Rhone group in talks over 100mil takeover.

[Carra_is_legend]

Of course we are a risk (Even if we qualify for next seasons CL) - perhaps not as much of a risk as some of the tabloid hacks are trying to portray us but we are definately a risk. At the moment we are risk (in terms of the loan) that the RBS due to their position have decided they want us to reduce the effects of so they have demanded that we lower the debt, which again is understandable given that RBS are a government owned entity and effectively are using taxpayers money to run.

 

Of course any loan is a risk - its just a question of how much.

 

With about £230m debt, I don't think we are a risk to the bank at all. We may suffer in the pitch but in the short term (2-3 years), we are not a big risk.

[Kennys_spell]

Of course any loan is a risk - its just a question of how much.

 

With about £230m debt, I don't think we are a risk to the bank at all. We may suffer in the pitch but in the short term (2-3 years), we are not a big risk.

 

Yep I agree - not nearly as big a risk as the tabloid hacks are trying to pretend. Although from a Fans point of view the risk is that the ONLY asset we own - should things go tits up (or any more tits up than from when Moores sold to the Yanks) - is the players.

[Carra_is_legend]

Arsenal did they used naming rights money to fund the construction. The guy who did that deal is our CFO now.

 

Interesting that. I didn't know that.

 

We should be able to attract a much bigger deal than Arsenal managed.

[Carra_is_legend]

Yep I agree - not nearly as big a risk as the tabloid hacks are trying to pretend. Although from a Fans point of view the risk is that the ONLY asset we own - should things go tits up (or any more tits up than from when Moores sold to the Yanks) - is the players.

 

Aye. We, as fans, have nearly EVERYTHING to lose. But the banks and the yanks are in much better position.

 

Cunts.

[aws]

What are these debenture sale things? I've never heard of them before.

 

BTW Has the stadium been re-priced yet? Concrete and steel are all way down from their highs are they not? Doesn't someone on here oversee large capital projects like that (JohnnyH? Have any insight into cost movements over the last couple of years?)

 

A debenture is just a guaranteed right to buy a ticket for a lengthy, fixed period of time . You wouldn't get your own seat but you'd have first call on the other seats for every game. There'd be a big demand for what would be a glorified priority rights scheme for ,say, £500 a season. Toutastic.

[piscinin]

Interesting that. I didn't know that.

 

We should be able to attract a much bigger deal than Arsenal managed.

 

Especially if England get the world cup!

[piscinin]

A debenture is just a guaranteed right to buy a ticket for a lengthy, fixed period of time . You wouldn't get your own seat but you'd have first call on the other seats for every game. There'd be a big demand for what would be a glorified priority rights scheme for ,say, £500 a season. Toutastic.

 

I got ya. Sounds like that "bonds" scheme West Ham tried to pull in the 90's.

[Kennys_spell]

Aye. We, as fans, have nearly EVERYTHING to lose. But the banks and the yanks are in much better position.

 

Cunts.

 

Massive Cunts - which is why my first, second and third priority is to get rid of them.

 

All these side issues around Benitez and the team can be sorted later.

[stringvest]

I got ya. Sounds like that "bonds" scheme West Ham tried to pull in the 90's.

 

They're quite popular in Cricket - my lot have got a dozen at Lords.

[red4life69]

So is it right to assume that if they pay off a 100 million off the debt would RBS lend them the money to build the stadium.

 

Surely with endorsements - naming rights, corporate sponsorships etc wouldnt this be tangible and quantifiable monies that the stadium would earn as soon as its finished...

[piscinin]

They're quite popular in Cricket - my lot have got a dozen at Lords.

 

The same setup? You basically pay for the right to jump to the front of the queue?

[stringvest]

Yep

[HJohal]

Very good point about the new stadium.

 

If the new stadium cost like £300m and takes 3 years to build, the extra revenue will only come in after 3 years. In the mean time, the club should be able to pay the interest - even if we only borrow £100m in the 1st year, another £100m in the 2nd year and £100m in the 3rd year.

 

If we don't reduce the debt now and if we start the new stadium, we will have £337m debt in the 1st year, £437m in the 2nd year and £537m at the start of 3rd year.

 

£337m debt will probably mean about £35m interest/year.

£437m debt = £45m/year interest

£537m debt = £55m/year interest

 

Total interest for 3 years = 135m (avg of £45m/year)

 

When you look at it like that, I'm not sure the club will be able to afford that even with new TV money and CL money (if we are still in it of course).

 

I think we have an agreement in place with RBS that if the £100m can be found to reduce the debt then the bank is willing to provide funding for the stadium over a longer term i.e 25 years - this would reduce interest to approx 15M per annum for the stadium. Dependent on Purslow's negotiating skills we may be even able to roll up the 137M over the 25 year period and obtain the same interest rate for the stadium which is likely to be less than a shorter term borrowing rate. My personal opinion is that Liverpool F.C should be looking to continue the relationship with RBS purely on the basis that the bank is currently owned by tax-payers and if the shit really hits the fan we are likely to get political motivated assistance in comparision to a foreign owned financial institution which probably gladly let us sink under the 'free market' banner as long as they got their two cents.

 

On a final note I see there is a fair amount of sceptisim regarding Purslow - in reality this guy is our best and possibly only one, due to the timing, of hoping to avoid a major car crash scenario. I do have a small concern that like Parry & Moores before him short-term job security via Rhone Group may be seen as a superior solution to the likes of a Sahara Group if such a choice was put to him.

[jackofdk]

Arsenal did they used naming rights money to fund the construction. The guy who did that deal is our CFO now.

 

I forgot about Philip Nash's past until I read this. Made me look a little around on the Internet where I found this investor presentation from his Arsenal days.

 

http://www.redaction.org.uk/downloads/accounts/AFC%20-%20investor%20presentation.pdf

 

He seems to be the right guy for the job if we're ever in a financial position to start the stadium proper.

[coop]

So is it right to assume that if they pay off a 100 million off the debt would RBS lend them the money to build the stadium.

 

Surely with endorsements - naming rights, corporate sponsorships etc wouldnt this be tangible and quantifiable monies that the stadium would earn as soon as its finished...

 

Just one potential scenario RBS refinance the reduced loan of £137m over 4 years therefore meaning we are paying a lower interest rate then we currently are.

 

They then loan us another £350m (or whatever the stadium cost would be) as a seperate long term loan which will be serviced via the money saved on the initial loan plus as its explained in earlier posts via naming rights etc.

 

Hence the reason why Hicks/Gillett don't want to go anywhere in a rush.

[piscinin]

I forgot about Philip Nash's past until I read this. Made me look a little around on the Internet where I found this investor presentation from his Arsenal days.

 

http://www.redaction.org.uk/downloads/accounts/AFC%20-%20investor%20presentation.pdf

 

He seems to be the right guy for the job if we're ever in a financial position to start the stadium proper.

 

Interesting looks like RBS were part of that deal too.

 

The fitch analysis model was interesting too, you would hope he's insisted on similar level of robustness in our evaluation.

[Antynwa]

Hopefully this summer will make things more clearer for us

[redrosetints]

Arsenal did they used naming rights money to fund the construction. The guy who did that deal is our CFO now.

 

Yes Philip Nash, a good man to have on side with his experience.

[piscinin]

Yes Philip Nash, a good man to have on side with his experience.

 

If you look at the executive team that's been put together, most obviously on the commercial side, there are plenty of other big hitters as well. If we can give them what they need to do their jobs, they'll deliver.

[piscinin]

If you look at the executive team that's been put together, most obviously on the commercial side, there are plenty of other big hitters as well. If we can give them what they need to do their jobs, they'll deliver.

 

Another example from today no less. Reds announce new appointment - Liverpool FC

[Horus]

Hopefully this summer will make things more clearer for us

 

If only we hadn't been saying this since Parry started hawking us to Despots abroad.

[Horus]

.

 

On a final note I see there is a fair amount of sceptisim regarding Purslow - in reality this guy is our best and possibly only one, due to the timing, of hoping to avoid a major car crash scenario. I do have a small concern that like Parry & Moores before him short-term job security via Rhone Group may be seen as a superior solution to the likes of a Sahara Group if such a choice was put to him.

 

 

He's a fucking snake, mate. Purslow is out for Purslow, if we happen to benefit in the process all well and good, but I don't hold any hope in the man - he's a sneaky fucking liar, who has been shown up as a liar on different occasions.

[BolshieBastard]

So is it right to assume that if they pay off a 100 million off the debt would RBS lend them the money to build the stadium.

 

Surely with endorsements - naming rights, corporate sponsorships etc wouldnt this be tangible and quantifiable monies that the stadium would earn as soon as its finished...

 

Im not convinced RBS would. With 100M paid off the debt which RBS have supposedly been pushing for, why would they then loan us 350m or indeed any sum more than the 100m just paid off? It doesnt stack up even if that loan is spread over a longer period.

 

I just cant see RBS lending us anything like the sums needed.

 

I've got strong doubts the new stadium will now ever get built.

[Kennys_spell]

Im not convinced RBS would. With 100M paid off the debt which RBS have supposedly been pushing for, why would they then loan us 350m or indeed any sum more than the 100m just paid off? It doesnt stack up even if that loan is spread over a longer period.

 

I just cant see RBS lending us anything like the sums needed.

 

I've got strong doubts the new stadium will now ever get built.

 

You really shouldn't use your inability to see the bigger picture as something to try convince others.

[BolshieBastard]

You really shouldn't use your inability to see the bigger picture as something to try convince others.

 

I can assure you, working in the financial industry unlike some, I can see the full picture regarding our borrowing position never mind the bigger picture as you call it.

 

But dont let your ignorance stop you believing what you want to.