Manchester United 2 Liverpool 2 (Apr 7 2024)

I was disappointed in Klopps post game presser tbh. It definitely was 2 points lost not 1 point gained. 

I'm not feeling any better about it today either. I don't think I've found a game of ours as frustrating to watch since the home defeat to Chelsea that effectively blew our title chances under Rodgers. Two very different games - we looked like we could have played all week in that one and not created any chances let alone score - but both infuriating in their own ways. I've never really stopped being pissed off at how that Chelsea game unfolded. Time will tell whether that ends up being the case with this one. If we just lose out on the league because of the dropped points here then I can imagine it will be. Who knows, maybe we win out, Arsenal slip up, and the point we rescued late on here is the one that sees us finish just ahead of City in a close race for once, but right now it feels more like we'll be ruing the 2 points dropped here for the rest of this season and whenever we reflect back on it in years to come.

It's weird isn't it? We've scored so many goals this season, but it's felt for a while as though this team is nowhere near clinical enough. And as you discussed on the Pod last night, the missed chances don't even tell the full story as in too many cases we don't even end up creating chances from great looking situations due to playing the wrong pass. I still can't believe we never even managed a shot on goal from the 5 on 2 break we had in the cup game a few weeks back. I genuinely don't know how it can be fixed either, as making the right decisions in those situations is surely something players either can or can't do and no amount of coaching can fix that. It feels like there's almost too many options at times and then the player on the ball just ends up panicking and picking the wrong option virtually every time. 

I’m increasingly of the view that we need a “something out of nothing” player this summer. If we get Amorim and his 343, he’ll want centre halves, but I’d just go big on one player who can score no matter what. Yes, I know I’m obsessed, but we need a young Suarez.
 

It seems weird to say that of a team that’s got 127 goals in all comps so far, but we massively lack a player who can get a goal (Or two. Or three.) in the biggest moments, time after time. And that’s what you need at the very highest level - which has to be our aim now Klopp has given us a taste of every trophy. 
 

I’ve no idea if such a “something out of nothing” player even exists now, bar Mbappé who’s clearly not possible - or even desirable on money like that with a spoilt brat attitude like his. But if he does, our recruitment staff will know about him and we should go and get him because this lack of a consistent, clinical and prolific eye for goal is not a coaching or tactical issue. It’s about personnel. 
 

We’ve got five top forwards but not one of them is deadly in the way we need (now Mo’s game has started to bow to the ageing process). Let’s go and get one. 

Oh, and we absolutely need to be giving Jayden Danns some more substitute minutes in games. He’s going to be brilliant. 

Excellent, totally captures my conflicting emotions…. and I’m still pretty emotional about this.  I’m not normally one to hark back, but one thing that separates Diaz and Nunez from their predecessors is that extra level of intelligence - to pick the right pass (as well as the technique and composure to execute it). In the many many overload situations we’ve had this season, you just know that Bobby F (and to an extent Mane) would have picked the pass that would have led to a clear cut chance. 
Nevertheless, we’re so much further on than we could have imagined at the start of the season, but it feels like it’s shaping up like a Nearly but Not Quite season…… if only we’d converted a couple more of theses chances, if only Trent hadn’t hit the bar against Arsenal, if only Ali hadn’t fucked up at Arsenal, if only we hadn’t had so many injuries, if only we hadn’t been shafted by officials in the biggest matches. Klopp deserves so much more than he’ll end up with for keeping the PL vaguely interesting for the past 9 years. 

Still Hurts. 

Sums me up. Born 5 miles from OT but a full on red all my life you can understand my frustration I fuckin hate that club I actually had to hold back tears of frustration (I am 62 and should know better) we rushed when we needed composure we slowed it when we needed pace....

This is their Cup final, bodies on line shit, when that young lad was high fiving blocks getting onto the crowd...  that's how far they have fallen. They are the Manc version of Everton now with less funny shit than them.

The level of desperate defending they had to do, where was that against Chelsea the other night? All season bar us? Shithouses 

However we know all this. In a sense we bottled it, we bottled that mountain of opportunities.

Feels like this season will be part of the broken record collection. Final day relying on others to get results to help us.

Not given up but my only hope is that Spurs chasing top 4, desperate to not see Arsenal win the league.... that for me is the ONE hope. Likely 115ers will be perfect now. So win 7 on bounce and come on you spurs 

Summed up the frustration  brilliantly, Dave.

Only thing I would say us that the Konate stuff was not hindsight for a lot of us, as it was discussed quite strongly once the teams were announced. The result is not down to Jarrell of course, but he was pretty poor for the first fifteen minutes  or so, and then barely saw a United player until his mistake. I have no wish to revisit the two OT games but from memory 5 of their 6  goals came from our right hand side. Quansah is a big find but Konate scares attackers. I have never seem Martinelli give up against anybody other than him.

You’ve said what many think, Dave.
Being where we are and where we thought we might be is unexpected.

At the start of the season not many of us would have had us in this position, but now, actually being there and seeing how it was in our hands, then now not entirely in our hands, because of our profligacy in front of goal, after scoring so many goals as well, and with Klopp leaving too, we’ll there’s so many conflicting emotions.

We still have seven games in which to push Arsenal and City to the limit, it’s unlikely, but not impossible, that we could close the goal difference down, or at least make Arsenal worried about it, whereas now they’ll see it as worth a point to them, if we both finish level and above City.

They both have games they could drop points in, they both might end up playing each other in the CL semi-final, two games which could have a big and negative effect on them.

We have to win every game though, and while we might think we haven’t really got into our stride yet this season, now would be a great place to start.

It ain’t over until it is.

Allez.

11 hours ago, The wanderer said:

I was disappointed in Klopps post game presser tbh. It definitely was 2 points lost not 1 point gained. 

Didn't watch it but yeah it isn't a point gained, but he's trying to maintain morale I guess. He knows even more then we do about just how shit United are/were so he doesn't really see it as a point gained.

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

Only thing I would say us that the Konate stuff was not hindsight for a lot of us, as it was discussed quite strongly once the teams were announced. 

Yeah I get that, what I was trying to say is that the decision to play him against Sheffield United was the odd one, because as soon as he did that it meant he wasn't playing on Sunday, regardless of the awful tackle on him. Sunday's line up was as expected because based on the decision for Sheff Utd, he was left with no choice but playing Quansah or Gomez. And in fairness Quansah was our best player there three weeks ago. There are so many bigger factors in why we didn't win, but yeah if I'd have been picking the team it would have been Quansah on Thursday and Konate Sunday.

I don't care what the sports science guys say, but if Mo really is observing Ramadan and not eating or (especially) drinking for 8 or 9 hours before the game, he should not be in the starting lineup. 

Tuesday and I’m still raging and staying away from football sites and YouTube. I think I fall into the draws kill you camp, hence why I was screaming ‘play the fucking team, not the fixture’ from about 5mins into it. The feeling that has seeped into me is we can’t rely on the forwards when the chips are absolutely down. Someone (I’m looking at you “my boy”) will miss a sitter, one of them will try a fancy backheel hence avoiding the 5mt square pass to a teammate with an open goal, and Mo will give the ball away, or run into 3 defenders…and give the ball away. Jota would make a difference, as he’s got it in him to take on and beat defenders and (above all), hit the fucking target. I’m still scratching my head wondering how guys getting paid £150-300k a week can miss the target from 5-10yds so consistently, it’s fucking baffling. I don’t know if the stats back this but my sense is we to create 20+ good chances to score 1 or 2 and that’s fucking abysmal. Jesus if you planted a telegraph poll in the box and smashed the ball off it 25+ times it would go in more than once or twice…

Spot on and every single fucking word reflects my anger and I am still fuming about the game. I said as much in the match thread, I was fuming, still am, and will be for sometime. If we don't win the title by a point or two, it will take me a long time to get over it because I will remember THIS game, not even the Spurs debacle. 

I said in the match thread, fuck the pragmatic view, fuck the "you are being hysterical" comments, fuck the "its Old trafford, toughest game on paper, at least we have a point" comments. This was NOT the toughest game, this was the EASIEST game we have had this season and failed to beat them and were made to somehow snatch a draw.

Klopp on the touch line was bursting like a volcano because he knew what was coming and it did. His anger clearly showed that he told the players the same thing - take the fucking chances, pass the ball better in the final third, don't fucking do the same thing you did in the cup game - and yet, the players let him down on all 3. He won't but he should be taking the players inside a room and slap the fuck out of each of them. 

4 hours ago, King Kenny 86 said:

Sums me up. Born 5 miles from OT but a full on red all my life you can understand my frustration I fuckin hate that club I actually had to hold back tears of frustration (I am 62 and should know better) we rushed when we needed composure we slowed it when we needed pace....

This is their Cup final, bodies on line shit, when that young lad was high fiving blocks getting onto the crowd...  that's how far they have fallen. They are the Manc version of Everton now with less funny shit than them.

The level of desperate defending they had to do, where was that against Chelsea the other night? All season bar us? Shithouses 

However we know all this. In a sense we bottled it, we bottled that mountain of opportunities.

Feels like this season will be part of the broken record collection. Final day relying on others to get results to help us.

Not given up but my only hope is that Spurs chasing top 4, desperate to not see Arsenal win the league.... that for me is the ONE hope. Likely 115ers will be perfect now. So win 7 on bounce and come on you spurs 

 

 

"Help me Spurs, You're my only Hope" 

In these games I've felt there's a divergence between the fans and the team, as in they just don't understand what it means to lose or even draw to this abject scum. It's just unforgivable to not put a shift in and, even worse, take your foot off the pedal when you've been sucker punched by them before. 

The worst thing for me was, I was waiting for our 3rd goal to go in once it went to 2-2.

I was just waiting for the 'goal' graphic to come up on the BBC, so I could go fucking mental on the train.

Me, the world's biggest pessimist.

It had to be those cunts we blew it against, fucks sake.

Clark and Danns played really well in games we probably had no right to win when we were down to the bare bones. They should be getting minutes still. They did enough to deserve them. Otherwise, what’s the point? Or are we happy for them to just be the next Woodburn and Brewster?

Also, he has his critics and limitations, but Elliott’s refusal to ever hide is great and got us a point on Sunday.

We are always shit in ‘revenge’ games. 

Spot on Dave can't disagree with a single word you wrote 

Long time since I have been that furious with our own players. Long time. 

You put it into words very well Dave, I'd just be swearing at them.

Couple of three things:

1) I disagree that the crowd was ready to turn on them. They seemed to pretty much expect what was happening.  If this was 5 years ago and they put in that first half performance, they’d have been booed off with people throwing their Season tickets at Ten Hag

2) Konate should not have played on Thursday and should have played on Sunday. Play your best players in your biggest games.

3) It was a big mistake by Quansah, but had he not made it, I’m pretty someone else would have. This team gives up excellent chances to the opposition in every game and once that stat flashed up showing they’d had no shots at all, you knew what was coming.

2 hours ago, Kevin D said:

Couple of three things:

 

1) I disagree that the crowd was ready to turn on them. They seemed to pretty much expect what was happening.  If this was 5 years ago and they put in that first half performance, they’d have been booed off with people throwing their Season tickets at Ten Hag

 

2) Konate should not have played on Thursday and should have played on Sunday. Play your best players in your biggest games.

 

3) It was a big mistake by Quansah, but had he not made it, I’m pretty someone else would have. This team gives up excellent chances to the opposition in every game and once that stat flashed up showing they’d had no shots at all, you knew what was coming.

I disagree that you disagree about the crowd.
On the stream I was watching all you could hear was our fans, until that first goal of theirs after half time they weren’t interested, we gifted them that goal and they were right in it and it spurred them on to get the second; the fucking cunts. 
 

I knew you’d be straight on Quansah’s back though. 

Failure to acknowledge history and the Old Trafford factor smacks of sticking fingers in the ears and just screaming la la la la. Of course we are the better team. Of course we could and should have battered them there. And it hurts that we didn't. But it is simply churlish to say "dont play the occasion". Utd vs Liverpool at Old Trafford would ALWAYS be an occasion fed into by history of the rivalry.

Even our 99 pt title winning side failed to win there despite finishing 33 pts ahead of a similarly shit Utd team. Over a period of 129 years, Liverpool have only won there 19 times in the league. 19 in 129 years. In the PL era, we've only won there 7 times. 7 in 32 years. It clearly is a tough place for us to go, regardless of disparity in quality. We can deny it all we want but occasional big wins aside, Liverpool football club just don't win many there.

I cannot understand why Salah stayed on the pitch, Nunez offered nothing but Salah less than that. What does Danns have to do to get on the pitch? A local lad who knows what games against manure mean, on the evidence of two cameos he is a more natural scorer than either. Give him the last 20 minutes and see what happens he couldn’t have done worse. 

11 hours ago, Supremolad said:

Failure to acknowledge history and the Old Trafford factor smacks of sticking fingers in the ears and just screaming la la la la. Of course we are the better team. Of course we could and should have battered them there. And it hurts that we didn't. But it is simply churlish to say "dont play the occasion". Utd vs Liverpool at Old Trafford would ALWAYS be an occasion fed into by history of the rivalry.

 

Even our 99 pt title winning side failed to win there despite finishing 33 pts ahead of a similarly shit Utd team. Over a period of 129 years, Liverpool have only won there 19 times in the league. 19 in 129 years. In the PL era, we've only won there 7 times. 7 in 32 years. It clearly is a tough place for us to go, regardless of disparity in quality. We can deny it all we want but occasional big wins aside, Liverpool football club just don't win many there.

I don't care about any of that because it's not relevant to what happened at all. Usually the gulf in class (in either direction) is negated by the lesser team playing above themselves and the better team having an off day. That explains most of the unexpected results, and our record in the PL era is bad because United have been better than us for around 75% of that time.

United are the vastly inferior side now and they showed it all three games this season, where they were begging to be put away. We did everything we were supposed to do in terms of dominating, but we were sloppy as fuck in the final third and three times we failed to beat them. Justifying it by saying "oh well, we never win there" is letting the players off the hook.

It has nothing to do with some voodoo shite about Old Trafford, especially as we didn't beat them at Anfield either. The way we played in the last two games especially is not what we've done too often in the 129 years you mentioned. 

When you come up against a team that plays as badly as United did and who made the game so easy for us, there's no excuse for not beating them. It's utter negligence and Klopp must be fucking livid, even if he'll never say so.