Paulie Dangerously]

People rave about O'Neill and the fine job he's done at Villa but from what I can see he's taken a mediocre team struggling to break into the big 4 and turned them into a mediocre team still struggling to break into the big 4.

 

I don't think he could step up to the plate for a big team. He did it at Celtic but everyone (Digger excluded) could win a title with one of the old firm given a few seasons

[Code]

Cant really argue with that.

 

O'Neill is a fucking cunt and a shit manager. A step backwards (I mean a size 14) if we we were to appoint him as manager. Our 5 million transfer budget would be spent on the likes of Fabian Delph every year. But sure, the press will love us.

 

Yes you can if you want to.

 

How did the other teams from the PL do in Europe when GH was here compared to when Rafa has been here?

 

Could it be because of the money coming into the PL the last seasons and the players wanting to play here?

[Guest The Chimp]

Wait a minute Frode I thought you were of the opinion that it was down to the squad that we won the Champions League? Also, if it's easier now, what excuse Villa for doing fuck all? Apologies if I've misunderstood, but I'm confused as to what you're getting at here.

[RobbieOR]

Yes you can if you want to.

 

How did the other teams from the PL do in Europe when GH was here compared to when Rafa has been here?

 

Could it be because of the money coming into the PL the last seasons and the players wanting to play here?

 

Since Rafa has been here there have been two English winners. Us and the Mancs. There was one while Houllier was here. The Mancs in 99. The Mancs and Chelsea also got to semis in 02 and 04 respectively.

 

Benitez took Houlliers team all the way in the European cup where as Houllier took the same team (Minus Alonso and Garcia) to the quarters of the Uefa Cup in 04. Benitez did make us a feared team in Europe.

[Code]

Wait a minute Frode I thought you were of the opinion that it was down to the squad that we won the Champions League? Also, if it's easier now, what excuse Villa for doing fuck all? Apologies if I've misunderstood, but I'm confused as to what you're getting at here.

 

I was talking about Rafa in Europe vs GH in Europe.

 

We have been pretty good in Europe under Rafa, bus so have every other English clubs in his time here, you cant say the same about GH`s time so the question is how much of it can be laid on the door of Rafa instead of just general English dominance because of the money?

[Moo]

Yes you can if you want to.

 

How did the other teams from the PL do in Europe when GH was here compared to when Rafa has been here?

 

Could it be because of the money coming into the PL the last seasons and the players wanting to play here?

 

And yet you claim the PL was more competitive during GH's reign?

Hahahahahhahahahhahahahahahha. Ha.

[liverpoolsno9]

Houllier:

99/00: 4th,

00/01: 3rd, UEFA Cup, FA Cup, League Cup

01/02: 2nd,

02/03: 5th, League Cup

03/04: 4th

 

Rafa:

04/05: 5th, CL

05/06: 3rd, FA Cup

06/07: 3rd

07/08: 4th

08/09: 2nd

09/10: 7th

 

I did not include glorified practice matches like the Super Cup, but both won one each in 2001 and 2005.

 

GH managed his 4 cups during 5 seasons while Rafa manged his 2 cups in 6 seasons.

 

GH finished outside the top 4 once while Rafa finished outside the top 4 twice and GH did this in a far more competetitive league than Rafa.

 

In GH`s period we had 6 teams finishing inside the top 3 ( The mancs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle and Leeds) in Rafa`s 6 seasons its only been us, the mancs , Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People can twist things all they like but why one of the managers is seen as some kind of demigod and the other a "failure" is difficult to understand.

 

 

So your using Geds Uefa Cup win as one of your sticks to beat Rafa with? When we were relegated to UEFA Cup football last season most on here seen it as some sort of insult and that the competition was beneath us. Why? Becuase we`ve been spoilt over the last few years playing at the very top,and that was down to Rafa. You can play with statistics all you fuckin like, but the general attitude to us playing in the Uefa Cup, even the general attitude to us getting to the Semis last season speaks volumes for how Rafa has moved this club forward.

[Lucky Pierre]

I would hate it if he came, but would obviously back him as he's out manager.

 

I can't see why anyone that wanted Rafa out would want MON, ugly football, doesn't get the best out of players, doesn't return anything for the money he spends, and loves Emile Heskey. The only thing he's got over Rafa is his man management style.

[Thants]

Frodo now questioning Rafa in Europe? We were THE feared team for 3 seasons. One victory, one final, one Riise fuck up, 2 exits. You are rewriting history my very odd friend.

[Code]

And yet you claim the PL was more competitive during GH's reign?

Hahahahahhahahahhahahahahahha. Ha.

 

I cant see the relevance of your post.

 

More teams had a chance to fight for the title when GH was here, hence it being more competitive.

[Guest The Chimp]

"Pretty good" is damning with faint praise here let's be honest. We were much more than "pretty good" under Benitez in Europe so as such I'd put a fair bit at his door. Who knows maybe other English teams learnt a thing or two off each other, and off Liverpool in particular over the period in question, given our success.

 

Robbie's assertion that Benitez made us feared in Europe again would seem irrefutable.

 

Anyway, off for a bit. At least now I know the point your were making, so cheers for clarifying.