Carra

[Whelan]

What has Agger done in his Liverpool career to suggest he is "far better" than somebody who is 2nd in all time appearance list then?

 

By that criteria Carragher is better than Kenny, Barnes, Souness, Gerrard and Hansen. He isn't, so it is a flawed argument.

 

Agger is a better footballer, but Carragher is a far, far better defender and therefore a far better centre half.

[dirk grout]

What has Agger done in his Liverpool career to suggest he is "far better" than somebody who is 2nd in all time appearance list then?

 

Hes not 34. When Agger is 34, I doubt he'll still be playing, and if he is he certainly won't be at the level carra is now. However, Agger is, at the moment, approaching his peak years as a player, carra is 34. The amount of appearances hes made have nothing to do with it. I take it you'll be having a go at anyone who would prefer downing in the side over barnes?

 

Edit. I should say that carra is actually 33, he turns 34 in jan.

[goatboy59]

ps

 

In his first stint Kenny dumped two of Lebron's top 12 defenders. Two people who had accompanied him on the greatest playing fields of Europe.

 

I shall trust his judgement.

[Whelan]

See again, I thought that was a game that the midfield and forwards should have had well over before the half time whistle.

 

But to be honest this is another roundaround subject isn't it?

 

I'll just say, old fashioned as I am, I'll wait to see what Kelly and Coates are actually capable of as centre halves before I pronounce judgement on Jamie Carragher's required retirement.

 

In all fairness they are two seperate arguments though! Kelly and Coates (and Wisdom's) ability is not the same as whether Carragher can and should play each and every week.

 

I see no reason to complain though, Brighton away followed by someone at home, is ideal to bring Coates into the team, but not necessarily at the expense of Carragher.

[dirk grout]

By that criteria Carragher is better than Kenny, Barnes, Souness, Gerrard and Hansen. He isn't, so it is a flawed argument.

 

Agger is a better footballer, but Carragher is a far, far better defender and therefore a far better centre half.

 

Not anymore he isn't. At his peak he certainly was. Agger has been pretty flawless so far this season.

[Juan Galonso]

Agger more popular?! He gets absolutely hammered on here, partly because of the injuries but mostly because he's far better than Jamie.

 

God help Kenny when he drops him, the abuse and slander is going to be horrendous!

 

When was he a promising centre half before he actually played there?

 

He came in to the side as a defensive midfielder then had spells at right/left back

 

He played there a lot in 98-99 John and had a good season despite being around Babb etc. He had a rocky start the year after with two OG against Man United and was then moved around until GH played him there at the end of 03-04 then he became a mainstay there under Rafa.

[Whelan]

Not anymore he isn't. At his peak he certainly was. Agger has been pretty flawless so far this season.

 

That is the question, but I really don't think 4 games into the season is the time to be making that judgement. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the penalty come from an area that was Agger's responsbility i.e. the left side of defence?

 

Not sure where Agger went to, and Agger (considering his ball playing is often lauded) gave the ball away quite a lot in the first half. If he plays consistently for us by Christmas I may reconsider but not now.

[zigackly]

I'll just say, old fashioned as I am, I'll wait to see what Kelly and Coates are actually capable of as centre halves before I pronounce judgement on Jamie Carragher's required retirement.

 

[...]

 

In his first stint Kenny dumped two [...] defenders [...] who had accompanied him on the greatest playing fields of Europe.

 

I shall trust his judgement.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[usernameunknown]

What has Agger done in his Liverpool career to suggest he is "far better" than somebody who is 2nd in all time appearance list then?

 

Played a lot better under Kenny than Carra has for us. Go and check the goals we've conceded with Agger and without him since Kenny got here. He's our best defender by a mile and makes a remarkable difference to us. Shame for us that his partner is giving away goals now mind.

 

Dont get all defensive, I havent said Agger is better than Carra ever was, he's just better than this version.

 

It speaks volumes that the only defence of Carra now is "but he shouts at fellow defenders" "He's made a load of appearances".

[dirk grout]

That is the question, but I really don't think 4 games into the season is the time to be making that judgement. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the penalty come from an area that was Agger's responsbility i.e. the left side of defence?

 

Not sure where Agger went to, and Agger (considering his ball playing is often lauded) gave the ball away quite a lot in the first half. If he plays consistently for us by Christmas I may reconsider but not now.

 

No. Agger was challenging crouch in the air, walters was carras man and he let him get away from him. That was the mistake. Don't think it was a pen but carra did make an error, no doubt.

[moof]

Played a lot better under Kenny than Carra has for us. Go and check the goals we've conceded with Agger and without him since Kenny got here. He's our best defender by a mile and makes a remarkable difference to us. Shame for us that his partner is giving away goals now mind.

 

Dont get all defensive, I havent said Agger is better than Carra ever was, he's just better than this version.

 

It speaks volumes that the only defence of Carra now is "but he shouts at fellow defenders" "He's made a load of appearances".

 

Aside from a lapse in concentration in injury time of a game where we were 3-0 up and that pen that wasn't a pen in the stoke game what exactly has Carra done that's so bad?

[usernameunknown]

Aside from a lapse in concentration in injury time of a game where we were 3-0 up and that pen that wasn't a pen in the stoke game what exactly has Carra done that's so bad?

 

Nothing, apart from starting a load of opposition attacks with his horrendous passing, he's just not as good as Agger. I know it's a crime to suggest so on here but hey.

[Durango]

He played there a lot in 98-99 John and had a good season despite being around Babb etc. He had a rocky start the year after with two OG against Man United and was then moved around until GH played him there at the end of 03-04 then he became a mainstay there under Rafa.

 

I don't dispute that,but sometime or another

 

Carragher had to be "baptised" to playing centre back,

 

it's a piss poor argument to say Kelly's unproven John

 

Every players "unproven" in a position until they've actually played in that position.

 

Kelly could be given a run of games at centre back and not up to the task,but we'll never find out if Kelly's up to the task until he's given a run of games

[moof]

Nothing, apart from starting a load of opposition attacks with his horrendous passing, he's just not as good as Agger. I know it's a crime to suggest so on here but hey.

 

Maybe if the midfielders presented him with an alternative option he wouldn't try to bypass them.

 

I think Agger's distribution is over-rated too. He's given the ball away plenty of times this season.

[usernameunknown]

Maybe if the midfielders presented him with an alternative option he wouldn't try to bypass them

 

Funny how the same midfield doesnt seem to stop Agger, Enrique or Reina from being able to pass properly. Has the guy got any faults or ever had a bad game in your opinion?

 

The Stoke goal wasnt a pen, the Bolton goal doesnt count as we were 3-0 up, his crap passing is the attackers fault. its a bit ridiculous isnt it?

[dirk grout]

Maybe if the midfielders presented him with an alternative option he wouldn't try to bypass them.

 

I think Agger's distribution is over-rated too. He's given the ball away plenty of times this season.

 

Come on mate, say what you like about the pairs defensive capabilities but aggers distribution is far better than carras.

Edited September 12, 2011 by dirk grout

[dirk grout]

Double post.

[moof]

 

From the stoke game

[Whelan]

that just proves that Reina is a better passer than Charlie Adam!

[BenR_]

In all fairness they are two seperate arguments though! Kelly and Coates (and Wisdom's) ability is not the same as whether Carragher can and should play each and every week.

 

I see no reason to complain though, Brighton away followed by someone at home, is ideal to bring Coates into the team, but not necessarily at the expense of Carragher.

 

At the expense of who, then?

Agger?

 

You'd drop Agger, who is very good so far this season, and keep Carra who's at direct fault for 2 thirds of the goals we conceded in the league this season?

 

Fuck me, I love Carra but Agger is a better CB at the moment and the appearances argument is just farcical, by that logic we should play Kenny ahead of Suarez.

And if one of Agger and Carra needs to be dropped to give Coates a chance to impress, it's got to be Carra.

 

Agger is a very, very good CB. Hate to see people actually giving our best defender shit to defend Carra.

[dirk grout]

 

From the stoke game

 

Fuck knows where you've got that shite from but the fact that they haven't even spelt carras name correctly calls into question their accuracy. My tip would be to use your eyes to see carra punting the ball hopefully forwards as opposed to looking for the short option, something agger is more likely to do.

[Whelan]

At the expense of who, then?

Agger?

 

You'd drop Agger, who is very good so far this season, and keep Carra who's at direct fault for 2 thirds of the goals we conceded in the league this season?

 

Fuck me, I love Carra but Agger is a better CB at the moment and the appearances argument is just farcical, by that logic we should play Kenny ahead of Suarez.

And if one of Agger and Carra needs to be dropped to give Coates a chance to impress, it's got to be Carra.

 

I didn't say drop Agger Ben! I said we have the opportunity to ease Coates in, and Carragher doesn't necessarily have to be the one to make way for both games!

 

I think Agger and Coates can play at home against Wolves, don't forget it is just as important to help Coates adapt, and Carragher is much better at that than the other two are.

[BenR_]

Nice to see Bellamy with 100%, by the way. Looked very sharp and match fit. Would like to see him start vs Spurs.

 

Off topic, I know.

 

I agree Whelan and I'd like to see that.

Maybe we can start Carra and Coates against Brighton, give Carra a little rest from the league and also give Coates his debut in a fairly low-stakes match and see how he does, and if he does well he can start alongside Agger against Wolves.

[moof]

Fuck knows where you've got that shite from but the fact that they haven't even spelt carras name correctly calls into question their accuracy. My tip would be to use your eyes to see carra punting the ball hopefully forwards as opposed to looking for the short option, something agger is more likely to do.

 

Ah the old "stats are meaningless because I watch football with my eyes."

 

I'm just trying to present an alternative opinion, the completion percentage for Carragher and Agger is pretty close.

 

I don't see Carragher "punting the ball hopefully forwards" if there are better options available to him.

 

It's from anfieldindex btw, not sure if they're reliable but they get their info From eplindex and i have no reason to doubt them.

[moof]

Funny how the same midfield doesnt seem to stop Agger, Enrique or Reina from being able to pass properly. Has the guy got any faults or ever had a bad game in your opinion?

 

The Stoke goal wasnt a pen, the Bolton goal doesnt count as we were 3-0 up, his crap passing is the attackers fault. its a bit ridiculous isnt it?

 

Of course he has bad games, everyone does. I'm saying I wouldn't drop him until he starts being worse than our other defenders, which he isn't yet. Imo