Final Fantasy XII

[Red Phoenix]

Always wanted to get this game, but for some reason I never got around to it, then got a PS3 and kind of forgot about it (and to be honest, I never really got into these games properly before, apart from FFX, but that did my head in near the end and seemed to drag on as well. And yeah I missed the whole FFVII thing as well. Not sure I was that into RPG games back then.) Just got it recently though and am about 17 hours in I think, and am just kind of blown away. I mean, it's a PS2 game from 2006, but it seems like it's shaping up to be one of the best games I've ever played. To the extent that, and I don't even like saying it, I might find it an even better game than Shin Megami Tensei : Nocturne (another PS2 game, made by Atlus, who some of you will know from Demons Souls.)

 

Not sure where to even start with what I like about it, but the main things are firstly that you fight enemies as you play, without cutting to another battle screen (drives me insane that at times.) That's just something I really prefer (and it's a huge factor in me liking this so much.), and which as far as I know they've stopped doing now with later games? Why the fuck did they do that if so?

 

Another main thing though is the gambit system, where you can assign all types of commands to your party members for when a fight starts (meaning basically anything you could normally do, including using items, and you can have a list of commands that you can assign in whatever order you want for each character. So you can really fine tune the way you attack/buff/defend, and so on.) This is another thing that they haven't used again either! I mean what the fuck? This battle system just seems almost perfect, but they dump it, and also bring back cutting to another battle screen when you fight? I'm still to get one of the latest FF games, but it just seems like a big step backwards. Almost like they really evolved the way an RPG game works, then just dumped it for some reason?

 

Does anyone else think they screwed up by dropping these things? And has any other game done something like it if I want to play anything similar after this? Because it has a unique feel to it, and I like having a lot of options for battles in RPG's, which is also one of the main reasons why I like Nocturne so much, where you can fuse demons with all different types of skills and so on.

 

Anyway, I usually jinx things when I get this optimistic, but even the story works well so far, (I saw a mention of it being related to Star Wars in some ways, and would agree that aspects of it are. It's actually surprising to see how well they managed to make some of the graphics on the PS2 for the story scenes as well.) and am just hoping it doesn't go downhill. I can hack an average story though, as long as it's not too insane, if the gameplay is easily making up for it.

 

Have heard people saying they don't make games like they used to, etc, anyway, and think that this one would have to be proof of that so far in some ways. So does anyone else rate it?

[Red Phoenix]

Hadn't had much sleep when I wrote this, but still agree with what I said, would've just shortened it a bit! I can get that most people have moved on to more recent games too, am just a sucker for games where you can really fine tune your strategy and have plenty of options, (a lot of current rpg's will seem really fucking dumbed down in comparison I'd guess.) and think this game is brilliant so far. Even when compared with other games in the FF series, it seems to be like a kind of anomaly.

 

Will post back as I get to the later stages and say what I think of it then. Managed to buy it for about 16 quid off ebay along with a hardback guide that's huge (seeing it with the hardback guide was what made me buy it, knew it was one of those rare to find bargains.) Could make a bit of money as the game/guide is rarer over time, but doubt that I'm going to want to sell it anytime soon.

[AJBlaikie]

Final Fantasy VII would blow your socks off if you love this as that is not just the best Final Fantasy game ever but one of the best games ever.

 

This was the last game I played on my PS2 till it got upgraded to a PS3. 

[Red Phoenix]

Yeah have played FFVII a little, but ended up selling the game as I was playing other stuff at the time, and needed money. I realize that it needs time to get into though like most games of this type, and will hopefully play it again in the future.

 

I still think this game might turn into one of my best ever games though. It's just one of those games where almost everything seems to work well. Have gone past 30 hours now, still not sure if I'm even halfway through yet, (have just been to Mt. Bur-Omisace in the east.) and there's loads of areas to explore, none of the main characters annoy me, and the story is hackable and isn't annoying me either. Then of course there's the insane amount of options for battles, and all of the items and licenses to get. I even like most of the music.

 

Am getting FFXIII-2 next anyway because it's supposed to be good for allowing you freedom to play in different ways. Want to see how one of these games work on the PS3 and how they've changed things. Doubt I'm going to like it as much as this one though. FFXIII has got a lot of stick for being insanely linear in reviews, etc, so am skipping it. Am leaving Lightning Returns too because the whole game has a clock that runs down as you play, and the idea of being rushed is completely opposite to why I play these games. Might try it in the future to see how it actually works, but will leave it for now.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

The FF series just got way out of hand for me. I'm 33 and have played every each title up to FFXII. The newer titles just hold zero appeal to me.

 

FFXII was a great game, I won't spoil anything for you, but the further you go into the game, the more you realize the gambit system was done wrong, or at least not implemented at its best. Example, I don't need to wait half the game for a command like "if enemy is weak against ice, use ice magic." Having said that, at the end of the game, you almost don't play if you've mastered the system. You have your commands, you walk into battle, sit back and enjoy the mayhem.

 

FFVI is probably my favorite one, the absolute mastery of the sprite based graphics and game play. I remember being 14 when this game came out, having it arrive in the post on a school night, and playing from 5pm to 7am in the morning then sleeping through school the entire day!

 

FFVII is revered as one of the best in series for good reason, but it may be hard to experience now. When it came out, it was just so far ahead of its time, like much of the Squaresoft titles. The graphics, the cinematics, the weapons, summons, misc content you had to go way off the beaten path to find, etc etc. And the story was fantastic, you're held in awe of Sephiroth, you actually grow to pity/hate him and when you FINALLY catch up with him it's the closest thing to video game closure you'll find.

[AJBlaikie]

 you're held in awe of Sephiroth, you actually grow to pity/hate him and when you FINALLY catch up with him it's the closest thing to video game closure you'll find.

 

Sephitoth is still and will always be a massive cunt.

[Red Phoenix]

The FF series just got way out of hand for me. I'm 33 and have played every each title up to FFXII. The newer titles just hold zero appeal to me.

 

FFXII was a great game, I won't spoil anything for you, but the further you go into the game, the more you realize the gambit system was done wrong, or at least not implemented at its best. Example, I don't need to wait half the game for a command like "if enemy is weak against ice, use ice magic." Having said that, at the end of the game, you almost don't play if you've mastered the system. You have your commands, you walk into battle, sit back and enjoy the mayhem.

 

 

 

Yeah the gambit system definitely affects the game in a huge way, as it can kind of do everything for you once set up well enough like you said. Started to realize the implications of it once I'd got so far, and how it can turn you into more of a manager instead of a player at a certain point. That might be why certain gambits are purposefully left until later, so that you've still got some things to do during the fights, and you're not at a stage where you can just leave it to the gambit system too early on. Maybe they feared that would've just created boredom or something, and one of the ideas was to gradually have the chance to make it work to its fullest potential only in the later stages. It should still be fun evolving the characters to use it properly though.

 

Just got to Archades last night as well, as I was approaching 50 hours. I kept telling myself that I'd stop there and then go back and spend a decent bit of time levelling up and sorting items, skills, etc, out, but was kind of glued to the game once arriving. Have now opened up a couple of areas to the east as well, and there's not many new areas left I don't think, but am amazed at how much content there is to go back and level up in.

 

Another thing that's good is the group of dungeons in several areas that are for when you're a lot stronger, so the areas don't become useless once you've hit a certain point. But yeah, still think it's one of the best games I've played so far, and they seem to have really pushed to get a lot out of the PS2 with the game in general. Each time I was opening up new areas on the way to Archades and after getting there, I was continually surprised at how big the game had actually become.

 

Hopefully I can just go around those areas for a while now anyway and make sure I'm ready for what seems to be the approach to the end of the game. Then when I'm done it's time to get the strategy guide out and see what I've missed. Really great game so far though, would probably rate it at around 95% as it stands, hope it carries on playing so well.

 

And yeah, agreed that it's probably a decent bit harder to appreciate FFVII now that things have moved on so much. Will still try to go back and play it though, as I'll probably like it quite a lot.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

RP, I also failed to mentions that FFXII and the South Park episode, "Make Love, Not Warcraft" were directly responsible for getting me into MMO's.

 

I played WoW like a fucking boss for 6 years or so until I took my life back. Which leads me to my point: I miss single player RPGs.

 

I LOVE the original PC (now Mac and iPad) Baldur's Gate I & II (recently enhanced). They look so ghetto by today's standards, but if you do some reading BGII is considered one of the best RPG's of all time.

 

They are both based in the Forgotten Realms and follow (Old) D&D rules. Shit just got super nerdy in here. If you ever decide to get the enhanced editions, let me know and we can wreck shit in multiplayer!

[Red Phoenix]

RP, I also failed to mentions that FFXII and the South Park episode, "Make Love, Not Warcraft" were directly responsible for getting me into MMO's.

 

I played WoW like a fucking boss for 6 years or so until I took my life back. Which leads me to my point: I miss single player RPGs.

 

I LOVE the original PC (now Mac and iPad) Baldur's Gate I & II (recently enhanced). They look so ghetto by today's standards, but if you do some reading BGII is considered one of the best RPG's of all time.

 

They are both based in the Forgotten Realms and follow (Old) D&D rules. Shit just got super nerdy in here. If you ever decide to get the enhanced editions, let me know and we can wreck shit in multiplayer!

 

Ah I usually play single player too, for similar reasons to you in that it takes up too much time playing online with others usually, and I just get too addicted sometimes. Will maybe have a look at those Baldur's Gate games though, so thanks for mentioning them!

 

Have just hit 64 hours on this game too, and now even the story is getting decent. (it was decent hackable before, now it's decent as in genuinely interesting me, I didn't think this would be the case at all either.) I just think this is so far beyond FFX now that it's hard to believe. It got hard for a while too and had to get the strategy guide out for the first time :

 

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Was stuck at the gate to Geruvegan and didn't know how to open it. I needed to summon a certain type of esper, which was frustrating, because I did actually try summoning one too, it was just the wrong one! And have met the Occuria, which has instantly made the whole story at least twice as interesting.

 

Galbranth is on his way to meet the party too, which could turn out to be good. Think I've seen that he joins the party by accidentally noticing it somewhere. It was either online or quickly checking some random pages of the guide to see what it was like.

 

Can also level up easily now and have started getting enough mp for near-regular spells on the characters. This is really giving SMT: Nocturne a challenge for my all time fave game, will have to wait until I've played at least twice the amount of time to decide that though, as I think I've clocked up around 250 hours on Nocturne altogether. One big thing in Nocturne was alternate endings, which really would have made this game almost surely one I'd prefer if it had them, but the amount of things to do should easily make up for that. Have even started thinking about how I'm going to play my second run through already, so it's almost safe to say that this is one of the best games I've played at this point.

 

Anyway, will probably wait until I'm about done with the main story before posting back, which might not be so long considering how quickly I'm levelling. Am at the point where the gambit system is doing most of the work and have so far been hacking down most recent bosses with just melee/ranged weapons for attack, plus haste, cure and protection spells. Have probably jinxed that big time now that I've mentioned it, but that's not so bad either, as I prefer casting by far. Have just been waiting for the chars to get big enough mp limits, then there's most of the range of spells to start working with.

[Red Phoenix]

This is virtually assured as one of my all time favourites now : couldn't believe it at first, but the creators seem to have even made a location that's directly inspired by SMT: Nocturne.

 

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The Pharos at Ridorana is a huge tower that will almost definitely remind any Nocturne player of the various towers/obelisks in that game. There's even a floor counter in the top right corner just like in Nocturne, and lots of floors to go through, to the point that it seems almost maddening at times, but the thing that got it for me was a simple sound effect. When certain tiles appear that make up sections of paths after you've defeated enemies, there's a very distinct sound that's almost exactly the same as the sound tiles/lifts make in the towers/obelisks in Nocturne. It reminded me of it because I only actually remember hearing that sound in that game, and it's so similar that it even seems identical.

 

It just seems like too much of a coincidence, and seeing as the creators will almost definitely have known of Nocturne, which was released just two years before this, it's almost definitely a nod to that game. It's brilliant to know that the creators have (almost definitely.) been inspired by it too. And the tower, like the ones in Nocturne, is insane. Have had to go back out after reaching the 90th floor (you don't go through every floor, there's lifts too, but there's still plenty of them to go through.) so that I can level up more and stock up, but when I go back will have to ascend again from the very bottom. But I'm off to level now and looking forward to getting back there.

 

 

It'll take some serious fuck up of epic proportions for me not to think of this as one of my favourites now anyway. Fucking beast of a game so far, and there's still plenty of areas that I've still to go back and play through, as well as what's left ahead in the actual story.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

Dead honest here, I don't remember the game being THIS awesome. Perhaps I owe it another playthrough ;-)

[Red Phoenix]

Dead honest here, I don't remember the game being THIS awesome. Perhaps I owe it another playthrough ;-)

 

Yeah I think it's just one of those rare games that many of us have where the styles we like seem to combine in a way that suits us. I don't even play that many games to be honest, and aren't even into the Final Fantasy series in general, but this just seems to work in a way that I really like. I get that it's probably nothing spectacular to many other players. It's really doubtful I'll like any other FF game anything like this either, although I have a feeling FFXIII-2 will be good.

 

Finally got out of that tower as well! Approaching the end now I think.

[Red Phoenix]

Finished the main story now, to sum up so far :

 

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The boss in the tower I've been going on about was kind of a dick, (going through the tower itself was brilliant though.) and the first OTT char that I've seen who bugged me. Well to be honest Reddas bugged me too, but he ended up being pretty cool to be honest.

 

Then I got to the end of the story and the last boss bugged me too. Especially when he was one-shot killing each player until my party was finished, but in the end I realized (remember these are spoilers, don't read further if you're planning on playing.) that I could do to him what I'd done to all of the recent bosses : just use melee, haste, protect and shell and that was it. Never even had to attack with spells, and I'd prefer to have been challenged more. Yes he puts up shields for physical and magical attacks, but you simply wait until they're down and carry on, so I thought that should've been harder. Especially after all of the time and effort that had been put into the game by the creators until that point.

 

The good bit though : it reminds me of a sandbox game. The world is that big with several areas that you can open up later on, that it actually reminds me of GTA in a way. That's because I always think the main story levels are hackable, fun in places, etc, (ok, with Trevor in the recent GTA, hysterical in places.) but never that great. But the main part is when that's all over and you can play through all of the other stuff that's still there. It's a huge game and am still really surprised that a PS2 game has aged so well. Will probably be playing on it for a decent while to come, then might go through all the way again to see how much faster and better I can do things when I know what I'm doing more.

 

Have really enjoyed it anyway, will hopefully still be playing for at least another 25 hours or so on this run (am at 75 now.) and even though it's not perfect, would still rate it at least 90%.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

I loved this game, but was so disappointed with the ending. So many games are like comedy movies: fantastic until they need to wrap up the plot. There was a definitive point where I said to myself, "Finchy, you just need to finish this off..."

 

I agree, overall it's a fantastic game, I hope I find the time to go back and replay it. F'ing kids...why did I feel it necessary to procreate!!!! arrrhhhhhggg!!!!

[Red Phoenix]

I loved this game, but was so disappointed with the ending. So many games are like comedy movies: fantastic until they need to wrap up the plot. There was a definitive point where I said to myself, "Finchy, you just need to finish this off..."

 

Yeah it was kind of bizarre because it actually worked really well all the way up until the end. It could've been a really classic game story-wise if that ending had just been better. Saying that though, I can forgive the ending to a degree and just do the other things and still think it's great. Bit of a shame though, because you can tell the story had a lot of effort put into it, but it just seemed to lack that edge when it was closing.

 

But like I said, if I can play a GTA game with a half decent story and still love it, maybe the same will be true with this. There's still a lot I've not found, and there's areas where I'm still getting wasted quickly with the party that beat the final boss, so there's still life in it yet.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

So you got me digging in my attic tonight when my 14 month old wouldn't sleep. We were pouring over all my old video games systems: NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, N64, etc etc. I found my collectors edition of FFXII AND the $25 ($25-fucking-dollars???!!!) strategy guide that came along with it. Plugged all the shit in, still works. I started leafing through the guide and realized in no way shape or form did I want to go back down that road. 

 

I might try and do a speed run at some point. My main campaign has over 85 hours to it. But, I started remembering all the rare spawns that I spend HOURS trying to kill or steal from, and how the shit I needed NEVER dropped. Why are games made like this? Surely I would have a better impression if that rare stuff took a while to get, but I would finally get it. I remember FFX having a lot of that too: Like Wakka's (sp) ultimate dodgeball weapon requiring 100 (or 200) wins of that stupid sport you could never lose once you got to a certain level.

 

In my many games I found PS1&2 versions of FF1, 2, 4, 5, 6, annnnnnnnnd 7! FFVI the one with Terra as the protagonist is my all time fave, but I've played through it at least 10 times, Kefka rules. After writing all this, I think I'm going to take my own advice and replay FFVII. 

 

You should too. If you have a computer I'm sure you can DL it relatively cheaply or get it on the PSN network. Keep me posted!

[Pony Princess]

I've played all the FF games but FF7 was an absolute game changer if you'll excuse the pun.  Spread over 4 discs, epic story telling, it became the absolute benchmark.

 

Can't be arsed commenting on every FF game but for the recent ones FF8 was very good also, total change from FF7 towards a more futuristic look while keeping the feel.  One of my favourites.

 

FF9 was decent and went back towards the ye olde' feel but didn't have the side-quests and Tetramaster (or the equivalent) was a bit of a wipe.

 

FFX was superb I thought, although it was more linear than previous games the story and amount of side-quests was ace.  FFX-2 decent also but very different.

 

FF11 was online and I have played it.  Different kettle of fish.

 

FF12 - probably one of the most complete games on the PS2 and one of the two I consider 'must haves'.  That and Okami.  FF12 is an absolute masterpiece.

 

FF13.  Dogshit.  Fucking awful.

 

Haven't played any since then but I believe FF13-2 is passable.

 

I'd recommend Last Odyssey (XBOX360) and Chrono Cross / Chrono Trigger (probably have to get these on an emu) for fans of the above games. Same devs.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

I've played all the FF games but FF7 was an absolute game changer if you'll excuse the pun.  Spread over 4 discs, epic story telling, it became the absolute benchmark.

 

Can't be arsed commenting on every FF game but for the recent ones FF8 was very good also, total change from FF7 towards a more futuristic look while keeping the feel.  One of my favourites.

 

FF9 was decent and went back towards the ye olde' feel but didn't have the side-quests and Tetramaster (or the equivalent) was a bit of a wipe.

 

FFX was superb I thought, although it was more linear than previous games the story and amount of side-quests was ace.  FFX-2 decent also but very different.

 

FF11 was online and I have played it.  Different kettle of fish.

 

FF12 - probably one of the most complete games on the PS2 and one of the two I consider 'must haves'.  That and Okami.  FF12 is an absolute masterpiece.

 

FF13.  Dogshit.  Fucking awful.

 

Haven't played any since then but I believe FF13-2 is passable.

 

I'd recommend Last Odyssey (XBOX360) and Chrono Cross / Chrono Trigger (probably have to get these on an emu) for fans of the above games. Same devs.

 

Damn you to hell! You're the second person egging me on to relive FFXII. I have Chrono Trigger for the PS1, I am not sure how I missed this during the SNES heyday. I've played most of the other Squaresoft greats. The FF's, Secret of Mana/Evermore, etc. 

 

Rumors are starting up with new brass at at Squarenix that they might Remake FFVII. I hate to say it, but I'd buy a PS4 just to play it. 

[Red Phoenix]

So you got me digging in my attic tonight when my 14 month old wouldn't sleep. We were pouring over all my old video games systems: NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, N64, etc etc. I found my collectors edition of FFXII AND the $25 ($25-fucking-dollars???!!!) strategy guide that came along with it. Plugged all the shit in, still works. I started leafing through the guide and realized in no way shape or form did I want to go back down that road. 

 

I might try and do a speed run at some point. My main campaign has over 85 hours to it. But, I started remembering all the rare spawns that I spend HOURS trying to kill or steal from, and how the shit I needed NEVER dropped. Why are games made like this? Surely I would have a better impression if that rare stuff took a while to get, but I would finally get it. I remember FFX having a lot of that too: Like Wakka's (sp) ultimate dodgeball weapon requiring 100 (or 200) wins of that stupid sport you could never lose once you got to a certain level.

 

In my many games I found PS1&2 versions of FF1, 2, 4, 5, 6, annnnnnnnnd 7! FFVI the one with Terra as the protagonist is my all time fave, but I've played through it at least 10 times, Kefka rules. After writing all this, I think I'm going to take my own advice and replay FFVII. 

 

You should too. If you have a computer I'm sure you can DL it relatively cheaply or get it on the PSN network. Keep me posted!

 

Good to know you've found some old games! And yeah, if you're looking at the strategy guide but don't feel good about playing the game, maybe it just wasn't the type you liked. I'm approaching 85 hours too, but I kind of rushed through the game and left most of the hunts, sidequests and other stuff out, so am pretty sure I'll be going past 100 hours now. I could try to list the stuff that I still want to do but the list might take a while to put together, so will leave it.

 

I think I rushed through the game to see what the story was like, but also to see if it'd feel empty once that was all out of the way. For the first several hours I wasn't sure, but now I'm just enjoying it again, maybe even more than before as well. Not sure how a second play through is going to work, but on this one I'm determined to play in every area I can and start using the skills I didn't before. I mentioned not having much mp a couple of times I think, but that was because I didn't realize mist skills add extra bars to the mp gauge. Only found that out after doing the story, so mp is no longer a problem at all, and knowing this should make playing through again a lot better too.

 

There's a few areas I rushed through that were connected to the main story levels that I can't go back to as well, so that will be a big part of playing again if I do. Not expecting to do that until this game has clocked around 120-130 hours at least though.

 

FFXIII-2 and a strategy guide is on its way, but I doubt that's going to put me off this. Will hopefully get into that when I'm done finding what I want to on this game first. Will let you know if I start playing FFVII too, might do that over the next couple of months.

[Red Phoenix]

FF12 - probably one of the most complete games on the PS2 and one of the two I consider 'must haves'.  That and Okami.  FF12 is an absolute masterpiece.

 

FF13.  Dogshit.  Fucking awful.

 

Haven't played any since then but I believe FF13-2 is passable.

 

I'd recommend Last Odyssey (XBOX360) and Chrono Cross / Chrono Trigger (probably have to get these on an emu) for fans of the above games. Same devs.

 

That Last Odyssey does look good, have never owned an Xbox console though. If I ever get one will make sure to get that game though. And Okami is something that I've almost bought several times, will hopefully get it soon, so thanks for the reminder.

[setreal]

I've played all the FF games but FF7 was an absolute game changer if you'll excuse the pun.  Spread over 4 discs, epic story telling, it became the absolute benchmark.

 

 

3 discs, FF8 was 4.

 

7 was quite good back then, 8 not so much. Didn't bother with any of the others after that.

 

I picked up The Last Remnant on Steam recently, anybody played that?

[SoMuch4Gravity]

I have not. Worth a look?

[setreal]

I have not. Worth a look?

 

I didn't give it a shot yet, would be the first game of this kind I have played since like 2002 when I tried FF8 on the PSX. 

 

Howlongtobeat (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9999) has it at 70-150 hours of gametime, this is too much for my taste right now. Music and style supposed to be really good though.

[SoMuch4Gravity]

That's the challenge for me these days too. If I start then put the game down I have to write myself notes about what the hell I was going to do next or just start over. 

[Red Phoenix]

FFXIII-2 arrived, 3 and 1/2 hours into it so far. Might make a thread for it if I get into it properly, but still getting over the trauma of the first couple of hours. It's almost like an interactive film where you get to do a few fights inbetween, and it was really tiresome. (along with the archetypal beefcake character that starts going into a rage every few mins for hardly any reason, glad he got left behind as the main two chars started travelling through time.) That's passed for a big part now though and the game seems to be moving along, so not judging it yet. (Maybe the long intro was partly to explain some events of the previous game as well.)

 

Have never played FFXIII though so this whole system is hard to get used to, along with the other things that are unique to this game (like having your own Demon and being able to fuse it with others....if that's not Nocturne like nothing is!) so any thread can wait a while yet. Another good thing is that once you have access to the timeline you're supposed to be able to reset any area and start again if you want to, whenever you want, (forgot to check that.) so that should be a great feature.

 

Going back to FFXII next, because I was determined not to stop playing it after getting going with another game.

 

Oh, and if you get FFXIII-2 : it might help if you like Moogles. Serah's (Lightning's sister.) weapon is also a Moogle that travels everywhere with you. I've already heard it say kupo about 50 times I think, but it's also made me laugh out loud once too. (Luckily they don't bother me that much, but I prefer the ones in FFXII.)