We're a shambles

[xerxes]

I commented how a few weeks ago how this club now tolerate mediocrity. It has a losers mentality, we don't aim to be the best any more and we have ready made excuses in place for when it doesn't happen. Arsenal, United, Chelsea never slip as low as we have in their 'transitional' periods. We have finished above both of those sides in the past 5years and as damn close as possible to the Mancs. Mediocrity is tolerated. The owners and the media preach patience; I think as a club we have been far too patient over the last 20years. 1 serious title challenge is not enough.

 

You and Trumo are right.

 

There was a time when "take each game as it comes" was a positive mantra. It meant that our attitude against Norwich in a league game would be no less than it would be in title deciding tussle with the Mancs.

 

Now it is used as an excuse to forget previous shortcomings. Rafa started it in his final season saying "We are only focussing on the next game", beccause it was much more appealing than looking at the last game. Kenny has been talking about working harder and sticking together,ignoring the fact that that has not been happening.

 

The team does need more investment. But it also needs a cohesive mental approach. That is why I do not think that our malaise is about new players who may quickly fall foul of our lazy ways, nor is it about the upheaval of a managerial change. It is about everyone doing their job.

[richster]

The only reason for Dalglish to be given another year is our hopeless romantic dream about the King saving us, and for the principle of continuity.

 

BAsed on what he shows from the sidelines, how he utilises the squad, how he assembled the squad, how players are being played out of position, how helpless he is from the sidelines when we are all watching someone tear us a new one. His use of fomations, his usage of Carra. How he asssembled a squad to play a football that does not fit them. It is all a shocking experience for any suppporter. For all we know, Kenny is not the one to blame entirely for the acqusitions last summer, but according to him, he has had the last word.

 

In my honest opinion, I think it looks like Kenny is trying to build i club for 1980. He pressconferences has changed a lot, and he clings onto excuses about thin squad, too many cupties and injuries , long term focus bla bla bla, and success in the cups.

 

This is not about unluck. What he does as a manager is not up to the sandard we require today. Although it hurts to say it, we need to stop living in our past, and build for the future.

[Lurtz]

Neil G's post is superb. It does seem simple when you look at it that way. Makes you wonder how we've ended up where we are.

 

Would love to pick up Hoilett in the summer but I've a feeling he'll go to one of the mancs.

[Bjornebye]

The only reason for Dalglish to be given another year is our hopeless romantic dream about the King saving us, and for the principle of continuity.

 

BAsed on what he shows from the sidelines, how he utilises the squad, how he assembled the squad, how players are being played out of position, how helpless he is from the sidelines when we are all watching someone tear us a new one. His use of fomations, his usage of Carra. How he asssembled a squad to play a football that does not fit them. It is all a shocking experience for any suppporter. For all we know, Kenny is not the one to blame entirely for the acqusitions last summer, but according to him, he has had the last word.

 

In my honest opinion, I think it looks like Kenny is trying to build i club for 1980. He pressconferences has changed a lot, and he clings onto excuses about thin squad, too many cupties and injuries , long term focus bla bla bla, and success in the cups.

 

This is not about unluck. What he does as a manager is not up to the sandard we require today. Although it hurts to say it, we need to stop living in our past, and build for the future.

 

 

 

no merit points for you mate , that spelling and grammar is shit.

[xerxes]

It is the signings that have done for us it's true. But the cluster-fuck signing was the Carroll one. It set the bar for all the others and yet Liverpool fans in general just mumbled a few platitudes over the Jan-May period of that year when he was already stinking the place out and showing his true level of ability - "he's not fit", "he needs to adapt", all the usual shite that you hear on here.

 

In truth, Kenny knew he had fucked up even by then. But he went all in, so he signed Stewie fucking Downing to supply big Andy that summer. It turns out that Stewie is actually really average. Who would have guessed it? Well, actually anyone who has watched Match of the Day a couple of times over the last ten years. So we heaped another £20M onto the £35M that had already gone onto the bonfire.

 

If the fans had been a bit more sceptical about Carroll a year ago we may not have had Downing in the summer and the situation may been resolvable. But most said nothing and disbelieved their own eyes, trusting that Kenny must have seen something in him to pay £35M. I think a lot are still in denial that we actually spent so much money on such a poor player. When you actually look at him play it's simply inconceivable that he could have cost so much money. It's grotesque and disturbing and so it's better to put thoughts on Andy Carroll into the part of the brain that doesn't do any thinking. That is, until the rage sets in.

 

Another excellent post.

 

Denial is a good phrase.

 

Our two forwards signed for £57m a year ago have scored 10 league goals this season - the same number as Grant Holt who was signed for £400,000.Something has gone horribly wrong. I do not believe that Holt is a more effective forward than Suarez and Carroll in the PL. I do not believe that Suarez has been unlucky hitting the post - a miss is a miss.

 

All three are relative newcomers to the PL and need coaching to succeed - which one has been coached best?

[Bjornebye]

Neil G's post is superb. It does seem simple when you look at it that way. Makes you wonder how we've ended up where we are.

 

Would love to pick up Hoilett in the summer but I've a feeling he'll go to one of the mancs.

 

 

yeah i'd love hoilett as well. I reckon he is a possibility....

 

sturridge has gone quiet at chelsea, i reckon he could do a decent job for us. and victor moses....

[Bjornebye]

Neil G's post is superb. It does seem simple when you look at it that way. Makes you wonder how we've ended up where we are.

 

Would love to pick up Hoilett in the summer but I've a feeling he'll go to one of the mancs.

 

With Blackburn's talented young Canadian winger, Junior Hoilett, out of contract in the summer, Rovers boss Steve Kean has admitted the club will be powerless to prevent him leaving. "I don't think we can prevent that," said the Scot this week, so we've dug out six clubs Hoilett's most likely to line-up for next season...

 

Liverpool

Liverpool have struggled for goals this season despite some impressive performances and, since Dalglish has spent more than £100m on transfers already, the club's owners will be keen to recruit top talent cheaply this summer. That makes wide man Hoilett - heavily linked with Liverpool this year and available for free - an ideal target, particularly because Stewart Downing has been mostly ineffective out wide.

 

Spurs

With disgruntled South African international Steven Pienaar on loan and Croatia's Niko Kranjcar both set for the White Hart Lane exit door, Mr Redknapp will be searching for talented young players harnessing the required potential to flourish in Tottenham's wide positions. Along with Liverpool, Spurs are said to be long time admirers of Hoilett, while his free transfer tag will have frugal chairman Daniel Levy rubbing his hands together in excitement.

 

Arsenal

Another financially astute Champions League-chasing club, the Gunners operate with a system that favours pacey wide men, like Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, who share Hoilett's potency on the counter attack. Although the Ox has sparkled as an emerging bit-part youngster, Walcott's inconsistency continues to sharpen the focus on his dwindling potential, suggesting a move for Hoilett as a long term replacement for Samir Nasri.

 

Newcastle

The Magpies' canny policy of recruiting players expected to gain value has resulted in the likes of Tim Krul, Yohan Cabaye, Hatem Ben Arfa and Demba Ba all linked with big money transfers away from the club, having arrived on Tyneside for relative peanuts. Expect plenty more next season starting with a move for Hoilett, who may decide linking up with Pardew and co. would provide him with more first-team action than Arsenal, Spurs or Liverpool.

 

Bayern Munich

In February 2012, speculation surfaced reporting Hoilett would snub any Premier League offer in favour of a move to Germany, where he's previously spent time on loan with Paderborn and St Pauli. It's thought the Canadian-born winger's agent has already held talks with Munich giants Bayern over a proposed £40k-a-week deal, that would see him more than double his current Blackburn contract.

[richster]

no merit points for you mate , that spelling and grammar is shit.

 

How about giving some comments on what I wrote? Based on what I read in here, the grammatical level is already appauling. Personally, my excuse is that English is not my first language. Not even my second, and I do not live in an Englishspeaking country.

 

Regardless, I wrote it rather quickly, and I will make sure it is more up to your standards in the future.

 

I do however, expect snidey comments like that to be followed by an actual response.

[Bjornebye]

How about giving some comments on what I wrote? Based on what I read in here, the grammatical level is already appauling. Personally, my excuse is that English is not my first language. Not even my second, and I do not live in an Englishspeaking country.

 

Regardless, I wrote it rather quickly, and I will make sure it is more up to your standards in the future.

 

I do however, expect snidey comments like that to be followed by an actual response.

 

muy apreciada

[The Acolyte]

The club is a shambles and the majority of the fans are stuck in a time warp.

This "We are Liverpool" cobblers doesn't mean shit to the modern day player, its how much are you willing to pay me. The fans who didn't respect the shift Lucas put in look like right mugs now and shame on the coach and managment staff for not addressing it as we have been constantly overun in midfield since. The shifting around of Gerrard (who's form has been patchy to say the least) to accomodate the likes of Adam, Henderson, and Spearing has left the link between the midfield and attack without a recognised leader as Adam is too damn slow or creative enough.

I'm sorry but I didn't want Kenny as I didn't want his good name soiled if things went pear shaped. His signings have put him in a impossible situation. He drops/sells the majority of them he's admitting failure, which he doesn't do, stick with them and he will get sacked. I wouldn't trust him with any more money and I just don't think he can attract top class players.

FSG aren't afraid to get rid of managers, they sacked the Red Sox coach who had won the World Series for them twice because of one bad MONTH.

They admitted to not knowing anything about football when they arrived I bet they know a fair bit now! Like how much missing out on a CL position can put a teams development in limbo and more importantly for them, means that lost revenue will have to be sublimented from elsewhere if the void between us and a CL place is to be realised.

I've noticed that foreign investors do not seem to handle the team being badly beaten/humiliated on live TV as well as the owners of yester year. Could be because there is more at stake then 20+ yrs ago, or it could be they weren't there when that team was whipping their local rivals, so can't take the rough with the smooth.

If we get humilated at Wembley (and the way we are playing its possible) I can see FSG hitting the panic button and getting rid of Kenny before the end of the season and getting someone else in asap so the summer is not wasted searching for a new manager whilst possible targets get snapped up all around us and another season is wasted.

 

Rant over, as you were.

[Captain]

There is no chance of FSG sacking Kenny during the season. None.

[cmuller]

yeah i'd love hoilett as well. I reckon he is a possibility....

 

sturridge has gone quiet at chelsea, i reckon he could do a decent job for us. and victor moses....

 

Add to this you think Carroll and Downing will "rightly be here next season"....?

[Bjornebye]

Add to this you think Carroll and Downing will "rightly be here next season"....?

 

yes what's your point?

[richster]

muy apreciada

 

Still no response...

 

What is your role in here, mate? You seem not to respond properly to anything, but rather pick on people...

[Jairzinho]

Carroll and Downing will be here next season and rightly so. We won't recoup nearly as much as we spent on these and I think they can improve. Downing with confidence (and some fucking shooting practice) and Carroll again with confidence and some service (and a haircut)

 

Adam isn't good enough and neither is henderson. Maxi, Kuyt, Carra, Aquilani, Aurelio and Cole should also go.

 

replaced by 2 or 3 of the youngsters and then a decent centre midfielder that will allow gerrard to get forward, a right winger who can cross and a clinical striker.

 

They're fucking shit, so need to be sold.

 

Don't really care if our wide players can cross or not. I want them to be quick, skillful, intelligent, a good passer, and capable of scoring the odd goal.

 

The number nine we sign in the summer shouldn't be someone that relies on people humping the ball into the box.

[The Acolyte]

There is no chance of FSG sacking Kenny during the season. None.

 

So I just imagined them doing that to Hodgson then?

[Bjornebye]

Still no response...

 

What is your role in here, mate? You seem not to respond properly to anything, but rather pick on people...

 

 

I was simply pointing out that you need to put some work into your spelling and grammar.

 

I also don't agree with your points about Kenny and think he deserves more respect than you are showing him.

 

the players are as much to blame.

[aws]

The solution is staring us in the face. We need to get back to what we know works for us, namely the system we played at the end of last season. Most of the players are still here. I'm not having it that Raul Meireles and Maxi Rodriguez are the only two professional footballers on the planet that can make it work.

 

Next season, go back to playing two defensive midfielders who can impose themselves on the game and use the ball well (Lucas plus a new signing, with Spearing as backup) and a mobile front four that can score goals and have good pace, movement and workrate. For midfield, if we don't have a lot of cash, Flamini and Diame would both be perfectly good signings on a free. Gerrard can play the advanced midfield role that Raul did, it's still his best position. Bellamy and Downing could both fit into the system just fine, and Dirk can reprise his role when needed. I'm assuming Maxi will be gone.

 

Spend the bulk of our budget on a clinical striker and a winger who can also work in this system and we'll have 7 players vying for the front four positions. We don't have to spend megabucks, there must be plenty of players out there in the £15-20m bracket who'd fit the bill. If there's still money left, augment them with a couple more smart Bosmans (Hoilett / Farfan / Rodallega / Pogrebnyak) and the squad will be even stronger. Give Sterling and Teixeira a shot wherever possible and things could look better still.

 

We saw plenty of signs even in the first half of this season that we were capable of carrying on the form and the style of last season. We played some great stuff against Arsenal, Bolton, Wolves, Norwich, Chelsea, Man City and Villa, and also in the Carling Cup. We just needed a couple more players who could put the ball in the net. Instead, the fact that we're so incapable of killing teams off has gradually eaten away at our confidence to the point that we now don't believe we can get back into the game when we go behind, as Dave said in his match report. Once that self-belief and composure goes you start to see all the shit we're seeing now – misplaced passes, poor decision-making, lack of incisive movement, fluffed shots, sitting off the opposition, failing to show for the ball, the defence shitting itself under pressure, the lot.

 

There's no reason why we can't get back to where we were a year ago, absolutely none at all. It's just a question of whether Kenny sees it the way most of us to do, and if not whether anyone – Clarke, Comolli, even one of his mates like Hansen – has the balls to challenge him to do it.

 

If he doesn't, and if whatever approach he decides to use instead doesn't pay dividends next season, then he has to go, because he'll have shown that he hasn't learned from his mistakes and so almost certainly never will. Once a manager reaches that stage there's no reason to keep him on, whoever he is. I'm desperate for Kenny to see sense and sort it out, but I have a horrible gut feeling that it's not going to happen.

 

I agree with most all of that but I do think we might have to do a bit more "re-modelling" of the team and raise some cash (or cut the wage bill) to pay for it.

 

We should get rid of Cole, Aquilani, Aurelio, Maxi and Jones. We should get £5m for Aquilani but the biggest benefit would be saving £15m or so of wages every year without making hardly any impact on the quality of the squad. No need to replace any of them.

 

I'd also sell Kuyt (legs have gone) and Carroll (better than he's shown but we're not really going to build a team around him, are we?) and one of Adam/Johnson/Henderson to raise more funds.

 

I'd have thought FSG would stump up some cash if we can slash the wage bill so there should be money available to buy three players who won't be world or title class (let's call them "Spurs class") but should be good enough to help us challenge for CL again. We'd need a CM, (pacy) RM and striker.

 

We'll almost certainly need a new keeper but the cash we get for Reina should cover that. We also need a new centre-back but that might have to wait and we can pray that Agger stays fit ot that Coates is ready to step up.

[xerxes]

If we get humilated at Wembley (and the way we are playing its possible) I can see FSG hitting the panic button and getting rid of Kenny before the end of the season and getting someone else in asap so the summer is not wasted searching for a new manager whilst possible targets get snapped up all around us and another season is wasted.

 

I disagree.

 

The prestige and history of winning the FA Cup will be far more important to Kenny than it is to FSG.

 

The beaten finalists get prize money of fractionally more than one PL place, the winner the equivalent to just over two places.

 

The League Cup and Europe have already (rightly) guaranteed Kenny's position for next season.John and Linda will have a nice day out (maybe two) in London whatever happens. Humiliation is felt in Walton and Crocky - not Boston.

[Christian]

I agree with most all of that but I do think we might have to do a bit more "re-modelling" of the team and raise some cash (or cut the wage bill) to pay for it.

 

We should get rid of Cole, Aquilani, Aurelio, Maxi and Jones. We should get £5m for Aquilani but the biggest benefit would be saving £15m or so of wages every year without making hardly any impact on the quality of the squad. No need to replace any of them.

 

I'd also sell Kuyt (legs have gone) and Carroll (better than he's shown but we're not really going to build a team around him, are we?) and one of Adam/Johnson/Henderson to raise more funds.

 

I'd have thought FSG would stump up some cash if we can slash the wage bill so there should be money available to buy three players who won't be world or title class (let's call them "Spurs class") but should be good enough to help us challenge for CL again. We'd need a CM, (pacy) RM and striker.

 

We'll almost certainly need a new keeper but the cash we get for Reina should cover that. We also need a new centre-back but that might have to wait and we can pray that Agger stays fit ot that Coates is ready to step up.

 

Really good post - I was waiting for an aws post as it always settles me down a bit. Agree with all fella.

[TheResonator]

We are, regrettably, reaping the rewards of our 'back to British' policy. When Rafa's Liverpool were falling behind, there was a clamour for an English manager and a transition away from the Spanish and South American blood in the team. It started in the press and filtered through to the fans, at first with Hodgson and Cole and then Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll, and Bellamy. We are now looking at a team the spine of which is British. We are a quintessentially British team.

 

The problem with being that kind of team is that British football is not successful. As in most forms of popular culture, intelligence in football is no longer prized by the general public -- nor, really, is character. Everything has to be flashy and entertaining, so we focus on bringing the strongest and the fastest through the academies. We look for players who can make a 40 yard pass, beat a man at the byline through pace, or score a screamer from outside the area. Things like setting the pace of a game, good positioning, and other forms of craft, guile, and basically match intelligence are secondary. It's what we get on TV and in the papers and it's what's in our football. We're the 'made in Chelsea' of international football.

 

That's not to say that there aren't any good British players, just that most of the good British players come out of the same mould: powerful, good engine, good technique. Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand... all good players, all more or less the same attributes. You compare that to the Spanish teams of recent years. They've got pace up top from players like Villa and Torres, strength in Llorente and Pique, guile in Silva, intelligence in Xavi, and a bit of everything in Iniesta. They are composed of all types and they are rightly dominating the international football scene. In the English setup where is our guile? Where is our intelligence? Where is our trickery? They're all absent, because all of our players, fundamentally, tick more-or-less the same boxes.

 

You can see the same things in the players we've brought in. Henderson: good engine. Carroll: big. Adam: technique. Downing: fast. None of them are clever. They don't have the nous to play good football because it's not what we value in our academies. The most athletic make it and they are seldom the most intelligent, simply because every footballer -- of necessity -- plays to their strengths, and if you're smaller, slower, or weaker, you've got to be cleverer. Unfortunately, I get the impression that those sorts of players are rode roughshod over at youth level. You only have to read Gerrard's autobiography, in which he notes that Owen was a shoe-in for the Liverpool setup because he was fully grown by 12-odd, whilst even Gerrard was almost cast-out for being too small. How did those two careers turn out?

 

The best football we've seen in the last two seasons was played by Maxi, Suarez, Meireles, Lucas and Kuyt. They're not (all) the most technically or athletically gifted players, but they had the match intelligence to read the play and exploit the weaknesses of our opposition's defence. How many times have we seen Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam do that between them?

 

This is what happens when you load a team with British footballers, you get a set-up that looks and plays like the England team. Overhyped, cowardly, athletic but unintelligent, and ultimately unable to fulfil expectations. We are prey to our own limitations.

[Evil_Ways]

The only reason for Dalglish to be given another year is our hopeless romantic dream about the King saving us, and for the principle of continuity.

 

BAsed on what he shows from the sidelines, how he utilises the squad, how he assembled the squad, how players are being played out of position, how helpless he is from the sidelines when we are all watching someone tear us a new one. His use of fomations, his usage of Carra. How he asssembled a squad to play a football that does not fit them. It is all a shocking experience for any suppporter. For all we know, Kenny is not the one to blame entirely for the acqusitions last summer, but according to him, he has had the last word.

 

In my honest opinion, I think it looks like Kenny is trying to build i club for 1980. He pressconferences has changed a lot, and he clings onto excuses about thin squad, too many cupties and injuries , long term focus bla bla bla, and success in the cups.

 

This is not about unluck. What he does as a manager is not up to the sandard we require today. Although it hurts to say it, we need to stop living in our past, and build for the future.

 

A bunch of nonsense, basically.

 

The only reason he deserves another year is a hopeless romantic dream ?

 

Not because we have won our first cup since 06 and still in with a good chance of a cup double. The fact that we have played better than the points we have to show for it seems lost on you aswell. I know at the end of the day it's the points that count, but not even a blind fucking moron could deny we have indeed deserved alot more from a big number of games this season, we havent been clinical enough, it's not Kenny out there finnishing the chances, it's our players bottling it infront of goal. Or the fact that other circumstances have been against us all season, Gerrard injured for the vast majority of games, the whole Suarez situation, Agger being made out of glass, Lucas tearing his ACL...

 

What i'd agree with is that he (along with Comolli) have got half the signings wrong and that have certainly cost us. But at the same time the other half have been good signings, so it's not as if they cannot get it right. It's about learning from the mistakes and moving on from them. And if anyone deserves time at Liverpool it's Kenny.

[Captain]

So I just imagined them doing that to Hodgson then?

 

There are two things to take into account which make your comparison of Hodgson and Kenny meaningless. First of all, Kenny was appointed by the current owners, not an incompetent cuntmuppet served up by the previous regime.

 

Secondly, there is the small matter of winning us our first cup in six years this season.

[aws]

Good post from TheResonator.

 

"This is what you get when you fuck a Spaniard in the ass".

[Captain]

no merit points for you mate , that spelling and grammar is shit.

 

I was simply pointing out that you need to put some work into your spelling and grammar.

 

I also don't agree with your points about Kenny and think he deserves more respect than you are showing him.

 

the players are as much to blame.

 

No merit points for you mate, you need to start your sentences with capital letters.