Our problems

[BENIRL]

This is balls. Blame firmly at the managers door. We have too many bit players in the squad. Aurelio injured most of the fucking time; why not buy a decent left back with cash? Kuyt, squad player at the most, I love to call him a hard worker as well but don’t hide the fact that he is not a striker and we bought him to score goals. Vorninan, not good enough, is more an attacking midfielder than a striker, thank fuck he was free because we have one or two midfielders... Babel, who the fuck knows? Maybe a decent coach will do something with him. Josi, the same, straight swap for our last passenger but has more ability. Pennant, fucking attitude stinks, there is probably a good footballer in there somewhere. Torres is going to be our savior? Regarding our present squad Sammi has been our most loyal servant. Yet he is been made play 2 games a week as the manager thought it not necessary to get more cover for the central of defence. Speaks for itself really.

[fivetimes]

Houllier being too stubborn and refusing to see the problems he is causing rather than resolving. Plus talking shite like "well sissoko has game intelligence".

 

Sorry I meant Benitez, its just the parallels are blinding me.

[Paul]

I can see us beating the arse on Sunday but the problem is that it will only be a false dawn.

 

We're always good for a one-off win. However, we need to improve dramatically to avoid defeat on Sunday. I sincerely hope Xabi and Torres start.

[Mav]

Cool - those who expressed concern after the derby but were told to "shut the fuck up we won didn't we dick head" are now entitled to express their opinion.

 

In answer to Paul's question I say our problems are short term but have the risk of becoming long term if not properly and urgently addressed.

Every decent side is entitled to a blip but we all know where GH's took him - the dole queue.

Whatever it is that is wrong: Rotation, tactics, Paco, Players injured, England, the stars aren't in alignment needs to be addressed now.

It's now nearly 2 months ago since the last decent performance/result. The fact that we are still ONLY 6 points off the top is irrelevent in my view. If we want to win the fucking thing we have to win when others aren't in order to get ahead of those above us so we aren't always playing catch up.

 

I watched Arsenal the other night. They were fucking awesome in the final third. Yes they were only playing Prague's second team. Yes I'm not convinced they have got what it takes to win the league as the wet Wednesday in November will catch up with them like it did last year (at least I fucking hope it does) but when I watch us (save for the Derby game) we are competely labouring in the last third. We have no imagination in front of goal and save for Torres which of our forwards would grace any other top side. Answer: none. I had hoped that Rafa would have addressed that by now.

 

Five times say the similarities with GH are telling and I agree. Rafa seems to come from the school of I'm right and you're wrong and I think you need an element of that as a manager. I was concerned to see Paco go as I thought he would be the one man who could challenge Rafa. What we can be sure of now is that this is Rafa's team and Rafa needs to sort it out.

 

I'm not saying sack Rafa or anything like that. You don't go from being a great manager to a poor one overnight. Istanbul and to a lesser extent Cardiff a year later has cut Rafa a lot of slack and rightly so but equally he can't be fireproof. If he takes the plaudits when things go right he should also take the brickbats when it doesn't. And I suspect there are a fair few coming his way.

 

I will judge Rafa at the end of the year but I just want him to know I'm watching!!

[hamstrung]

Have to say I do think Benitez is the right man for the job, but there's a point where these things become like self fulfilling prophecies.

 

If you don't turn it around quickly it becomes a crisis.

[Dirk]

Have to say I do think Benitez is the right man for the job, but there's a point where these things become like self fulfilling prophecies.

 

If you don't turn it around quickly it becomes a crisis.

 

That's exactly my stance.

[hamstrung]

Well, that's two of us.

[Paul]

Have to say I do think Benitez is the right man for the job, but there's a point where these things become like self fulfilling prophecies.

 

If you don't turn it around quickly it becomes a crisis.

 

Agreed. It does worry me that, after three years, he could start to lose the confidence of the players if things don't change fast. There comes a point for any leader when people have heard it all before and are no longer prepared to cut you the slack they gave you at the start. The more fragile members of the team will be the first to wobble and that worries me when you look at the where the captaincy resides. He's an influential voice at the club and others take their cue from him.

[Dirk]

Well, that's two of us.

 

I think our fans aren't helping matters either, they're giving away scraps to feed the vultures. We need patience and the manager and the players need our support. I was one of the earliest people I know to say that I wanted GH gone, possibly the first but I don't feel this way about Rafa. Rafa and GH are different, GH only had one way of setting up the side, one set of tactics and that was similar to how we played last night. However, Rafa has been forced into this by absence of key personnel, so the comparisons with GH, although to the initial observation appear to be founded, upon scratching beneath the surface it becomes a spurious connection. A lot of managers are stubborn, it's a key mental strength, it only becomes problematic when the manager is stubborn to the point where they never concede their mistakes. Rafa isn't one of these, he's quick to offload failing players, GH never even had the insight to do this. When did GH ever buy players with the calibre of Agger, Alonso, Torres and the potential of Babel or the kind of frustrating genius that is Garcia? Ged had an entirely rigid formula for playing, his tactics rarely varied, he continually bought players to fit his rigid philosophy. Whilst Rafa has bought some limited players, he has also bought some footballing geniuses.

 

 

I'd like to think that people were making judgments based on the evidence presented to them, by taking a deeper look at things but it's obvious some aren't doing this. In recent games we appear to be set up like we were under Ged but if people take a comprehensive look at things they will see why.

[King Emlyn]

The problems are long term imo, the players aren't good enough. And yes i am starting to lose faith in the manager, if that upsets anybody i'm really not arsed. If he honestly thought we "controlled" that game last night then he really is morphing into Houllier

[Dirk]

The problems are long term imo, the players aren't good enough. And yes i am starting to lose faith in the manager, if that upsets anybody i'm really not arsed. If he honestly thought we "controlled" that game last night then he really is morphing into Houllier

 

We did control the game. Where did he say we battered the other team? It's not a fantastical claim.

[shannow]

Long term for me..

 

Until Rafa finds the ability to buy 2 top wingers and one more top goal machine

[Paul]

A lot of managers are stubborn, it's a key mental strength, it only becomes problematic when the manager is stubborn to the point where they never concede their mistakes. Rafa isn't one of these, he's quick to offload failing players, GH never even had the insight to do this. When did GH ever buy players with the calibre of Agger, Alonso, Torres and the potential of Babel or the kind of frustrating genius that is Garcia? Ged had an entirely rigid formula for playing, his tactics rarely varied, he continually bought players to fit his rigid philosophy. Whilst Rafa has bought some limited players, he has also bought some footballing geniuses.

 

Agreed. The comparisons with GH are understandable, but not especially justified in analysing what's happening. I suppose my concerns centre around the heavy use of rotation with this squad. I just don't see how it will work with these players and therefore something's got to give. As I can't see Rafa changing his philosophy, that only leaves the transfer market as a solution, in my opinion. That in itself raises another concern: his record with attacking players. Broadly speaking, it has not been good enough.

 

That can only be attributed to two factors, in my view: his judgement of attacking players or his judgement of how best to use his funds. He has had enough money to bring in more quality, but the fact is that he's often replaced like with like. The reason for that comes back to his heavy use of rotation (he wants as many options as possible) and as that isn't going to change, the only solution I can see is to give him heavier backing in the transfer market - like I wanted to see in the summer.

 

Some might argue that he needs to do better with what he's got, but I believe he's earned the right to be backed further with what he's achieved thus far at Liverpool. Unfortunately, the inevitable Anfield pressure clock is ticking and he needs to act quickly to prevent it becoming the self-fulfilling prophesy Hamstrung mentioned earlier.

[jackofdk]

It's so far taken Rafa 3 years and a hell of a lot of signings to create a team that can't play fluent football on a consistent basis. Will more years and more signings change that? I hope so, but I sincerely doubt it.

[coop]

I dont think all the blame can be put at us not having a strong enough squad as the current Premiership champions won the league using players such as John O'Shea and Darren Fletcher.

 

Our main problem is our top players are not in form. As Paul has already stated we have a spine of a great side. Reina, Agger, Carra, Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres - thats 7 players who are top drawer footballers but other then Reina i dont think any of them are playing anywhere near to their potential.

 

Alonso, Agger and Torres have recently been injured and are finally coming back and i will hold judgement on the team until players as vital as them return but it is worrying how void of ideas we are upfront without Torres and how shite we are in defence without Agger.

 

There is a saying about players playing themselves back into form, whether they can do this if they are getting rotated is another question but we will have to see.

[Dirk]

Agreed. The comparisons with GH are understandable, but not especially justified in analysing what's happening. I suppose my concerns centre around the heavy use of rotation with this squad. I just don't see how it will work with these players and therefore something's got to give. As I can't see Rafa changing his philosophy, that only leaves the transfer market as a solution, in my opinion. That in itself raises another concern: his record with attacking players. Broadly speaking, it has not been good enough.

 

That can only be attributed to two factors, in my view: his judgement of attacking players or his judgement of how best to use his funds. He has had enough money to bring in more quality, but the fact is that he's often replaced like with like. The reason for that comes back to his heavy use of rotation (he wants as many options as possible) and as that isn't going to change, the only solution I can see is to give him heavier backing in the transfer market - like I wanted to see in the summer.

 

Some might argue that he needs to do better with what he's got, but I believe he's earned the right to be backed further with what he's achieved thus far at Liverpool. Unfortunately, the inevitable Anfield pressure clock is ticking and he needs to act quickly to prevent it becoming the self-fulfilling prophesy Hamstrung mentioned earlier.

 

I agree with most of this. What I don't think we can measure is how much his rotation has aided us or hindered us in the past. How much of his rotating has allowed us to do exceptionally well in the CL and to still get in the top 4, given that our squad has been pretty poor? I think he's done well. Like you, I thought he needed more money during the summer, I don't think his spend per player (this is the key factor here for me, not gross or net) is high enough when you compare it to our main rivals. Arsenal being the exception. He could have had more quality and less money but now we have a large enough squad we can go about replacing the dross with quality, bit by bit. Rafa does my nut in at times with his subs and some of his bizarre selections but I honestly believe he is a visionary, I'm just concerned that the masses don't think this and his tenure will be prematurely cut because of fan pressure.

[Dirk]

I dont think all the blame can be put at us not having a strong enough squad as the current Premiership champions won the league using players such as John O'Shea and Darren Fletcher.

 

 

 

United have a smaller amount of poor players, though. I don't think it's about having 25 world class players, I think it's about not having 10 class players and 15 average ones. We need to increase the ratio of class to average players.

[Jose Jones]

God this is a depressing thread. We've got our best manager in nearly 20 years, we've been in two of the last three Champions League finals, and we're still unbeaten in the league this season.

Yeah Rafa has his bad points, he can rotate too much, and he hasn't bought too brilliantly in the forward positions. But I think it's a sign of how much he's raised the expectations at the club that people are getting so pissed off. He's the man who's brought Reina, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres to the club, they're not bad buys. This season we've had Carra, Gerrard, Agger, Alonso and Torres out injured at some point. That's arguably our five best players if you're counting at home. We've had a handful of shit performances and a couple of unlucky ones, including last night.

We haven't got a perfect team, but who has?

For me some players are out of form and others are lacking in a bit of confidence, and it doesn't help as fans if we build the pressure on the manager and the team.

[robslappa]

our problems start with and finish with benitez.

3 players missing out of HIS team and they fall apart seems to be the perceived wisdom on here.Considering Xabi was shite before he got injured that leaves 2.So after 3 years ,we lose 2 players to injury and this is the outcome.They can't even pass to one another for fucks sake,so many senior players so off form it aint funny anymore,(prior to Nando) our most dangerous striker more or less a bit part player, a team playing high on confidence torn apart by stupid needless rotations ,players strolling around in our midfield tonite while we were chasing the game and still we have a huge amount of passengers in every area of the pitch .

Whats all this down to ,luck ,or is it just a teeny weeny bit possible that the problem is with the manager.

 

Agree with all of that. Our problems our down to Benitez.

[JustTosh]

Cool - those who expressed concern after the derby but were told to "shut the fuck up we won didn't we dick head" are now entitled to express their opinion.

 

In answer to Paul's question I say our problems are short term but have the risk of becoming long term if not properly and urgently addressed.

Every decent side is entitled to a blip but we all know where GH's took him - the dole queue.

Whatever it is that is wrong: Rotation, tactics, Paco, Players injured, England, the stars aren't in alignment needs to be addressed now.

It's now nearly 2 months ago since the last decent performance/result. The fact that we are still ONLY 6 points off the top is irrelevent in my view. If we want to win the fucking thing we have to win when others aren't in order to get ahead of those above us so we aren't always playing catch up.

 

I watched Arsenal the other night. They were fucking awesome in the final third. Yes they were only playing Prague's second team. Yes I'm not convinced they have got what it takes to win the league as the wet Wednesday in November will catch up with them like it did last year (at least I fucking hope it does) but when I watch us (save for the Derby game) we are competely labouring in the last third. We have no imagination in front of goal and save for Torres which of our forwards would grace any other top side. Answer: none. I had hoped that Rafa would have addressed that by now.

 

Five times say the similarities with GH are telling and I agree. Rafa seems to come from the school of I'm right and you're wrong and I think you need an element of that as a manager. I was concerned to see Paco go as I thought he would be the one man who could challenge Rafa. What we can be sure of now is that this is Rafa's team and Rafa needs to sort it out.

 

I'm not saying sack Rafa or anything like that. You don't go from being a great manager to a poor one overnight. Istanbul and to a lesser extent Cardiff a year later has cut Rafa a lot of slack and rightly so but equally he can't be fireproof. If he takes the plaudits when things go right he should also take the brickbats when it doesn't. And I suspect there are a fair few coming his way.

 

I will judge Rafa at the end of the year but I just want him to know I'm watching!!

 

 

I agree with you. Good post. I too will await my Rafa verdict until the end of the season, but….

 

What really worries me is what Rafa says in his post match interviews.

 

He’s always telling us “we created a lot of chances”. Sorry Mr. Benitez, but we’re not! Compared to our rivals Arsenal and the mancs I’d say we create about 50% of what they do, simply not good enough. How are we supposed to address that problem when our gaffer tells us there is no such problem? And I hate him telling us how “we were controlling the game”. Controlling the game is OK if we’re 2-0 up. It stinks when we’re 0-2 down and don’t create chances.

 

And. Whatever happened to the match coaching Mr. Benitez? In Istanbul he saw the problem, addressed it, put Hamman on for Finnan. Voilá. Nowadays he waits until the 60th minute, you can adjust your watch to it, and then makes his first substitution. Allways the same whether we’re 3-0 up, at 0-0 or 0-3 down. A cautious sub not changing the system is made at exactly the 60th minute. Then, if we’re absolutely desperate, he makes a sub that might change the match picture, but never before the 80th minute. As I said: When did you stop coaching Rafa?

[jackofdk]

 

And. Whatever happened to the match coaching Mr. Benitez? In Istanbul he saw the problem, addressed it, put Hamman on for Finnan. Voilá. Nowadays he waits until the 60th minute, you can adjust your watch to it, and then makes his first substitution. Allways the same whether we’re 3-0 up, at 0-0 or 0-3 down. A cautious sub not changing the system is made at exactly the 60th minute. Then, if we’re absolutely desperate, he makes a sub that might change the match picture, but never before the 80th minute. As I said: When did you stop coaching Rafa?

 

 

Istanbul was the exception with substitutes. He's always left it late and barely ever makes substitutions at halftime.

[Dirk]

Istanbul was the exception with substitutes. He's always left it late and barely ever makes substitutions at halftime.

 

You mean like Olympiakos, the derby......

[Plewggs]

Each season Raffa’s teams make a poor start as new players take time adjusting to his methods. Knee-jerk fans slag him off, the media question his methods then the team clicks into gear and the poor start is forgotten.

 

I’ve no doubt the same will happen this year.

[robslappa]

I agree with you. Good post. I too will await my Rafa verdict until the end of the season, but….

 

What really worries me is what Rafa says in his post match interviews.

 

He’s always telling us “we created a lot of chances”. Sorry Mr. Benitez, but we’re not! Compared to our rivals Arsenal and the mancs I’d say we create about 50% of what they do, simply not good enough. How are we supposed to address that problem when our gaffer tells us there is no such problem? And I hate him telling us how “we were controlling the game”. Controlling the game is OK if we’re 2-0 up. It stinks when we’re 0-2 down and don’t create chances.

 

And. Whatever happened to the match coaching Mr. Benitez? In Istanbul he saw the problem, addressed it, put Hamman on for Finnan. Voilá. Nowadays he waits until the 60th minute, you can adjust your watch to it, and then makes his first substitution. Allways the same whether we’re 3-0 up, at 0-0 or 0-3 down. A cautious sub not changing the system is made at exactly the 60th minute. Then, if we’re absolutely desperate, he makes a sub that might change the match picture, but never before the 80th minute. As I said: When did you stop coaching Rafa?

 

He was supposed to be taking Traore off, but Finnan was injured - so the substitution was forced on him.

[Dirk]

He was supposed to be taking Traore off, but Finnan was injured - so the substitution was forced on him.

 

Traore off for whom? Hamman?