Torres

[Red Nick]

Benitez defends Torres rotation

 

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez says his squad rotation system will pay dividends at the end of the season.

 

Benitez did not start striker Fernando Torres in the goalless draws with Portsmouth and Birmingham before the forward scored a hat-trick at Reading.

 

"I don't need Torres for playing Birmingham if I have Dirk Kuyt, Andriy Voronin and Peter Crouch," he said.

 

"I need the speed of Torres in the last game of the season - maybe a Champions League final or to win the league."

 

"Those are the decisions of a manager," he added.

 

Despite Torres' triple in the Carling Cup win over Reading, Benitez said it does not guarantee him a starting place for the Reds at Wigan on Saturday.

 

"When you are playing for winning trophies you must analyse everything and say 'OK for the last 10-15 games I need Torres fit'," he said.

 

"People are talking about players playing a lot of games now. They can do it. I don't say that they can't.

 

"You can play 20, 25 or 30 games in a row. No problem. Everybody can do it. The problem is at the end of the season after 30-40 games.

 

"The last 10-15 games you are playing for trophies and you must be fresh, ready and fit."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7017100.stm

 

 

On form to date Torres is easily the best Striker in England and you just cant imagine Mourinho (now gone) or Fergie leaving out DRogba Or Rooney when a league game needed to be one.

 

He keeps resting Torres and it wont matter who fit he is at the end of the season because we wont be in a position to challenge

[Guest Nick Rivieira]

Torres is da bomb:thumbup:

[Red Sun Rising]

"I don't need Torres for playing Birmingham if I have Dirk Kuyt, Andriy Voronin and Peter Crouch," he said.

 

I have a certain amount of sympathy for Rafa's point here - we should be beating Bham with or without Torres.

[Sangria]

"I don't need Torres for playing Birmingham if I have Dirk Kuyt, Andriy Voronin and Peter Crouch," he said.

 

I have a certain amount of sympathy for Rafa's point here - we should be beating Bham with or without Torres.

 

That is the problem. If we had won the game it would not have been mentioned but as we only drew at home, then the obvious flak comes Rafas way.

 

You are right with or without Torres we should have beat Brum.

[coop]

I thought Torres should have played against Brum but you have to remember that Torres is only used to a 40 game season and playing twice in a week is new to him.

 

I think it was Paul Eaton on the offal who made the point that you only have to look at how Wenger is bringing his star striker Eduardo gently into the team to see how we are expecting too much of Torres already.

 

It would be no good challenging for the title and our star striker is burnt out when we need him the most.

 

Lets be honest now we should have beaten Birmingham without Torres. We had two International strikers on show who should have had enough experience to know how to score but its not Rafas fault they stunk the place out.

 

Theres plenty of time for Torres to come into the team but i think paying twice a week is something he will have to get used to and Rafa is obviously bringing him in slowly.

[RedinSweden]

There were a few people saying we should be rotating against such teams as Brum at home. I remember Paul saying him and he wasn't called a gibbering mentalist. The fact is the team he put out against Brum should have beaten them and didn't.

[ali]

If I remember rightly we all expected Fred to be introduced gently into the premier league not thrown to the wolves. The only way to stop the lad is always going to be hacking him to bits, thought Rafa got it bang on for Brum, unfortunately others couldn't pull it off.

 

All this is masking other things anyway, more angry with Gerrard at the mo, after saying in the sunday papers how much he needed the England matches, to the Post report yesterday -

 

“I’m feeling a lot better now,” said Gerrard. “The last three or four days, I’ve been totally pain-free from my toe.

 

“I’ve struggled during the last two or three games and have been getting a lot of pain from it.

 

now that's takes the piss :notamused:

[aws]

If I remember rightly we all expected Fred to be introduced gently into the premier league not thrown to the wolves. The only way to stop the lad is always going to be hacking him to bits, thought Rafa got it bang on for Brum, unfortunately others couldn't pull it off.

 

All this is masking other things anyway, more angry with Gerrard at the mo, after saying in the sunday papers how much he needed the England matches, to the Post report yesterday -

 

“I’m feeling a lot better now,” said Gerrard. “The last three or four days, I’ve been totally pain-free from my toe.

 

“I’ve struggled during the last two or three games and have been getting a lot of pain from it.

 

now that's takes the piss :notamused:

 

Agree with most of that. Probably a mistake to rest him against Brum but it was just a calculated gamble which didn't come off. Not a hanging offence like the media are trying to make out.

 

I'm convinced that if Gerrard had not knackered himself for England we'd have at least two more points now.

[Paul]

There were a few people saying we should be rotating against such teams as Brum at home. I remember Paul saying him and he wasn't called a gibbering mentalist. The fact is the team he put out against Brum should have beaten them and didn't.

 

I didn't have a problem with the Brum team; what I did find confusing was the selection for Reading in that context. Now obviously it was ace for us that Torres did play in that match and maybe it will push Rafa into playing him more, as well as continuing the player's own rapid acclimatisation. However, ultimately, the League Cup is a very minor priority.

 

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with rotation in principle. I just think Rafa's use of it is excessive and sometimes counter-productive.

[ritchie]

Agree with most of that. Probably a mistake to rest him against Brum but it was just a calculated gamble which didn't come off. Not a hanging offence like the media are trying to make out.

 

I'm convinced that if Gerrard had not knackered himself for England we'd have at least two more points now.

 

He'll do it again in October. Gerrard will put all his effort into the Russia match on the Wednesday and have nothing left for the Derby on the Saturday. It was exactly the same last season.

 

As for Torres, someone else said he can't play every game and isn't used to a 40 game season. I agree. But i'd rather he played in the 38 league games when fit and 6-12 CL games and sat out the domestic cups. Since when did we start resting our best players for the Carling Cup?

[Red Nick]

That is the problem. If we had won the game it would not have been mentioned but as we only drew at home, then the obvious flak comes Rafas way.

 

You are right with or without Torres we should have beat Brum.

 

That suposes that the other 3 strikers are any good and we know from last season that Kuyt & Crouch arent good enough and Voronin is obviously nowhere near the quality of Torres IMO. Thats what made Rafa's statement so baffling.

 

I think Babel is better than those other 3 players as a striker.

 

Kuyt's looked good when played with Torres without Torres in the team he looks ordinary.

 

Torres is a fantastic player and were lucky to have him so lets not waste his talent lets play him against wigan have the game won by 60 minutes and then rest him

[robslappa]

As for Torres, someone else said he can't play every game and isn't used to a 40 game season. I agree. But i'd rather he played in the 38 league games when fit and 6-12 CL games and sat out the domestic cups. Since when did we start resting our best players for the Carling Cup?

 

Benitez has said he wants Torres fit for the end of the season and that he can't play all the games at the beginning. Well if that's the case he should have rested him on Tuesday then. If Kuyt and Voronin were supposedly good enough to beat a full strength Birmingham team then they would have been good enough to beat an under strength Reading team.

 

As for Torres not being able to play against Birmingham because the other two play better between the lines and Birmingam sat deep, he couldn't have done any worse and he certainly wouldn't have lost the ball as much as Kuyt.

 

I'm not saying get rid of Benitez, but he's got his team selection in the last two league games horribly wrong - I hope he doesn't make the same mistake tomorrow.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

 

As for Torres not being able to play against Birmingham because the other two play better between the lines and Birmingam sat deep, he couldn't have done any worse and he certainly wouldn't have lost the ball as much as Kuyt.

 

true true...if we wanted to be able to keep the ball in tight spaces, Torres/Crouch should have been the starting pair because Kuyt does not have a good first touch and Voro's at his best when his first touch is into space, which there was none.

[El Rojo]

A lot of solid points on this saga today, particularly that we should of course have beaten Birmingham without Torres.

 

All considered, it's absolutely fantastic that we've got a young world class striker to elevate us into what will hopefully be our first proper title challenge in in age.

 

Thank Christ he's ours.

[ATXRED]

Here's my take, I agree that the team for Brum should have won it easily. We didn't play well, and that's because the players on the field didn't play well. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but Benitez's team sheet was fine. That team should have beat them, end of. (it did make me miss Luis Garcia even more though. I think we missed his creativity.)

 

Yet, I was also unhappy that Torres was selected in midweek. He needs to play in the most important matches, and be rested in competitions such as the Carling Cup. I will say this though, if he is looking to play Torres in matches where he has the most chance for success, and rest him in the matches where he is likely to struggle to bed him in, then Rafa has gotten it spot on. Torres was always going to have an outstanding performance against Reading. Their style of play means more space, and their relatively high line means there is space for balls over the top. That's the exact kind of match he's going to thrive in.

 

So I think we need to remember, that while he is an amazing talent, and in my opinion our best striker by some measure, he is still new to the league. Rafa may very well be trying to protect the confidence of our most expensive player by giving him the best chance to succeed.

[spider-neil]

That suposes that the other 3 strikers are any good and we know from last season that Kuyt & Crouch arent good enough and Voronin is obviously nowhere near the quality of Torres IMO. Thats what made Rafa's statement so baffling.

 

I think Babel is better than those other 3 players as a striker.

 

Kuyt's looked good when played with Torres without Torres in the team he looks ordinary.

 

Torres is a fantastic player and were lucky to have him so lets not waste his talent lets play him against wigan have the game won by 60 minutes and then rest him

 

 

based on what nick? every time I've seen him he has played wide.

do you mean his finishing?

[Judge]

Some people are losing the perspective, just as Rafa does sometimes when he is too smart for his own good.

 

Rafa fucked up big time by playing Torres in the league cup instead of two vital league-games. Most fans have forgiven him, and now we can move on. BUT: These mistakes cost us 4 points that may be absolutely crucial at the end of the season, so we can not afford any more such mistakes.

 

Of course Torres is going to play from the start tomorrow. He is our best striker, it is an away game, we need pace up front etc., etc. Not playing him would be stupid to the extreme.

 

The league is our main priority. It is 38 games. Torres should play everyone of them. He should also play in selected games in the CL and from the quarter final in the FA-cup. He should be nowhere near the league cup except the final.

 

Simple, really.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

Some people are losing the perspective, just as Rafa does sometimes when he is too smart for his own good.

 

Rafa fucked up big time by playing Torres in the league cup instead of two vital league-games. Most fans have forgiven him, and now we can move on. BUT: These mistakes cost us 4 points that may be absolutely crucial at the end of the season, so we can not afford any more such mistakes.

 

Of course Torres is going to play from the start tomorrow. He is our best striker, it is an away game, we need pace up front etc., etc. Not playing him would be stupid to the extreme.

 

The league is our main priority. It is 38 games. Torres should play everyone of them. He should also play in selected games in the CL and from the quarter final in the FA-cup. He should be nowhere near the league cup except the final.

 

Simple, really.

 

excellent points your Honour.

 

now for a counter point, Splendid Hooters...?

[ATXRED]

Rafa fucked up big time by playing Torres in the league cup instead of two vital league-games. Most fans have forgiven him, and now we can move on. BUT: These mistakes cost us 4 points that may be absolutely crucial at the end of the season, so we can not afford any more such mistakes.

 

The problem is, you're assuming those 4 points were in the bag if Torres started. That's irrational, yes, we might have 4 more points in the bag, or we might not have done any better, or we might even have lost. That situation is a hypothetical, and to make that statement is ridiculous.

 

That said, I agree that Torres should start League games first and foremost, and when fit start in other competitions.

[Judge]

The problem is, you're assuming those 4 points were in the bag if Torres started. That's irrational, yes, we might have 4 more points in the bag, or we might not have done any better, or we might even have lost. That situation is a hypothetical, and to make that statement is ridiculous.

That said, I agree that Torres should start League games first and foremost, and when fit start in other competitions.

 

Naturally no one can prove this, but can we agree that we generally have a better chance of winning a match when Torres plays?

[SoMuch4Gravity]

Naturally no one can prove this, but can we agree that we generally have a better chance of winning a match when Torres plays?

 

It boils down to this: if winning the league is our goal, you start your best players when they are fit. Torres is our best striker. I can't remember who said it (someone on here or at the pub), but if Carra' can play pretty much every important game, so can Torres.

[ATXRED]

Naturally no one can prove this, but can we agree that we generally have a better chance of winning a match when Torres plays?

 

Yes we can, I think he's far and away our best striker. I just didn't think your statement was fair, especially considering we have no clue what his fitness was like.

 

Like I said, I also don't know why he was rested at the weekend for an important match, and played midweek in a nothing match. I offered one possibility in a post above, but I still would have preferred to see Torres at the weekend.

[Cardie]

It boils down to this: if winning the league is our goal, you start your best players when they are fit.

 

Other managers don't.

 

As for the Carragher (or Gerrard) comparison, both are used to the league, both used to playing games in quick succession, both used to seasons where you're fighting for four trophys.

 

Torres isn't.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

Other managers don't.

 

As for the Carragher (or Gerrard) comparison, both are used to the league, both used to playing games in quick succession, both used to seasons where you're fighting for four trophys.

 

Torres isn't.

 

Can you clarify your "other managers don't" comment? Do you mean that other managers don't play their best players or that they play their best players even when their not fit? not sure what you're going for there.

 

secondly, weren't you at the meeting where we all agreed the league was our top priority this year? in my opinion Torres has made it abundantly clear that his is able to take the rigors of the prem'. I can't fault Torres for being on a mediocre team and not knowing what it's like to win trophies.

 

Torres doesn't have to play games in quick succession (ie. he could have played at Brum, sat at Reading, and played at Wigan at weekend. that to me isn't spreading him too thin and still allows him to ease into the league.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's just my opinion. No one here is going to change Rafa's plans, but it's nice to talk about it.

[Cardie]

Can you clarify your "other managers don't" comment? Do you mean that other managers don't play their best players or that they play their best players even when their not fit? not sure what you're going for there.

 

Other managers, as much as we'd love to pretend it's the case, do not decide on which trophy they'd most like to win and commit to playing their best 11 every game they are available as people are suggesting we do here.

 

secondly, weren't you at the meeting where we all agreed the league was our top priority this year? in my opinion Torres has made it abundantly clear that his is able to take the rigors of the prem'. I can't fault Torres for being on a mediocre team and not knowing what it's like to win trophies.

 

7 games, he's played 7 games. Now people may be all misty eyed after the Reading game but the reality is Torres is still learning, he hasn't come here and wowed us in every game, he's had Excellent games (Reading), Good games (Chelsea), mixed games (Villa) and bad games (Porto).

 

We, potentially, have one of the best strikers in the world on our hands, BUT, he's going to have bad spells this season and spells where he's ok but nothing out of this world. We've already seen that in the first clutch of game.

 

To link our future so tightly to the inclusion of one player is going to backfire when he's not available, or playing badly and you're going to get the usual numpties on here banging on like the sky is falling when it happens.