Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Would be very useful if Evans clarified exactly why Corbyn's been suspended.

Yeah, though I think they can’t do that until it has been concluded? Not up to date on the Labour rules, though Starmer referenced something about it on the news this morning regarding the report and not talking about ongoing cases. That might just have been from the leader though. It certainly would help. 
 

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Indeed. Asking reasonable questions it right out of the cultist playbook. 

You've spent close to a full day jumping on any post that contains even the most simple of criticisms of "Keir Leader." 

 

He's not going to shag you. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Nelly-Torres said:

You've spent close to a full day jumping on any post that contains even the most simple of criticisms of "Keir Leader." 

 

He's not going to shag you. 

I asked for reasons why. So far I’ve got ‘he sacked RLB’. Good stuff. You spent the day backing Corbyn after an independent report ripped his leadership to shreds. Yeah, I’m the cultist. I’m sure realism and rationalism look fucking bizarre to a Corbynite. 

[Brownie]

I can only speak for myself here but I suspect this may be true of quite a few others. This isn't about Corbyn, it just happens to be that he represents the left of the party. It could be anyone but crucially anyone from the left.

 

People aren't happy because they can see what the actual long term aim of all of this is.

 

During Corbyn's tenure I consistently said that if he was replaced by another leader from the left then sound, do it. I don't care about individuals, just the direction of the party and as I say I suspect that's the case with a lot of others. This talk of Corbyn starting a new party and people supporting it would be purely because of the policies/stances, not the man. People don't seem to understand that.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

3 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

I asked for reasons why. So far I’ve got ‘he sacked RLB’. Good stuff. You spent the day backing Corbyn after an independent report ripped his leadership to shreds. Yeah, I’m the cultist. I’m sure realism and rationalism look fucking bizarre to a Corbynite. 

#NotACult 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

This is compounded by the fact he never seems to think he's done anything wrong. Any criticism he receives is always caveated by "yeah but..." the media, or we won the argument or whatever. 

This is a feature of what has now become the ‘old left’. Corbyn is the same. It’s really unsightly. Good point about Miliband, too. I like him. Not a good leader and recognised that himself, but a good guy. 

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

This is a feature of what has now become the ‘old left’. Corbyn is the same. It’s really unsightly. Good point about Miliband, too. I like him. Not a good leader and recognised that himself, but a good guy. 

What is the "new left"?

[cloggypop]

Just now, Brownie said:

What is the "new left"?

The middle. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I can only speak for myself here but I suspect this may be true of quite a few others. This isn't about Corbyn, it just happens to be that he represents the left of the party. It could be anyone but crucially anyone from the left.

 

People aren't happy because they can see what the actual long term aim of all of this is.

 

During Corbyn's tenure I consistently said that if he was replaced by another leader from the left then sound, do it. I don't care about individuals, just the direction of the party and as I say I suspect that's the case with a lot of others. This talk of Corbyn starting a new party and people supporting it would be purely because of the policies/stances, not the man. People don't seem to understand that.

I think I partially agree with that. I think he is the one because of the reasons you say. That seemed to change at some point though. I think it is about him now. He received a lot of unfair bullshit and it has all become entrenched and bitter. I don’t think RLB leaving for a new party would do the same thing as Corbyn. 

 

1 minute ago, Nelly-Torres said:

#NotACult 

You don’t know why a cult is, so you? This seems to be a feature of people who are in cults. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

48 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Read the bit after the ‘but’.  The report specifically calls this out. 

Does it, really? Where it touched on the downplaying of anti-Semitism, I understood it as meaning that it's anti-Semitic to underestimate things that really happened.

 

The report doesn't find anything like "institutional anti-Semitism" or the thousands of cases that people in the media and elsewhere claimed existed. To say that the people who made that shit up weren't telling the truth isn't anti-Semitic, by the reports terms or any other. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

2 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

I think I partially agree with that. I think he is the one because of the reasons you say. That seemed to change at some point though. I think it is about him now. He received a lot of unfair bullshit and it has all become entrenched and bitter. I don’t think RLB leaving for a new party would do the same thing as Corbyn. 

 

You don’t know why a cult is, so you? This seems to be a feature of people who are in cults. 

RLB being the left's candidate was laughable, she hasn't got a clue.

[Brownie]

2 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

I think I partially agree with that. I think he is the one because of the reasons you say. That seemed to change at some point though. I think it is about him now. He received a lot of unfair bullshit and it has all become entrenched and bitter. I don’t think RLB leaving for a new party would do the same thing as Corbyn. 

That's obviously because of numerous factors, it doesn't mean there is a cult. People need to stop talking about cults, it comes across as extremely condescending.

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Would be very useful if Evans clarified exactly why Corbyn's been suspended.

I thought it was obvious. Wasnt it because Starmer said anyone who said the problem was exaggerated would be in trouble and then Corbyn came out and said just that. Or am I missing something?

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

What is the "new left"?

Not sure who you’re quoting but it’s not me. There is no new left. There needs to be. Old left and old Labour are recognised terms, self identified actually, by those left behind by Blair’s New Labour. Galloway, Corbyn, and that group. I have no issue with most of their politics, though I do have issues over it’s viability and applicability in a globalised, capitalist market economy. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

That's obviously because of numerous factors, it doesn't mean there is a cult. People need to stop talking about cults, it comes across as extremely condescending.

Yes, it does. Not sure I’ve ever once used it until today, if I have you could probably count it on one finger. That said, there are definitely some extremely partisan supporters of Corbyn. It would be folly to deny that. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I can only speak for myself here but I suspect this may be true of quite a few others. This isn't about Corbyn, it just happens to be that he represents the left of the party. It could be anyone but crucially anyone from the left.

 

People aren't happy because they can see what the actual long term aim of all of this is.

 

During Corbyn's tenure I consistently said that if he was replaced by another leader from the left then sound, do it. I don't care about individuals, just the direction of the party and as I say I suspect that's the case with a lot of others. This talk of Corbyn starting a new party and people supporting it would be purely because of the policies/stances, not the man. People don't seem to understand that.

True.

 

I strongly suspect that if people from the Left, y'know, left, to form a new party, Corbyn would be the last person to join.

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

RLB being the left's candidate was laughable, she hasn't got a clue.

Yes, it is. She was soundly beaten by Starmer, but the point I was making is that it’s not just about politics it’s about Corbyn and RLB - seen as the Corbyn candidate - wouldn’t have anywhere near the same draw as Corbyn himself. 

[Brownie]

3 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Not sure who you’re quoting but it’s not me. There is no new left. There needs to be. Old left and old Labour are recognised terms, self identified actually, by those left behind by Blair’s New Labour. Galloway, Corbyn, and that group. I have no issue with most of their politics, though I do have issues over it’s viability and applicability in a globalised, capitalist market economy. 

I was assuming that if there's an 'old left' there must be a 'new left' but fair enough you admit there isn't one. Which means the only left that exists is the 'old left'. Not sure what Labour are now then but glad we cleared up that they're not left :-)

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

True.

 

I strongly suspect that if people from the Left, y'know, left, to form a new party, Corbyn would be the last person to join.

That’s because he knows they’d slip into oblivion. It’s why I’m not a member of any other party, because it all counts for nothing if you’re not viable. 

[cloggypop]

 

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

That’s because he knows they’d slip into oblivion. It’s why I’m not a member of any other party, because it all counts for nothing if you’re not viable. 

It absolutely does count for something. You might not win an election, granted, but it still counts for something to the people who hold the views.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

True.

 

I strongly suspect that if people from the Left, y'know, left, to form a new party, Corbyn would be the last person to join.

I'd be amazed if Corbyn formed/joined another party, like Tony Benn he sees it as almost his right to be in the Labour party, even if that is taken away from him i dont think he's going to just walk away.

[Brownie]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I'd be amazed if Corbyn formed/joined another party, like Tony Benn he sees it as almost his right to be in the Labour party, even if that is taken away from him i dont think he's going to just walk away.

That's because he's a man of principle, almost to a fault. I think plenty have left and currently have no home, which is a shame really.

 

Not that the current incumbents give a fuck, they want to woo swing voters.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Brownie said:

I was assuming that if there's an 'old left' there must be a 'new left' but fair enough you admit there isn't one. Which means the only left that exists is the 'old left'. Not sure what Labour are now then but glad we cleared up that they're not left :-)

Well, I’m pretty sure they’re Tories aren’t they? After all, that’s what Twitter thinks. As for ‘admitting’... that’s what people do when they say or do something wrong isn’t it? I didn’t mentioned the new left, though I strongly assert there needs to be one, so I don’t really need to admit anything. I just agree there isn’t one. 
 

I think Labour are centre left. For too long people have pointed at those who don’t agree with them and said they must be right wing. Why would Starmer pledge to renationalise rail, mail, energy, and water if he is really a centrist or a right winger. There’s nothing inherently left wing about Corbyn’s reaction to the report yesterday. There’s nothing inherently left wing about his leadership failings shown in the report. You can object to these things and still be left wing. 

[Duff Man]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I thought it was obvious. Wasnt it because Starmer said anyone who said the problem was exaggerated would be in trouble and then Corbyn came out and said just that. Or am I missing something?

Well we don't know, because Evans wouldn't answer when asked. If it is the "exaggerated" comment then it's nuts, because the EHRC report clearly states that such an opinion is regarded as freedom of expression/free speech and not harassment (not to mention it's quite clearly an accurate observation, anyway, and one which is shared by half the membership, many of whom are Jewish).