Steven Gerrard doesn't rate Benitez according to Graham Beacroft

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Because Rafa forced Alonso out and he has seen the quality in the squad get weaker by the year at the same rate Rafa got his own players in.

 

Where do I collect my prize?

 

Stick yer finger up yer hoop, and have a poke sround - its in there somewhere.... RAFA BOUGHT ALONSO YOU ABSOLUTE GOBSHITE

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Fuckin hell, it's been ten hours since I last looked in, I've had a seven hour kip, tried to get it on with someone, been rejected by aforementioned someone, fiddled with myself, had a bath, gotten dressed and traveled to work and you lot are still at it?

 

As for my two pence worth, if it's a straight choice between Gerrard and benitez I'm afraid there's only one winner there, not saying I believe the whole hand rubbing incident happened mind.

 

I hope the dog forgives yer

[Royal Family]

Alan, they have to archive everything digitally for legal reasons for a couple of years

 

He may well have said what Stevie claimed, it was the "pleaded with him" bit that is being questioned

 

 

Oh come off it UEM. Your (repeated) response 'where did Tony say that' clearly implies, in my reading, that 'Tony didn't say that'. Now, if you had said 'Where did Tony use the word 'pleaded?' then you would have been giving a clearer and more explicit comment. Pleading was not me quoting him (the clue is the absence of quotation marks) - it's my reading and use, probably written in five seconds, and no doubt filtered through my imagination. Note I also used the word 'apparently' so I'd even qualified that statement. I'm happy to withdraw that word, but I think you're being a bit disingenuous here (to use your choice phrase) because that wasn't what you were asking, as it seemed to me. If you were, you were being very ambiguous.

 

The fact is that Tony and Rory Smith both reported Hicks ringing Benitez to ask him to change his mind and stay. I'm glad that you don't deny this any longer.

 

I also wonder why it matters to you to downplay that Hicks rang Benitez?

 

Finally, can you stop feeling so threatened when people have different information and different sources to you? Followers of this site know you have good contacts, care about the club passionately, and know many leading LFC journalists. I appreciate all of that. You don't need to feel so insecure. But it doesn't mean you are the only person who hears and talks about things: maybe, if you haven't yet done so, you should talk to Dave about what HE knows from at least one other completely independent source about Rafa meeting with Bettega, or Quilon and Juve?

 

Now, I don't need to defend my credibility or intentions to you, given noone questions yours, least of all me, but I would point out that I first posted on here in November 2008 that Keane was eager to go back to White Hart Lane (and was widely abused for it) AND I posted that Liverpool had borrowed emergency monies, which the recent accounts have confirmed. It's not a pissing contest, you know, and I'm more than delighted to defer to you on the vast majority of things LFC-related, but it doesn't give you carte blanche to trash others.

 

A little more humility and a little less arrogance from all of us would make for a far more agreeable forum, maybe one where we can concentrate on what matters rather than squabbling endlessly about semantics.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Royal Family

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Oh come off it UEM. Your (repeated) response 'where did Tony say that' clearly implies, in my reading, that 'Tony didn't say that'. Now, if you had said 'Where did Tony use the word 'pleaded?' then you would have been giving a clearer and more explicit comment. Pleading was not me quoting him (the clue is the absence of quotation marks) - it's my reading and use, probably written in five seconds, and no doubt filtered through my imagination. Note I also used the word 'apparently' so I'd even qualified that statement. I'm happy to withdraw that word, but I think you're being a bit disingenuous here (to use your choice phrase) because that wasn't what you were asking, as it seemed to me. If you were, you were being very ambiguous.

 

The fact is that Tony and Rory Smith both reported Hicks ringing Benitez to ask him to change his mind and stay. I'm glad that you don't deny this any longer.

 

I also wonder why it matters to you to downplay that Hicks rang Benitez?

 

Finally, can you stop feeling so threatened when people have different information and different sources to you? Followers of this site know you have good contacts, care about the club passionately, and know many leading LFC journalists. I appreciate all of that. You don't need to feel so insecure. But it doesn't mean you are the only person who hears and talks about things: maybe, if you haven't yet done so, you should talk to Dave about what HE knows from at least one other completely independent source about Rafa meeting with Bettega, or Quilon and Juve?

 

Now, I don't need to defend my credibility or intentions to you, given noone questions yours, least of all me, but I would point out that I first posted on here in November 2008 that Keane was eager to go back to White Hart Lane (and was widely abused for it) AND I posted that Liverpool had borrowed emergency monies, which the recent accounts have confirmed. It's not a pissing contest, you know, and I'm more than delighted to defer to you on the vast majority of things LFC-related, but it doesn't give you carte blanche to trash others.

 

A little more humility and a little less arrogance from all of us would make for a far more agreeable forum, maybe one where we can concentrate on what matters rather than squabbling endlessly about semantics.

 

Nice climb down, if a little lengthy

 

I take it your not going to email Tony then?

 

Btw, this photo?

[Code]

I believe he is fed up having to compensate for very average players around him. He is fed up making runs into space when the ball has little or no chance of getting to him. He is fed up of watching possession squandered, of him trying to step of the tempo of a game by zipping balls about and watching them get miscontrolled, playing passes into space that Torres would anticipate other players just don't have the speed of thought and feet to see and reach - having a static, predictable, sluggish, one paced style of play imposed on him by the limitations of technique, pace, imagination and intelligence of those around him. And then the burden of expectations on him that are completely unrealistic given the context.

 

He's too often been the thoroughbred amongst donkeys. This season it's got to him far more than previously.

 

That's what I believe. We'll see when the book comes out :)

 

Nothing to add.

 

Rafa though might claim it does not matter as long as the players have the right attitude,,,

[Code]

Stick yer finger up yer hoop, and have a poke sround - its in there somewhere.... RAFA BOUGHT ALONSO YOU ABSOLUTE GOBSHITE

 

Yes he did, but after he did, Alonso decided to speak out on behalf of Pako and he decided to stay home in Liverpool until the day before the birth of his first born when Rafa wanted him to come to Italy.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Don't like doing this, as he's big enough and ugly enough to look after himself, but he browses this board called me earlier today as he's bit upset at RF's claims, as he's adamant he said nothing like that.

 

He said if anyone is 100% certain, then to get in touch with him and he'll more than happily check the archive and come back to the person concerned directly.

 

 

 

Took you a while,but had a feeling it might be you who would catch on first.

 

The whole thing has been BS from the start of this thread.

 

Try and find the first mentioned talksport broadcast.Its Graham Beecroft who supposed to off said it.

 

Go back to begining and look at the people who claim to of heard this broadcast.

 

It will fall into place trust me.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Rafa got his own players in.

 

This is the part where you fuck up old boy... see Rafa may have upset your beloved Xabi - personally thought he was a great player, but I prefer the ladies - however this cannot detract from the fact that Xabi Alonso was bought by a Mr R Benitez C/O LFC, as was Luis Garcia, Pepe Reina, Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Tony the Nun, Aquilani, Yossi.... now without giving it the revisionist bullshit you delight in to slight the manager, we can agree there are a mix of players in the short list above from the sublime to the ridiculous - all brought in under Benitez.... some very very good, in fact some so good that grown men sing of their love for them. So to make a statement along the lines of things started to get shit when benitez starts bringing his own players in makes you look a fucking tosser.

 

I would imagine maybe 5% of supporters had any idea who xabi alonso or pepe reina were before they arrived at liverpool, I would of course count you in the 5% as you enjoy remidning everyone of your superior football knowledge, however it was Benitex who targetted and brought said players here... just as he brought in Aquilani, Leto et al.

 

You want to discuss shit, do it like an adult and don't make absolutely stupid comments such as that above.

 

All the above should be read in the incredulous voice of:

 

[Delmar]

It's his life. He's not a binman or an IT contractor. Is it really so difficult to understand that?

 

I'm not making excuses for him. I'm giving my view of what the problems are. I think they're exacerbated by the decreasing levels of respect he has for Benitez as a manager. I'm speculating obviously...

 

What then is a binman's or IT contractor's life? I look at Gerrard and I see a hugely talented football player, that's all, not a Mother Teresa reincarnation.

 

Your view of the problems sounds like excusing Gerrard. But I do agree that this season the team has been playing with little enthusiasm, also others than Gerrard, and that is a clear sign of problems. The manager's style has not helped there, neither has Gerrard's. In fact, if you combine an uber tactician with a bored looking grump as the two most influential figures as far as football goes, all you get is bored grumpy chess pieces. We've looked like that a lot lately.

[smicer07]

After the season he's had, I wouldn't be too arsed if Gerrard went.

[JohnnyH]

After the season he's had, I wouldn't be too arsed if Gerrard went.

 

But this is the thing. Unlike some, I don't judge people on one season, and therefore I wont judge Rafa and Stevie solely on this season. A lot of people say that Stevie is allowed a bad season and it's not fair to just judge him on this season, and I 100% agree with that. It doesn't seem to apply to the manager though. With some comments you'd swear Benitez had only been here one season.

[Kennys_spell]

I don't know why you give that prick the time of day. If he is too thick to interpret Dave's post, leave him dangling in his own tedious stupidity. I wish there was a way of turning off his turgid, brain-numbing, repetitive shite when people quote him.

 

Now thats a very strange comment - have you read the thread and particularly my posts?

 

Try reading the post where I said that I had interpreted his post and I then simply asked him one question to try to confirm what my interpretation was. I hadn't realised that sort of action was considered "Thick". Perhaps if I had interpreted it and then presented my interpretation of his post as 'Fact' I'd be accepted as one of the boards cognoscenti?

 

I'll give it a try in the future - or maybe not.

[Guest The Chimp]

But this is the thing. Unlike some, I don't judge people on one season, and therefore I wont judge Rafa and Stevie solely on this season. A lot of people say that Stevie is allowed a bad season and it's not fair to just judge him on this season, and I 100% agree with that. It doesn't seem to apply to the manager though. With some comments you'd swear Benitez had only been here one season.

 

I think the issue is that some don't see this season as the only blip on his record Johhny, and would in fact point to large swathes of his tenure as simply not good enough. I guess whatever side of that debate you're on largely dictates whether you want him gone or not.

 

As for Stevie (and for some this can also be applied to Benitez I dare say), we genuinely won't appreciate just how good he was until he's not here anymore. An absolutely fantastic player. Really, if anyone needs reminding dig out a DVD get yourself on You Tube. He's fucking sublime at times.

Edited May 13, 2010 by The Chimp
poor typing

[Kennys_spell]

errm so who's leaving now? Benitez? Gerrard? Both?

 

We're selling everyone - we'll then buy Deportivo de la Gobshite united, we'll be sponsored by Universal Catalogues and this will be our home shirt

 

http://www.premiershirts.net/wearthat/wearthatshirts/luton2.jpg

 

 

Ayre being such a wonderful businessman will then get us a second sponsorship deal for away matches with TDK

 

http://www.premiershirts.net/wearthat/wearthatshirts/Ajax.jpg

 

All the new players will be trained by the bloke of "Lemon studios".

[silverlining]

I think the issue is that some don't see this season as the only blip on his record Johhny, and would in fact point to large swathes of his tenure as simply not good enough. I guess whatever side of that debate you're on largely dictates whether you want him gone or not.

 

As for Stevie (and for some this can also be applied to Benitez I dare say), we genuinely won't appreciate just how good he was until he's not here anymore. An absolutely fantastic player. Really, if anyone needs reminding dig out a DVD get yourself on You Tube. He's fucking sublime at times.

 

Who is this weirdo with his balanced and considered posts?

 

Where's the swearing? Where's the frenzied speculation and sweeping statements?

 

Rubbish.

[Kennys_spell]

I think the issue is that some don't see this season as the only blip on his record Johhny, and would in fact point to large swathes of his tenure as simply not good enough. I guess whatever side of that debate you're on largely dictates whether you want him gone or not.

 

As for Stevie (and for some this can also be applied to Benitez I dare say), we genuinely won't appreciate just how good he was until he's not here anymore. An absolutely fantastic player. Really, if anyone needs reminding dig out a DVD get yourself on You Tube. He's fucking sublime at times.

 

Stevie with his head on is irreplaceable - distracted Stevie of this season doesn't contribute as much as we know he can and that's what hurts us as fans.

 

I wouldn't be making statements like "I wouldn't be arsed if he went" as people can improve performances massively given the proper motivation. Look at Alonso.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Kennys_spell

[dirty_sanchez]

Yes he did, but after he did, Alonso decided to speak out on behalf of Pako and he decided to stay home in Liverpool until the day before the birth of his first born when Rafa wanted him to come to Italy.

 

Yeah, a 50 year old man really is THAT childish.

[aws]

Finger rubbing? Moping? Shrugging shoulders? Head shaking? Eyebrow-raising?

 

Borg asserts that body language conveys 93% of non-written communication. Mehrabian is more consevative and estimates it in the region of 60-70%.

 

I'm more of a Mehrabian man myself.

[Guest The Chimp]

Stevie with his head on is irreplaceable - distracted Stevie of this season doesn't contribute as much as we know he can and that's what hurts us as fans.

 

I wouldn't be making statements like "I wouldn't be arsed if he went" as people can improve performances massively given the proper motivation. Look at Alonso.

 

I don't want to seem wishy-washy or the appeasement type, but genuinely there's absolutely nothing I'd disagree with in what you wrote.

 

This isn't a caveat to what I wrote above, but I do genuinely think we tend to take Gerrard far too much for granted and expect him to single-handedly dig us out of a whole at the drop of a hat. He can be his own worst enemy, in that his standards have been so high that he tends to get less leeway when he's off form than other lesser-players (and that's an awful lot of players). Additionally, as a captain we are able to contrast him with some pretty fantastic players from our most illustrious eras, times when we were dominant and things were better. You're entirely right in that distracted Stevie doesn't offer much in comparison to 'normal' Stevie, but the truth is that not many players (even when they're on the very top of their game) offer much compared to 'normal' Stevie.

 

Is he undroppable? No, but then again have we had the strength in depth to do so, and is a 'poor' (for his standards) Stevie, better than his replacements in the squad? Again, it's debatable with valid arguments on both sides.

 

 

As for "proper motivation", I'm not even going there fella as it opens up the whole "can Rafa get the best out of the players" debate - something which I'm sure you weren't getting at anyway, and which I've no real stomach or inclination to go into.

 

Opinions have become too entrenched on either side here anyway, that it's just attritional now rather than open, reasonable discussion.

Edited May 13, 2010 by The Chimp
poor typing again

[Guest The Chimp]

Who is this weirdo with his balanced and considered posts?

 

Where's the swearing? Where's the frenzied speculation and sweeping statements?

 

Rubbish.

 

You had me at "weirdo" handsome.

[RedKnight]

I don't know much about Tony Evans or his honesty, but I know the twat never sent me a copy of his book that I won on here. Is it like Oldham's book, does it even exist? Where's mah book?!

[Ted]

Send me one aswell. I need toilet paper.

[Redexile]

My comparison related exactly to his statement that it would be a bad thing to have the manager falling out with players. I proved that to be a completely false statement and gave the example of Ferguson with Beckham, Stam, Van Nistlerooy etc. At no stage during his claim or my reply was "them leaving in the same season" mentioned.

 

Which part of that do you consider having 'cornered' me on - or will you avoid this question?

 

Oh dear, oh dear.

 

You proved fuck all sofshite. The circumstances of the club they played for were completely different therefore you can't make the comparison that it's not always bad. If you can't or refuse to see that then fine. My claim was not that I cornered you but that in general when you are put on the spot you ignore the post and look for some easier pickings from another post.

 

QED GTF end of discussion.

[Redexile]

Character in Life of Brian?

 

 

Like Supercilious Soddus, sir, or Biggus Dickus.

 

 

Nailed it

[Captain]

I don't think many players barring Pepe can be proud of their level this season to be honest. It shows more with Stevie because he's the one pulling us out of the shit normally, but most of them have done their share of moping. Masch at least got it out of his system I suppose.

 

This might be damning with faint praise but I think Lucas has played to his level as well, in fairness.

 

I'd say Torres did well too, scored quite a few goals (18 goals from 20 starts in the league) despite suffering a lot from of injuries. I'd also say he's on par with the Captain when it comes to pulling us out of the shit.