Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The consensus of the links you've provided - the economists, the business owners and the workers benefitting from the current pay rises - is that nobody expects them to last.

Any chance of a link where all these business owners/economists/workers say they believe they do not expect these wage rises to last? 

Quote

 

Also, far from "fanciful", inflation rates are widely forecast - in the links you shared - to exceed most workers' pay rises and to put pressure on the BoE to raise interest rates (which will fuck indebted people and a lot of SMEs).

 

Inflation has just gone down, wages have risen, inflation is wildly estimated to reach a poxy 4% max, you'd be better off worrying about Geronimo or some junk food outlet running out of chicken Angry.

 

Wages rose 7.4% between April and June..

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/economy/uk-economy-jobs-wages-inflation/index.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Any chance of a link where all these business owners/economists/workers say they believe they do not expect these wage rises to last? 

 

Just about all the links you've posted. If you want one specific one, have a look at what Carpenter Parmenter says.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Any chance of a link where all these business owners/economists/workers say they believe they do not expect these wage rises to last? 

 

Inflation has just gone down, wages have risen, inflation is wildly estimated to reach a poxy 4% max, you'd be better off worrying about Geronimo or some junk food outlet running out of chicken Angry.

 

Wages rose 7.4% between April and June..

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/economy/uk-economy-jobs-wages-inflation/index.html

Inflation is still expected to hit the 3.5%-4% mark before the end of the year and to stay thereabouts deep into 2022. That means that NHS workers, Council workers and others are being offered a real-terms pay cut. Millions of workers are going to have to strike to get any sort of real-terms pay rise. You keep banging on about the sort of people Labour should be standing for; how about recognising that this is a problem, rather than pretending that Brexit has magically made things better.

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Just about all the links you've posted. If you want one specific one, have a look at what Carpenter Parmenter says.

Well he's self employed and being a self employed building worker hes being cautiously wise not to predict the future, the others are pretty much the same. You can't seriously be against wage rises on the off chance they may be temporary, surely?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

28 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Any chance of a link where all these business owners/economists/workers say they believe they do not expect these wage rises to last? 

 

Inflation has just gone down, wages have risen, inflation is wildly estimated to reach a poxy 4% max, you'd be better off worrying about Geronimo or some junk food outlet running out of chicken Angry.

 

Wages rose 7.4% between April and June..

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/economy/uk-economy-jobs-wages-inflation/index.html

That's not a 7.4% increase from April 2021 to June 2021. It's an increase from April-June 2020 (when the economy was fucked by the lurgy and millions of people were working reduced hours or furloughed on 80% pay) to April-June 2021.

 

It's not much to get excited about.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You can't seriously be against wage rises on the off chance they may be temporary, surely?

Why would anyone imagine such a thing?

 

If you give me a pie and tell me it's a fillet steak, I'll say "No it's not; it's a pie." That doesn't make me anti-pie; I just recognise it for what it is.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Inflation is still expected to hit the 3.5%-4% mark before the end of the year and to stay thereabouts deep into 2022. That means that NHS workers, Council workers and others are being offered a real-terms pay cut. Millions of workers are going to have to strike to get any sort of real-terms pay rise. You keep banging on about the sort of people Labour should be standing for; how about recognising that this is a problem, rather than pretending that Brexit has magically made things better.

The wage rise to the NHS was appalling, I agree. They got turned over there. 

 

As for inflation, a below 5% inflation mark should really bring little worries but as you say it depends on wages rises pushing ahead. Its the seesaw between Capital and labour, and its up to us all to make sure the value of labour wins that particular battle.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Why would anyone imagine such a thing?

 

If you give me a pie and tell me it's a fillet steak, I'll say "No it's not; it's a pie." That doesn't make me anti-pie; I just recognise it for what it is.

But you've not provided one tad of evidence they may be temporary, when asked for evidence you gave the veiw of a carpenter who wasn't sure, you've guessed, as you did last week with inflation, which has,surprisingly I grant, now gone down.

[Gnasher]

Here's a typical Brexit conundrum for Labour and the left. Below is a poultry factory in S. Wales, right in the Labour heartlands, who's Member of Parliament for many years was the late Paul Flynn, fantastic Labour politican, I was friends with his brother Michael who was a local Councillor until he sadly also passed on a few years ago.

 

Factory owner, billionaire Rajit Boparam of two sisters food company want to basically bring back overseas workers as he's finding certain aspects of the Covid/Brexit situation difficult. He mentions wage inflation. He probably supplies fast food places like Nandos who are experiencing shortages. Who does Angry and the Labour Party back in this one? The owner who has legitimate future concerns or the workers/would be workers, who are probably thinking either pay more money or billionaire owner and Nandos can go fuck themselves? 

 

I'd put my house on who Michael and his brother Paul Flynn would back in this one. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/19/chicken-producers-brexit-staff-supply-shortages-uk-immigration-jobs-eu

[Gnasher]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Here's a typical Brexit conundrum for Labour and the left. Below is a poultry factory in S. Wales, right in the Labour heartlands, who's Member of Parliament for many years was the late Paul Flynn, fantastic Labour politican, I was friends with his brother Michael who was a local Councillor until he sadly also passed on a few years ago.

 

Factory owner, billionaire Rajit Boparam of two sisters food company want to basically bring back overseas workers as he's finding certain aspects of the Covid/Brexit situation difficult. He mentions wage inflation. He probably supplies fast food places like Nandos who are experiencing shortages. Who does Angry and the Labour Party back in this one? The owner who has legitimate future concerns or the workers/would be workers, who are probably thinking either pay more money or billionaire owner and Nandos can go fuck themselves? 

 

I'd put my house on who Michael and his brother Paul Flynn would back in this one. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/19/chicken-producers-brexit-staff-supply-shortages-uk-immigration-jobs-eu

 

Edit, made 40mil last year, now worried about wage inflation,

 

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2020/12/17/annual-profits-up-61pc-for-2-sisters/

 

https://www.breakroom.cc/en-gb/employers/2-sisters/pay

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

But you've not provided one tad of evidence they may be temporary, when asked for evidence you gave the veiw of a carpenter who wasn't sure, you've guessed, as you did last week with inflation, which has,surprisingly I grant, now gone down.

You have provided the evidence. Go and re-read just about all of your links.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Who does Angry and the Labour Party back in this one? 

Never assume that I will be on the same side as the current leadership of the Labour Party!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

But you've not provided one tad of evidence they may be temporary, when asked for evidence you gave the veiw of a carpenter who wasn't sure, you've guessed, as you did last week with inflation, which has,surprisingly I grant, now gone down.

What are your reasons for thinking that the current sector-specific pay-rises - which everybody recognises as an emergency response to an extraordinary situation caused mostly by Covid - are going to last?

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What are your reasons for thinking that the current sector-specific pay-rises - which everybody recognises as an emergency response to an extraordinary situation caused mostly by Covid - are going to last?

These "everyone" people you keep inventing, any chance of given some links/proof to this statement? 

 

All wage rises could in effect be temporary, the vast majority of pay rises prove otherwise, its very difficult to take a pay rise away Angry, you're a union man, I'm involved a little myself, come on ffs. I do a little bit of consultancy work for an excellent firm that pays all its workers far l more than the living wage and has just given approx three hundred people a pay rise, not temporary, a real life rise, they've recently taken on more young labour. Unless the economic sky falls in that rise is NOT under any circumstances being reversed. 

 

Anyway what about the people working in these chicken factorys Or are they another demograph that doesn't count to the Labour Party any more?  Which side you on there? The billionaire owner who wants more cheap labour from the EU or the workers on minimum wage who do not at the moment get paid for breaks? Voted and fought against the Tory Party all their life but now find themselves pretty much classed as a bunch of racist, thick, bigoted cunts, basically.  Seems to be the way it now works. 

[skend04]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

These "everyone" people you keep inventing, any chance of given some links/proof to this statement? 

 

All wage rises could in effect be temporary, the vast majority of pay rises prove otherwise, its very difficult to take a pay rise away Angry, you're a union man, I'm involved a little myself, come on ffs. I do a little bit of consultancy work for an excellent firm that pays all its workers far l more than the living wage and has just given approx three hundred people a pay rise, not temporary, a real life rise, they've recently taken on more young labour. Unless the economic sky falls in that rise is NOT under any circumstances being reversed. 

 

Anyway what about the people working in these chicken factorys Or are they another demograph that doesn't count to the Labour Party any more?  Which side you on there? The billionaire owner who wants more cheap labour from the EU or the workers on minimum wage who do not at the moment get paid for breaks? Voted and fought against the Tory Party all their life but now find themselves pretty much classed as a bunch of racist, thick, bigoted cunts, basically.  Seems to be the way it now works. 

What's the employment rate in the areas where these food production factories are located? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

find themselves pretty much classed as a bunch of racist, thick, bigoted cunts, basically.  Seems to be the way it now works. 

Not with me, as you know.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Not with me, as you know.

Yeah fair enough, apologies Angry, but you get the general point.

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, skend04 said:

What's the employment rate in the areas where these food production factories are located? 

Aww the old tory line of 'should be happy to have a bloody job' 

 

Do one.

[skend04]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Aww the old tory line of 'should be happy to have a bloody job' 

 

Do one.

Where is it a Tory line fucko?

 

The only person on this whole forum supporting the only Tory policy of the last 3 elections is you, you dickhead. I've asked you to tell us the employment rates where these food production factories are because filling jobs is a bit more complicated than simply paying more money. So, fucko, what is the employment rate in these areas?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You have provided the evidence. Go and re-read just about all of your links.

Gnasher - Here's the evidence that the current pay rises won't last; there's plenty of it.

 

The pay rises are an emergency response to a temporary situation - as described by everyone in all the links you've been sharing for the last few weeks.  Nobody - apart from you, apparently -  thinks that they are a "new normal" for wages.

 

The sectors which are currently seeing unusual wage rises will see real-terms wage cuts from next year on, because the conditions which lead to the current rises (companies emerging from lockdown; backlogs of orders; shortage of trained staff, due to 18 months of pandemic; lack of migrant labour due to Covid travel restrictions; etc.) won't apply. 

 

One of the most succinct explanations of inequality and economic injustice I've ever seen boils down to "because they can".  This year, most employers can carry on getting away with paying shit wages, but there are some sectors in which - for the temporary reasons listed above - they can't.  Once those reasons pass, as they shortly will, the construction, logistics and hospitality employers can - and will - get back to being cunts.

 

There is no reason to doubt this (which is why you haven't said why you think these pay rises will be permanent).

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Where is it a Tory line fucko?

 

The only person on this whole forum supporting the only Tory policy of the last 3 elections is you, you dickhead. I've asked you to tell us the employment rates where these food production factories are because filling jobs is a bit more complicated than simply paying more money. So, fucko, what is the employment rate in these areas?

No tory, you suggested their are legitimate excuses for  people in poorer areas to be paid less than people in areas of more affluence. These people pay the same rates of utilities as those who live in more prosperous areas, they also pay almost exactly the same for public services. These people deserve to treated with an equal clarity as anyone and everyone in this country.

 

Your veiws stink. The fact I'm the only one on this forum pulling you up on this right wing nonsense also stinks tbh.

[skend04]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

No tory, you suggested their are legitimate excuses for  people in poorer areas to be paid less than people in areas of more affluence. These people pay the same rates of utilities as those who live in more prosperous areas, they also pay almost exactly the same for public services. These people deserve to treated with an equal clarity as anyone and everyone in this country.

 

Your veiws stink. The fact I'm the only one on this forum pulling you up on this right wing nonsense also stinks tbh.

I've said nothing of the sort whereas you support Tory policy. So again, what is the employment or unemployment rates in the areas where these factories are located?

[Mudface]

3 minutes ago, skend04 said:

I've said nothing of the sort whereas you support Tory policy. So again, what is the employment or unemployment rates in the areas where these factories are located?

He didn't read the article, did he? Yet again.

[Gnasher]

Just now, Mudface said:

He didn't read the article, did he? Yet again.

Here we go, the tory lads are in.