Going backwards

[silverlining]

Don't suppose anyone has noticed that Liverpool have conceded the same number of goals as the mancs, that team 5 points clear on top. Having Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez makes a huge difference. BR sounds confident about funds in January, let's hope so.

 

Agreed, but RVP, Rooney and Hernadez cost £60m. Have we got that much?

 

And even if we did, we'd never be able to sign a player like RVP.

 

And finally, United have been fucking APPALLING defensively. I don't think it's anything to aspire to. It's like when people keep pointing out how "rubbish" United's centeral midfielders are, as if the first step to aping their success in the Premiership was to buy some crap midfielders.

[kalasoma]

I think Rodgers said after yesterday's match on MOTD that we passed the ball too much. Now if that means players are passing instead of taking the opportunity to shoot when we're in front of goal, then isn't that his problem to resolve with the players?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Don't suppose anyone has noticed that Liverpool have conceded the same number of goals as the mancs, that team 5 points clear on top. Having Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez makes a huge difference. BR sounds confident about funds in January, let's hope so.

 

Fair point, that is.

[piscinin]

Don't suppose anyone has noticed that Liverpool have conceded the same number of goals as the mancs, that team 5 points clear on top. Having Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez makes a huge difference. BR sounds confident about funds in January, let's hope so.

 

But united have had 1/2 their defence out this season, so the comparison isn't as flattering as it at first sounds.

[The Guest]

Don't suppose anyone has noticed that Liverpool have conceded the same number of goals as the mancs, that team 5 points clear on top. Having Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez makes a huge difference. BR sounds confident about funds in January, let's hope so.

 

What are you on about you nutter?

 

Forget about strikers, we need to spend what money we have on signing some defensive midfielders. With Lucas out we're fucked.

 

If he was playing or if we had a suitable replacement we wouldn't have conceded any of those stupid goals leaving us with 0 against and a lot more points.

 

Come on. What do you think is more realistic, signing some forwards and scoring more goals than we are to win games or aiming to concede no goals all season?

[Whelan]

But united have had 1/2 their defence out this season, so the comparison isn't as flattering as it at first sounds.

 

Reina, Johnson, Enrique, Kelly, Agger and Skrtel have all missed matches this season for us! Add in our only Defensive minded midfielder missing the season (Silverlining is right we do need another one) and we will struggle.

 

It isn't a comparison - Chelsea and City have let goals in as well, in fact the whole league seems far more open and less defensive.

[Rambo]

Agreed, but RVP, Rooney and Hernadez cost £60m. Have we got that much?

 

And even if we did, we'd never be able to sign a player like RVP.

 

And finally, United have been fucking APPALLING defensively. I don't think it's anything to aspire to. It's like when people keep pointing out how "rubbish" United's centeral midfielders are, as if the first step to aping their success in the Premiership was to buy some crap midfielders.

So they cost about the same as Carroll, Downing and Henderson?

Worse United team I've seen in years, yet they're top.

We can only sign mediocre players because, the odd great night apart, we have been mediocre since 1992. Unfortunately we have to start building from the bottom, like 1959 (I'm not old enough to remember that though!!)

Anybody who demands instant success is naive and clueless. It's not happening.

God bless the sky generation.

[piscinin]

Reina, Johnson, Enrique, Kelly, Agger and Skrtel have all missed matches this season for us! Add in our only Defensive minded midfielder missing the season (Silverlining is right we do need another one) and we will struggle.

 

It isn't a comparison - Chelsea and City have let goals in as well, in fact the whole league seems far more open and less defensive.

 

Vidic, smalling and Jones have played 5 games between them. Let's not pretend that's in anyway comparable to what we have faced.

 

And we spent 13m or whatever on a player who we were told could cover for Lucas. Was world class in the olympics in that role. We were told.

 

So sorry not buying the 'our defence ain't that bad' spin.

 

After watching 2 and 3 players all going for the same ball game after game. Watching 8 liverpool players in the box against newcastle, marking just four of theirs and seeing that somehow, inexplicably, one of theirs is unmarked. Seeing continuous counter-attack bummings. It all adds up to a bit more than agger and skrtel missing a couple of games.

[Whelan]

Vidic, smalling and Jones have played 5 games between them. Let's not pretend that's in anyway comparable to what we have faced.

 

And we spent 13m or whatever on a player who we were told could cover for Lucas. Was world class in the olympics in that role. We were told.

 

So sorry not buying the 'our defence ain't that bad' spin.

 

After watching 2 and 3 players all going for the same ball game after game. Watching 8 liverpool players in the box against newcastle, marking just four of theirs and seeing that somehow, inexplicably, one of theirs is unmarked. Seeing continuous counter-attack bummings. It all adds up to a bit more than agger and skrtel missing a couple of games.

 

He can 'cover' he can't replace!

 

Nobody is saying the defence isn't bad, I am simply responding to you allowing context to United's failings yet none to ours.

 

And Enrique hasn't missed a couple, either has Johnson or Kelly and Reina, and Lucas hasn't. Try and spin it anyway that you want - but his point was United are shit but compensate with their forwards something which we are not able to do - desperate to correlate all our defensive failings with Rodgers style of play you jumped on his comment and defended United's problems whilst completely ignoring the exact same argument for us. So you shouldn't be lecturing anybody on spin as you are guilty of exactly the same.

[silverlining]

So they cost about the same as Carroll, Downing and Henderson?

Worse United team I've seen in years, yet they're top.

We can only sign mediocre players because, the odd great night apart, we have been mediocre since 1992. Unfortunately we have to start building from the bottom, like 1959 (I'm not old enough to remember that though!!)

Anybody who demands instant success is naive and clueless. It's not happening.

God bless the sky generation.

 

United's team last season weren't great, but still threw away the title very narrowly. And they've added one of the best strikers in Europe to that team, as well as one or two other promising squad players.

 

And we don't need to "start from the bottom". We aren't at the bottom. Yet.

 

We have proven top quality performers like Gerrard, Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Suarez. We have some decent footballers who can improve and do a job at Premiership level like Allen, Shelvey and Enrique. We have some promising young players like Wisdom, Sterling, Suso and Assaidi. At least one of which should make it to the very top level.

[piscinin]

He can 'cover' he can't replace!

 

Nobody is saying the defence isn't bad, I am simply responding to you allowing context to United's failings yet none to ours.

 

And Enrique hasn't missed a couple, either has Johnson or Kelly and Reina, and Lucas hasn't. Try and spin it anyway that you want - but his point was United are shit but compensate with their forwards something which we are not able to do - desperate to correlate all our defensive failings with Rodgers style of play you jumped on his comment and defended United's problems whilst completely ignoring the exact same argument for us. So you shouldn't be lecturing anybody on spin as you are guilty of exactly the same.

 

There is a difference in scale between united and us. Be that as it may.

 

To what do you attribute 2 or 3 players going for the same ball game after game? Spin?

 

Why are there consistently unmarked players in the box even though they are outnumbered 2:1? An agenda?

 

Why do we have a DM who bounces off of players he's trying to tackle? Because of a distaste for hedge fund managers?

[kalasoma]

Could it be a combination of:

new formation/roles

new manager

dependence on very young players in the first team who make mistakes

or none of the above?

 

If the "DM" you refer to is Joe Allen, then I think I can answer that. He's not actually a DM.

[Whelan]

There is a difference in scale between united and us. Be that as it may.

 

To what do you attribute 2 or 3 players going for the same ball game after game? Spin?

 

Why are there consistently unmarked players in the box even though they are outnumbered 2:1? An agenda?

 

Why do we have a DM who bounces off of players he's trying to tackle? Because of a distaste for hedge fund managers?

 

Why don't you watch the match? You can clearly see Agger running into Johnson - there is your free player. So you put this down to the system - sorry but did we not ever concede from deadballs during the previous two seasons? I seem to remember City scoring from the same near post in two seperate matches last season!

 

2 or 3 players going for the same ball game after game! Spin? Yes actually, exagerated for affect - which moments are you talking about?

 

And your point about Allen is just risible - as is the crack about hedge fund manager, you (and loads of other 'fans') have made your mind up and have, and will continue to cherry pick incidents and arguments to criticise and support your theory.

[piscinin]

Why don't you watch the match? You can clearly see Agger running into Johnson - there is your free player. So you put this down to the system - sorry but did we not ever concede from deadballs during the previous two seasons? I seem to remember City scoring from the same near post in two seperate matches last season!

 

2 or 3 players going for the same ball game after game! Spin? Yes actually, exagerated for affect - which moments are you talking about?

 

And your point about Allen is just risible - as is the crack about hedge fund manager, you (and loads of other 'fans') have made your mind up and have, and will continue to cherry pick incidents and arguments to criticise and support your theory.

 

I watched all the matches. I watched Terry Unmarked. I watched Cabaye Unmarked. I watched Naismith unmarked. That's just the last 3 games. Maybe, oh he bumped into someone is good enough for you. But it don't cut it for me. Yes, mistakes happen, but when they happen every single game, you're deluding yourself if you don't think there is an issue.

 

I've made my mind up that our defending has deteriorated to about the level that Swansea were at last year. As I thought it would. The manager needs to fix this. That's what I've made my mind up about. If you want to read more into, go ahead.

[piscinin]

Could it be a combination of:

new formation/roles

new manager

dependence on very young players in the first team who make mistakes

or none of the above?

 

If the "DM" you refer to is Joe Allen, then I think I can answer that. He's not actually a DM.

 

Obviously, it's all of the above and more.

 

And yep, Allen is no DM that much is very obvious.

[Code]

When it comes to our attacking game we are getting something out of Suarez, apart from that its a bit grim.

 

Goalscorers in the league 12/13:

Suarez - 8

Sterling - 1

Gerrard - 1

Sahin - 1

Skrtel - 1

Own goal - 2

 

At the same stage last season we had these goalscorers.

 

Goalscorers in the league 11/12:

Suarez - 4

Carroll - 2

Adam - 2

Bellamy - 1

Gerrard - 1

Henderson - 1

Skrtel - 1

Own goal - 2

 

In the following 8 games though these chipped in until we had reached halway through the season.

 

Bellamy - 3

Maxi - 2

Suarez - 1

Gerrard -1

Johnson - 1

Skrtel - 1

Own goal - 1

 

and this is how it looked like at the time.

 

11/12:

6. Liverpool 19 9 7 3 24-15 34p

 

if we win our next 8 games we will top that with 2 points.

 

12/13:

13. Liverpool 11 2 6 3 14- 16 12p

 

11/12:

6. Liverpool 11 5 4 2 14-10 19p

 

and as people might notice we have conceded more goals already this season than what we did halfway throught the season last year.

 

 

One thing I wonder about though is what people think is acceptable pointwise after our first 19 PL games?

 

Hodgson got 25p, would that be acceptable this season?

 

10/11:

9. Liverpool 19 7 4 8 23-24 25p

[Whelan]

I watched all the matches. I watched Terry Unmarked. I watched Cabaye Unmarked. I watched Naismith unmarked. That's just the last 3 games. Maybe, oh he bumped into someone is good enough for you. But it don't cut it for me. Yes, mistakes happen, but when they happen every single game, you're deluding yourself if you don't think there is an issue.

 

I've made my mind up that our defending has deteriorated to about the level that Swansea were at last year. As I thought it would. The manager needs to fix this. That's what I've made my mind up about. If you want to read more into, go ahead.

 

That's what it is about, nothing else. Just your need to be proved right.

[piscinin]

That's what it is about, nothing else. Just your need to be proved right.

 

I'm not that insecure Whelan. But have it your way, those players were all marked and I'm inventing to look good on the internet.

[Whelan]

I'm not that insecure Whelan. But have it your way, those players were all marked and I'm inventing to look good on the internet.

 

I will! I have decided that is what you are doing ergo that is what you are doing.

[kalasoma]

Obviously, it's all of the above and more.

 

And yep, Allen is no DM that much is very obvious.

 

So "obviously" our issues are a combination of factors that is the problem. Joe Allen is playing in a role that he 'obviously' is covering while Lucas is out. But you also say that it's our defence that (compared to United's) is the problem. So I'm not sure I'm following your argument. Which one is it?

[piscinin]

So "obviously" our issues are a combination of factors that is the problem. Joe Allen is playing in a role that he 'obviously' is covering while Lucas is out. But you also say that it's our defence that (compared to United's) is the problem. So I'm not sure I'm following your argument. Which one is it?

 

It's obvious that you're making the mistake of assuming that there is a single cause. All of these things are contributing to us conceding almost twice as many goals as we did in the same games last year.

[xerxes]

A six game league unbeaten run, and an away draw at the home of the european Champions, doesn't seem too bad to me.

[kalasoma]

It's obvious that you're making the mistake of assuming that there is a single cause. All of these things are contributing to us conceding almost twice as many goals as we did in the same games last year.

 

I'm obviously aware that our problems are a number of factors. No mistake made here. But it appears that you had put our failings down to our defensive errors, making comparisons to United's defence, and their players being injured. At least, that's what I've gathered from your posts.

[piscinin]

I'm obviously aware that our problems are a number of factors. No mistake made here. But it appears that you had put our failings down to our defensive errors, making comparisons to United's defence, and their players being injured. At least, that's what I've gathered from your posts.

 

I was just pointing out that someone else's comparison that our defence was as good as a defence half of which is missing isn't really all that flattering.

[Bjornebye]

despite our league position i'm still more positive than i have been since we before realised carroll wouldn't be the beast we thought he would be for us. one or two additions in january and the further development of some of our young players will see us finish top 8 if not top 6. we weren't expecting top 4 realistically but progress is progress and i certainly see that in some of our play. still need the likes of downing and cole replaced true but we are not moving backwards. I know its easy to use the luck excuse but we have been very unlucky in so many games this season. once we get our rub of the green we will see us shoot up the table, confidence will flow through the players and all will be better.

if we had beaten chelsea this thread would not be on here - stop being fickle.