Racism

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

If this is the case, they should not investigate Capitol Police, they should investigate FBI and other federal agencies, who deliberately did nothing because they wanted the pro-Trump mob, consisting of far-right supporters (who they somehow already identified as a the greatest national security threat despite obviously being in cahoots with them) to take over the Capitol and stage a coup. 

Which is likely the case. Look at all the tricks Trump pulled and the lies he came out with throughout the whole election debacle. Only takes him to have had a word with some of the heads of these agencies to take a cotton wool approach to the coup that was pre-arranged. Most Republicans would happily have seen that coup half the senate vote and see Trump remain in power because they believed his lies about election rigging. 

 

How did we get to this from the Osage Avenue bombing by the way? 

[TheHowieLama]

7 minutes ago, SasaS said:

If this is the case, they should not investigate Capitol Police, they should investigate FBI and other federal agencies, who deliberately did nothing because they wanted the pro-Trump mob, consisting of far-right supporters (who they somehow already identified as a the greatest national security threat despite obviously being in cahoots with them) to take over the Capitol and stage a coup. 

Mate - have a day off.

 

Read the reports of each of those agencies warning Trump admin of the very same.

They are investigating the CP. They are finding that the CP was ordered to react in a certain way - the CP did not make that call in the same way they did not make the call to "move" protestors from in front of the Church.

If you have any question in your mind about how/why it went down like it did refer yourself to the reaction of Trump as he watched it live - check the calls made to him from top GOP during that time. You couldn't be any more wrong and it feels like you are doing it on purpose tbh.

[SasaS]

33 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Mate - have a day off.

 

Read the reports of each of those agencies warning Trump admin of the very same.

They are investigating the CP. They are finding that the CP was ordered to react in a certain way - the CP did not make that call in the same way they did not make the call to "move" protestors from in front of the Church.

If you have any question in your mind about how/why it went down like it did refer yourself to the reaction of Trump as he watched it live - check the calls made to him from top GOP during that time. You couldn't be any more wrong and it feels like you are doing it on purpose tbh.

Ah, so it is not the Capitol Police who are the culprits anymore.

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Ah, so it is not the Capitol Police who are the culprits anymore.

Who said it was?

[SasaS]

41 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Which is likely the case. Look at all the tricks Trump pulled and the lies he came out with throughout the whole election debacle. Only takes him to have had a word with some of the heads of these agencies to take a cotton wool approach to the coup that was pre-arranged. Most Republicans would happily have seen that coup half the senate vote and see Trump remain in power because they believed his lies about election rigging. 

 

How did we get to this from the Osage Avenue bombing by the way? 

But the whole problem with that coup is that it does not look too organized or thought out through. Once the mob stormed the Capitol it became pretty evident there is neither the plan what happens now nor support for this, other than from Trump who wanted the election results null and void and / or him to be declared the winner on nobody knows what grounds. Storming of the Capitol was a major own goal.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

But the whole problem with that coup is that it does not look too organized or thought out through. Once the mob stormed the Capitol it became pretty evident there is neither the plan what happens now nor support for this, other than from Trump who wanted the election results null and void and / or him to be declared the winner on nobody knows what grounds. Storming of the Capitol was a major own goal.

You need to watch that ITV documentary, Storming the Capitol. 

[TheHowieLama]

Of course it was planned. The fact that the planning was done by muppets is why it turned out the way it did. 

[SasaS]

13 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Of course it was planned. The fact that the planning was done by muppets is why it turned out the way it did. 

It was definitely planned by the groups which were involved in storming, what I am still not convinced is how far up it actually went, in what detail. Where was the line between encouragement and planning. Because everyone had to be aware that once they enter the building, optics change, form the people demanding what they see is justice to mob storming the parliament. I don't think Trump and the nearest circle are that stupid or crazy to expect people would then start hugging in the streets because justice prevailed and some tiny but powerful cabal of Democrats and deepstaters would then hide or run away in defeat and the authorities would finally be free to round up some "Antifa" because they lost protection and that is that. I doubt that even the craziest QAnon supporters see the political divide in such phantastocal, simplistic terms.

 

But that is all maybe for another thread.

 

[TheHowieLama]

On 22/04/2021 at 20:15, TheHowieLama said:

That is so yesterday - today's was:

 

The Pasquotank County Sheriff's Office said Wednesday that one of its law enforcement officers had shot and killed a man while trying to conduct a search warrant.

A release from the sheriff's office said the shooting happened in the 400 block of Perry Street in Elizabeth City around 8:30 a.m.

"During the execution of the search warrant, a citizen who was the subject of the search warrant was shot and fatally wounded," the release said.

 

Demetria Williams, who identified herself as a longtime neighbor of Brown, said he was shot while driving away. 

“He was driving away! Away! Even though they were giving him a search warrant... why did y'all let off on him like that?” 

The Mayor of this town has declared a State of Emergency today prior to publicly releasing the body cam footage of this. They have also edited the video to show just one bodycam angle and only for a specific 20 seconds.

It is understood he has seen the footage. Doesn't bode well.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The Mayor of this town has declared a State of Emergency today prior to publicly releasing the body cam footage of this.

It is understood he has seen the footage. Doesn't bode well.

Oh great 

[Aventus]

Why does every single black person that gets shot by the police make the news? Media making it sound like cops are just going round popping off at blacks for no reason, meanwhile whites can commit any crime they want and police just give them a gentle tap on the head and politely told to behave themselves next time. 

 

It's dangerous what the media are doing right now, and I imagine more deaths will result from this. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Why does every single black person that gets shot by the police make the news? Media making it sound like cops are just going round popping off at blacks for no reason, meanwhile whites can commit any crime they want and police just give them a gentle tap on the head and politely told to behave themselves next time. 

 

It's dangerous what the media are doing right now, and I imagine more deaths will result from this. 

Do you believe that? 

 

Apart from that girl with the knife the other day, I haven’t seen any news reports about black people who are in the act of committing a violent crime getting shot.  Do you suppose that just isn't happening?  That Police aren't shooting armed robbers or whatever?  Or is it more likely that an incident like that doesn’t make national headlines, because it's within the realms of what the Police are expected to do.

 

When Police kill people who are innocent (or, at worst, suspected of having committed a petty crime, such as passing counterfeit money) then the media have a duty to report it, otherwise they are complicit.

 

Rest assured, when the Police kill innocent, unarmed white people, the media will report that, too.

[TheHowieLama]

46 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Why does every single black person that gets shot by the police make the news? Media making it sound like cops are just going round popping off at blacks for no reason, meanwhile whites can commit any crime they want and police just give them a gentle tap on the head and politely told to behave themselves next time. 

 

It's dangerous what the media are doing right now, and I imagine more deaths will result from this. 

Last year there were 1021 total shootings - out of those, 457 white - 241 black.

That is about the breakdown annually percentage wise if you go back the last few years. White folks make up @ 41% and black folks @ 24% overall - the total number is right around 1,000 each year.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 hours ago, Aventus said:

Why does every single black person that gets shot by the police make the news? 

 

9 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Last year there were 1021 total shootings - out of those, 457 white - 241 black.

It's fair to say that every black person who gets shot by police - 20 a month - does not make the news.

[SasaS]

11 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Last year there were 1021 total shootings - out of those, 457 white - 241 black.

That is about the breakdown annually percentage wise if you go back the last few years. White folks make up @ 41% and black folks @ 24% overall - the total number is right around 1,000 each year.

And if you are a black man, you are 30 times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a cop - that is my calculation according to all murders federal statistics.

I also remember reading police kill more people with mental health issues than they kill black people (may not be true). It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown, not just races but classes, income, age per group. Who are the whites getting killed, do they have more in common with blacks and other non-whites than they are divided by race. Also, armed - unarmed.

 

I have a feeling that would tell you most people getting killed are people perceived as some kind of underclass. But that would go against the dominant identity narrative. 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And if you are a black man, you are 30 times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a cop - that is my calculation according to all murders federal statistics.

I also remember reading police kill more people with mental health issues than they kill black people (may not be true). It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown, not just races but classes, income, age per group. Who are the whites getting killed, do they have more in common with blacks and other non-whites than they are divided by race. Also, armed - unarmed.

 

I have a feeling that would tell you most people getting killed are people perceived as some kind of underclass. But that would go against the dominant identity narrative. 

Well there are 19.9 million black men in America and 697,195 cops. Also factor in that a cops job is to preserve life not take it.... I'd say you've probably gone against whatever argument you are trying to make with that statement. 

[TheHowieLama]

Well, it is a strange point to make in a Racism thread that has become a discussion about police reactions. 

 

It is either a lame, limp attempt at justifying police action by obfuscation/whataboutism or a call for stricter gun regulation. 

[SasaS]

Interesting but understandable that you both focused on that part, and ignored all the rest. It has very much to do with how likely you are perceived to be a threat by law enforcement. Asians, however loose that category might be, are, as far as I recall, underrepresented in both murder statistics and in police killing numbers. You cannot look at police reactions in isolation and ignore all the rest. I was amazed that in Chicago, where there have been 500 or 600 murders a year for a decade, most of them black on black, the community, normally mostly numb to that, quickly mobilizes when there is a blue on black incident.

 

As Howie said, the annual number of police killings is stable. That means nothing much is changing. All the factors and conditions are still there. The current analysis is not good, it is just politicized. It only looks at what it wants to look. It is agenda furthering cherry picking. It is constant spin. Which ultimately, does not care about people's lives.  

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

As Howie said, the annual number of police killings is stable. That means nothing much is changing. 

It is interesting that in a thread centered around an issue that folks would talk about that issue, unless you are trying to get folks to stop talking about it and talk about something entirely different.

 

Yes, despite incredible focus (media and activists) and resources on this issue, nothing has changed. If you are really worried about another ethnicity you would do well to focus on Native Americans - they are killed at a far higher rate than anyone else.

 

If you are truly worried about black on black crime (which I have to be honest I don't think you are) then you need to work a little gun reform/legislation into your offerings.

 

[Strontium]

33 minutes ago, SasaS said:

It only looks at what it wants to look. It is agenda furthering cherry picking. It is constant spin. Which ultimately, does not care about people's lives.  

 

This is hardly unique to the situation in the United States, to be fair. Many people turn a blind eye to murders and associated atrocities until it provides them with an opportunity to get on their soapbox, at which point they turn into Care Bears.

[SasaS]

18 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

It is interesting that in a thread centered around an issue that folks would talk about that issue, unless you are trying to get folks to stop talking about it and talk about something entirely different.

 

Yes, despite incredible focus (media and activists) and resources on this issue, nothing has changed. If you are really worried about another ethnicity you would do well to focus on Native Americans - they are killed at a far higher rate than anyone else.

 

If you are truly worried about black on black crime (which I have to be honest I don't think you are) then you need to work a little gun reform/legislation into your offerings.

 

I think I was the first (and probably in this very thread) who mentioned Native Americans and their numbers, as I was the only one who tried to look at any numbers around police killings and policing in the US. And the numbers surrounding the economic position of racial minorities. 

 

The focus: that is indeed my point, the focus is (mostly) on wrong things. There are now too many people with agendas. Some good things will come from the focus, such as increased accountability for the police, but partially for the wrong reasons. Agendas will on the other hand, further polarize that society.

 

I am not "truly worried" about black on black crime, that is your typical straw man argument, it does not affect me directly, so I can afford to look at as part of the overall analysis, which I did.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

 

I have a feeling that would tell you most people getting killed are people perceived as some kind of underclass. But that would go against the dominant identity narrative. 

It doesn't. 

 

The "dominant identity narrative" is that black people in the USA are widely perceived as some kind of underclass. 

[Bjornebye]

15 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

This is hardly unique to the situation in the United States, to be fair. Many people turn a blind eye to murders and associated atrocities until it provides them with an opportunity to get on their soapbox, at which point they turn into Care Bears.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

55 minutes ago, SasaS said:

As Howie said, the annual number of police killings is stable. That means nothing much is changing. All the factors and conditions are still there. The current analysis is not good, it is just politicized. It only looks at what it wants to look. It is agenda furthering cherry picking. It is constant spin. Which ultimately, does not care about people's lives.  

The "current agenda" looks at the fact that Police are killing unarmed, non-threatening black people  (as they have, by your admission, for years & years) and decides that that should stop. I'm not sure why you think that needs any political spin.

[TheHowieLama]

22 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

The focus: that is indeed my point, the focus is (mostly) on wrong things. There are now too many people with agendas.

You believe the media highlighting certain police killings and the efforts of the BLM activists are wrong things?

They have an agenda?