Time to drop Gerrard?

[Paco]

This is not the answer.

 

He played in Kuyt to cross for the first goal and he got in two decent crosses for Torres to fuck up.

 

He's not undroppable but I don't believe he deserves to be dropped right now

[zico]

This.

 

Im a massive Gerrard fan and dont hold with lots of stuff I've read about him 'sulking' and not putting a shift in etc, etc.

 

The lad is probably the last of his kind to have carried the club, virtually singlehandedly over the years like McMoneyman, Fowler and Owen. You could probably have added Torres to that list but I've a growing suspicion the lad wont be here at the start of next season.

 

I think Gerrard like most of us, was heartbroken at missing out on the title last season. That's bound to be hard to get over even for a seasoned pro playing for 'your' club.

 

But, its clear Gerrard has been having groin trouble for sometime now. For whatever reason, he hasnt gone under the knife to get it properly sorted and instead, resorted to the needle for temporary fixes.

 

I still cant get my head around even considering dropping Gerrard. Would people do the same with Torres because he's allowing his tantrums albeit through frustration to take a lot away from his threat?

 

No, you simply dont drop your best players on a whim. There's also the effect it will have on the other players. Are they going to up their game because they see one of our best players being dropped? Dont think so. In fact I suspect it would have the opposite efect.

 

Who would step in to replace Gerrard, Spearing, someone else? Nah, aint going to happen.

 

I don't think it would be any worse than seeing the legend and captain of your team sulking, complaining and not giving it 100%, that would piss me off far more...... But if the other players also think we are a one man team then maybe you are right....

[ste1998]

I wouldnt drop him but it is time to move him into another area of the pitch that isnt the middle.

 

It was only for a short time yesterday but when he was moved out of the middle yesterday, he moved a heck of a lot better than he had done for the entire game up to that point.

 

I think when you have players like him, you need to mvoe them around the pitch to find the best area for them to be effective in that particular game. One day it may be right wing, another left wing and another might be CM.

 

 

Plus, how come nobody brought this up after the last 2 games we have played? Whenever the team plays poorly, for some reason everyone comes back to pointing out that Gerrard was in a mood.

Not to say I disagree because I have never spoken to him but I doubt overs on here are speaking to him on a daily basis either, so how would they know what mood he is in? Other than armchair Psychology which isnt always accurate.

[Stormbringer]

To me he looks like he is way off fit! If he has a long term problem he should be rested. He doesn't have the ground eating pace at the moment. He looks as frustrated at himself as much as at anyone else. With the season the way it is I would use him in the European games and give him a break in other games against lesser teams and give either AA his role or bring in Pacheco.

 

Playing on an injury at high level in sport is a sickening and frustrating feeling.

[piscinin]

Nah, I don't think Gerrard would ever undermine the team. And Torres has had plenty of moody games, being petulant and not seeming too interested. Don't forget, he hasn't been here long. Gerrard's been required to carry the team for years.

 

I just think it's all now a massive head-fuck for Gerrard, and I wouldn't begrudge him if he felt unable to go through another season of the same, should Benitez be staying.

 

Difference is Torres is still performing.

 

You're painting a picture of Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality which is difficult to reconcile because he's always played with players worse than him and he more than anyone should know all it takes is a micro-second of brilliance to win. Why give up so completely? To the point where even a 10 yard pass is a struggle? In my world you have to earn the right to blame everyone else and this season, that's not been the case.

 

If as you allude to, he has a problem with the manager and he's so wrapped up in it he can't perform, is he really someone who is going to perform given the adversity we know we are going to be facing over the next 5 years?

 

Maybe you're right, maybe going is best, but I think putting him on the right in a less taxing position where he can continually excel will start rebuilding his self-confidence which is clearly flagging and putting a dampener on his performances. Maybe then he can focus on the good and get into a virtuous circle.

[Torvald Utne]

I think rafa is scared of the massive blind loyalty amongst the fans for gerrard so won't drop him like he should have done a long time ago, he has been dire all season and the argument about having your potential matchwinners in the team doesn't wash with me because his shitty attitude, lack of effort and general all round shit play has fucked up so many attacking opportunities this season that he's cost us far more on his own than he could have won for us on his own. I'm fucking sick of him and want rid in the summer. Stevie Me indeed.

Edited March 22, 2010 by fungus

[zigackly]

Plus, how come nobody brought this up after the last 2 games we have played?

 

Personally I was hoping he had snapped out of it. It's clear he's been badly off form all season. For a time I thought that was because he was carrying an injury. When it became clear that isn't the case, I could understand and even forgive a bit of a sulk at the football we've been playing because of how good he's been in the past. But it seems clear at the moment that he's not going to wake up and start playing, so at some point he needs to be made to realise that he's a professional sportsman being paid huge sums of money to perform.

 

If we were earlier in the season I think dropping him would do a lot of good, as he might have been forced to address his shitty form in order to get a world cup place, but now I think we've left it too late and it would have negative impact.

 

I'm surprised at the number of people who think he's undroppable. That's a very dangerous situation because then he basically becomes bigger than the club.

[BolshieBastard]

I don't think it would be any worse than seeing the legend and captain of your team sulking, complaining and not giving it 100%, that would piss me off far more...... But if the other players also think we are a one man team then maybe you are right....

 

In your opinion he's sulking and not giving 100%. So you think this great disciplinarian that is Benitez hasnt spotted this 'attitude' in Gerrard and done something about it like dropping him?

 

Or do you think he knows something you dont like he's carried an injury \ injuries all season and playing through the pain barrier for the cause? You know, with him seeing him every day in training like?

 

Ludicrous.

[caracaracara]

drop him and give somebody a chance who does not care about the world cup.....oh shit we haven't got anybody.

 

OK drop the brazilian dud and drop him back into midfiled and give our J20m signing a chance.

[BolshieBastard]

Difference is Torres is still performing.

 

You're painting a picture of Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality which is difficult to reconcile because he's always played with players worse than him and he more than anyone should know all it takes is a micro-second of brilliance to win. Why give up so completely? To the point where even a 10 yard pass is a struggle? In my world you have to earn the right to blame everyone else and this season, that's not been the case.

 

If as you allude to, he has a problem with the manager and he's so wrapped up in it he can't perform, is he really someone who is going to perform given the adversity we know we are going to be facing over the next 5 years?

 

Maybe you're right, maybe going is best, but I think putting him on the right in a less taxing position where he can continually excel will start rebuilding his self-confidence which is clearly flagging and putting a dampener on his performances. Maybe then he can focus on the good and get into a virtuous circle.

 

Why do you insist on playing one player off against the other? Torres was nothing short of petulant yesterday. Once he got booked his effectiveness was reduced.

 

Maybe Torres' mind wasnt on the game when he got those two chances he'd normally bury with his eyes shut.

[piscinin]

Why do you insist on playing one player off against the other? Torres was nothing short of petulant yesterday. Once he got booked his effectiveness was reduced.

 

Maybe Torres' mind wasnt on the game when he got those two chances he'd normally bury with his eyes shut.

 

It's called compare and contrast. It's a debating technique not a fatwa.

[stringvest]

Difference is Torres is still performing.

 

You're painting a picture of Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality which is difficult to reconcile because he's always played with players worse than him and he more than anyone should know all it takes is a micro-second of brilliance to win. Why give up so completely? To the point where even a 10 yard pass is a struggle? In my world you have to earn the right to blame everyone else and this season, that's not been the case.

 

If as you allude to, he has a problem with the manager and he's so wrapped up in it he can't perform, is he really someone who is going to perform given the adversity we know we are going to be facing over the next 5 years?

 

Maybe you're right, maybe going is best, but I think putting him on the right in a less taxing position where he can continually excel will start rebuilding his self-confidence which is clearly flagging and putting a dampener on his performances. Maybe then he can focus on the good and get into a virtuous circle.

 

I'm not painting Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality. I think there's enough evidence in yesterdays game - that brilliant burst and pass to set up Torres goal, and the other chances he set up for Torres would suggest that he's not unable to make a 10 yard pass. No-one else in the team selected yesterday could have done that.

 

I don't think it's a lack of confidence in his own ability, far from it. It's a lack of confidence in the manager. Gerrard's more likely to stay - and more likely to perform to his potential - next season if Benitez goes imo. Putting Gerrard on the right only makes sense if you being in players who can take advantage of it as well. If Lucas and Kuyt are dropped, things will measurably improve with the team and with Gerrard, no matter which position he takes.

[BolshieBastard]

It's called compare and contrast. It's a debating technique not a fatwa.

 

Its nothing of the sort. Its let's bash Gerrard again.

 

Torres contribution yesterday was his superbly taken goal in which Gerrard had another hand.

 

From the penalty that wasnt award onwards, Torres allowed himself yet again to let tantrums get the better of him. This lessens his effectiveness and more importantly, his concentration.

 

Just about the only player in our team playing consistently well is Reina. But instead of recognising this general melee our players are producing, some people have to single out gerrard in particular as what's wrong with us and comparing his demeanor to that of Torres or someone else.

 

That isnt debate or comparision, its pure character assasination.

[piscinin]

I'm not painting Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality. I think there's enough evidence in yesterdays game - that brilliant burst and pass to set up Torres goal, and the other chances he set up for Torres would suggest that he's not unable to make a 10 yard pass. No-one else in the team selected yesterday could have done that.

 

I don't think it's a lack of confidence in his own ability, far from it. It's a lack of confidence in the manager. Gerrard's more likely to stay - and more likely to perform to his potential - next season if Benitez goes imo. Putting Gerrard on the right only makes sense if you being in players who can take advantage of it as well. If Lucas and Kuyt are dropped, things will measurably improve with the team and with Gerrard, no matter which position he takes.

 

We all know he can do it, it's that he can't do it consistently that's the problem here. For me, as accountable as Benitez is for the performance of the team, so is Gerrard for his individual performances. We can rationalize cause and effect however we want, but the ball is in his court. If he can't find a way to dig himself out of this hole, his legacy will be much diminished, which is a shame. He needs to get some therapy or hypnosis shit going on.

[piscinin]

Its nothing of the sort. Its let's bash Gerrard again.

.

 

Grow up kid.

[stringvest]

We all know he can do it, it's that he can't do it consistently that's the problem here. For me, as accountable as Benitez is for the performance of the team, so is Gerrard for his individual performances. We can rationalize cause and effect however we want, but the ball is in his court. If he can't find a way to dig himself out of this hole, his legacy will be much diminished, which is a shame. He needs to get some therapy or hypnosis shit going on.

 

As I say, a team selected to win games and retain possession will see Gerrard's performances improve markedly, in my opinion.

[spider-neil]

no.

 

a) he is the captain

 

b) even at his lowest he is still capable of turning the game with a moment of magic

[ste1998]

no.

 

a) he is the captain

 

b) even at his lowest he is still capable of turning the game with a moment of magic

Thats the thing. How close were we to:

 

Torres Hat Trick, Gerrard 2 assists and hand in all 3 goals, Liverpool 3-2 win.

 

In no way am I blaming Torres but if that happened, this thread would not have been started IMO.

[Redexile]

I think rafa is scared of the massive blind loyalty amongst the fans for gerrard so won't drop him like he should have done a long time ago, he has been dire all season and the argument about having your potential matchwinners in the team doesn't wash with me because his shitty attitude, lack of effort and general all round shit play has fucked up so many attacking opportunities this season that he's cost us far more on his own than he could have won for us on his own. I'm fucking sick of him and want rid in the summer. Stevie Me indeed.

 

You should save that away and some time in the future read it back and see how fuckin stupid it makes you look. Nobody is undroppable IMO but ask yourself this how many mangers out there would be happier facing us with him not available. I'll bet there are none.

[BolshieBastard]

Grow up kid.

 

Yep, you didnt disappoint me with your 'debating' prowess.

[old skool tom]

put him back in CM (in place of lucas who is shite in a four man midfield!) and play babbel up front with torres...............................babbels pace will mean more threat on counter attacks and opposition CBs will be woried so therefore it will give torres more freedom.

[ZonkoVille77]

I'm not painting Gerrard as someone with a victim mentality. I think there's enough evidence in yesterdays game - that brilliant burst and pass to set up Torres goal, and the other chances he set up for Torres would suggest that he's not unable to make a 10 yard pass. No-one else in the team selected yesterday could have done that.

 

I don't think it's a lack of confidence in his own ability, far from it. It's a lack of confidence in the manager. Gerrard's more likely to stay - and more likely to perform to his potential - next season if Benitez goes imo. Putting Gerrard on the right only makes sense if you being in players who can take advantage of it as well. If Lucas and Kuyt are dropped, things will measurably improve with the team and with Gerrard, no matter which position he takes.

 

 

 

This.

And this.

It's all about balance really.

[piscinin]

This.

And this.

It's all about balance really.

 

But really the idea that Gerrard's poor performances are caused by Kuyt and Lucas is a crap excuse IMO. He's played with far worse players and still performed. The real reason is somewhere else.

[stringvest]

But really the idea that Gerrard's poor performances are caused by Kuyt and Lucas is a crap excuse IMO. He's played with far worse players and still performed. The real reason is somewhere else.

 

it's the attritional effect - it's been going on for far too long, and maybe it's the sense that its not going to change while Rafa is in charge. It's a fairly obvious point to make, but I don't see anything more compelling than that.

[aws]

Don't see the point in dropping him or sacking him as captain at this stage of the season.

 

Depending on what happens in the summer (finances, ownership, new manager etc) I'd think long and hard about whether it'd be best to sell him while we could still get good money.