Rotation

[Dirk]

The difference between Bellamy this season and Crouch last season was that Crouchie was playing well but not scoring. The same can't be said for Bellamy, he's been merde so far.

[Stouffer]

The difference between Bellamy this season and Crouch last season was that Crouchie was playing well but not scoring. The same can't be said for Bellamy, he's been merde so far.

 

Is right. Crouch has many different roles that he can excel in. Hold up player, target man, midfield battler. Bellamy at the minute seems to be limited in his resourcefulness. It will take him time tho' and as with Crouch last year, lets hope it won't be too long before CB could be runnin' wild too.

[ScouseJim]

The difference between Bellamy this season and Crouch last season was that Crouchie was playing well but not scoring. The same can't be said for Bellamy, he's been merde so far.

 

Can't disagree, but he has been played outwide a bit.. which obviously didn't happen with Crouchie.. I'm still confident, like Peter, when Bellamy gets one, he'll get a shed load.

[Paul]

Great point about Rafa and rotation on the radio just now.

 

He's doing the same now as he did for Valencia and in those 5 years he has won two league titles the UEFA Cup the FA Cup and the CL. We all knew he rotated, we all knew this was how he saw his team being run and we should have all expected it.

 

Rotation obviously works so you're either with his rotation policy or you want him sacked because he ain't gonna change.

Or, hysteria aside, you're willing to suspend your disbelief for a season until Rafa proves you wrong, whilst having a bit of a natter about it on the way.

[Cardie]

I'd say the previous two years would be enough to prove you wrong that rotation does work wouldn't you?

[Dirk]

I'm not sure what to make of it as we don't know the logic behind Rafa's thinking. Sure, we know that it's partly to do with keeping players fresh but there's bound to be more to it than that.

[Paul]

I'd say the previous two years would be enough to prove you wrong that rotation does work wouldn't you?

I'm making a distinction between the approach this season and in the previous two (as I already said in this thread). There has been much more of it this year and I think it's affected our start. Last season we made changes only when really necessary, but this season we're making them constantly.

 

My biggest query is why we've stopped using Crouch in away games when he was so effective for us in them last season - in fact Rafa said that's why he bought him. I also don't know why he hasn't stuck with Gerrard on the right.

 

I don't know why so many people are getting touchy about Rafa in this debate (on this thread and others). The bloke's a legend, in my eyes, and I've repeatedly said I expect to be proven wrong. However, what I'm seeing right now isn't good in the context of last season and the additions to the squad. I do expect rapid improvement, though.

[MLB]

I don't think it's as simple as saying "rotation doesn't work". Obviously you need to change things here and there nowadays to keep players fresh, and it has to be said that some of our changes have been forced upon us by injuries and such like. But I don't agree with the idea of changing for change's sake, which is what we appear to be doing at least some of the time. Players should only really be dropped when they're genuinely tired or in consistently poor form. The rest of the time the team should stay pretty much the same, with our strongest players starting and the others pressuring them for a place in the first team.

 

Basically, I think you'll see us playing more confident, settled football when we have a more confident, settled team.

[Dirk]

But I don't agree with the idea of changing for change's sake, which is what we appear to be doing at least some of the time. Players should only really be dropped when they're genuinely tired or in consistently poor form. .

 

I'm not sure we can say that's what's happening. We don't know Rafa's reasoning behind the changes, some are tactical. In fact, I'd speculate that most of the changes not related to tiredness or injury are tactical. I'm not buying into the notion that Rafa changes for the sake of it. He appears to be a methodical and reasoned man. Whether his thinking is right or not is a different line of discussion.

[drewy]

Does anybody really think that Rafa "Changes players for changing sake?" If you do, speak know and back up your argument with hard facts.

 

Never heard so much rubbish in my life!

 

Does it go something like this, Rafa Saturday morning;

 

“Mmhhh, let me see chequered or red boxer shorts today? Tough decision this, wore my chequered ones last week so red it is. Right Crouchy, bench for you today my lad the red boxer shorts have spoken!”

[derykw]

I'd say the previous two years would be enough to prove you wrong that rotation does work wouldn't you?

 

 

It`s won us cups but will it win the league? until it does it`s always gonna be questioned.

[kopitegaz]

Rashid Irony alert.. Rashid Irony alert. Wonder if Crouchy reads the forum. (sorry Rash, I mean well. ;))

[rondeco]

This being the same 'Crouchy' who you are once quoted as saying about:

 

"He is a freak and not the type of player that a team aspiring to play good football should sign."

 

In this thread: http://forum.liverpoolway.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21671&highlight=crouch

 

You wanted Owen back, really done brilliantly for Newcastle hasn't he, his injury record is awful. I'd never seen Owen score a goal like Peter's second against Galatasaray, and I don't believe he'd be capable... and now you're moaning about him not playing!

 

I like Crouchie, he doesn't moan and accepts it, Kuyt will stay in and Rafa will keep playing Bellamy so he can break his duck as he did with PC last season.

 

Rotation is a necessary evil for a club trying to win the number of competitions we are.. So are we to play one 11 till that's burnt out then choose a seperate 11?

 

Also as someone else said Rafa tries to pick a team dependant on opposition. When Rafa won La Liga with Valencia Barcelona and R. Madrid both badly fell away due to tiredness built up over the season, not just over the last month of so of it,

 

What the fuck is all this garbage? Can someone not change an opinion? Or are they obliged to stick with them for eternity? Now rash can spew shite like no other but this is harsh on him. He will admit he was against him being signed but will also admit that he is a good signing for us now. Ease off kid.

[Christianlfc]

Like everything in football rotation has its positives and its negatives. So does playing the long ball. Playing attacking football. Playing defencive football. Packing the midfield. Even settled teams have bad results. I voted against rotation I like to see a settled team gelling but lets be honest if it was like that, Smicer would of never helped win us the Champions league.

[ScouseJim]

What the fuck is all this garbage? Can someone not change an opinion? Or are they obliged to stick with them for eternity? Now rash can spew shite like no other but this is harsh on him. He will admit he was against him being signed but will also admit that he is a good signing for us now. Ease off kid.

 

True maybe it was a bit harsh but I still don't think he's changed his opinion of him.. I tend to remember Rash saying not long ago that Crouch shouldn't play as anything he can do Kuyt can do better.

[MLB]

Does anybody really think that Rafa "Changes players for changing sake?" If you do, speak know and back up your argument with hard facts.

 

Never heard so much rubbish in my life!

 

Does it go something like this, Rafa Saturday morning;

 

“Mmhhh, let me see chequered or red boxer shorts today? Tough decision this, wore my chequered ones last week so red it is. Right Crouchy, bench for you today my lad the red boxer shorts have spoken!”

 

 

He has said that the rotation policy is there to keep the players fresh for the end of the season. For me, that's not a good reason to change things. We should be aiming to get the points on the board first, then make changes when they're needed. If a player is genuinely tired or out of form then rest them, but we shouldn't be changing things around so much so early in the season, except maybe for tactical reasons (i.e. bring Crouch in against teams that aren't strong in the air, etc.) Obviously none of us can know what Rafa knows about the players because we're not privy to the same information, but to me some of the changes we've made so far seem to have been strange.

[drewy]

He has said that the rotation policy is there to keep the players fresh for the end of the season. For me, that's not a good reason to change things. We should be aiming to get the points on the board first, then make changes when they're needed. If a player is genuinely tired or out of form then rest them, but we shouldn't be changing things around so much so early in the season, except maybe for tactical reasons (i.e. bring Crouch in against teams that aren't strong in the air, etc.) Obviously none of us can know what Rafa knows about the players because we're not privy to the same information, but to me some of the changes we've made so far seem to have been strange.

 

No, he said his rotation policy is there for him to pick specific players for specific games as well as resting players.

 

So what are you saying? He changes for changes sake or, his changes seem strange?

[Franny DelMucho]

 

Rafa likes it

[ChicagoRed]

The biggest problem with the rotation system is ....nobody is playing for their place! Every player except one or two knows they are going to be "rotated" i.e., dropped, whether they have a good game or not.

Under these conditions, where's the incentive to "hold onto your place".

There's no competing for places and on Saturday we saw the effect on the field....no competing for balls either.

 

Rotation is for highly paid, over-contracted "professionals".

 

Give me a player who plays for his place any f*ckin' day!

[Ronnie]

Because of my vote now those in favour of rotation is having a 39-38 edge!

 

Here's what I thought.

 

1. I agreed with Rafa that you can't play the same 11 players over the course of 60+ games. That's why you need to rotate.

 

2. As a result of the World Cup players have less time for rest. Even though it's early in the season rotating players will keep them fresh for the whole season. We'll see that at the latter stage of the campaign.

 

3. We now have a squad of about the same quality players to say the least. Ideally there shouldn't be any different whether you play Kuyt, Crouch, or Bellamy up front (OK, and Robbie, too), or whether you play Gonzalez, Aurelio, Riise on LM. Agger has proved he can slot in for either Hyppia or Carra. And so on... The problem is that the players haven't performed to the standard we know they could.

 

4. The argument about the team can't click if the players are kept rotating maybe the only minus point of rotation I agree. But again, if you have a player of this calibre, they should be able to play together regardless. They just need more time.

 

5. Regardless of the above point, I don't agree with Gerrard playing on the left!

[RedinSweden]

Here are some basic stats on rotation for the league winners of the past few seasons (posted on another thread recently):

 

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=418421&CPID=8&clid=&lid=4162&title=Rotation+in+Premiership

 

Rotation isnt a policy, its a means to an end. And as some have also posted on here in the past 24 hours, there are 8 or 9 players on the team sheet every week if fit.

 

Finally, Opta used for something good. As Shanks said "I don't drop a player, i make changes". Rafa puts out the team he thinks is best. Questioning his policy of rotation, or refusing to play the same team as last week is questioning his entire working method. People criticise it when it goes wrong and thinks its ace when things are going well. I think Rafa must have broken a shitload of mirrors over the summer because we have been seriously unlucky. We bummed Bolton all over the pitch and that fucking linesman did his bit too.

[Captain]

People criticise it when it goes wrong and thinks its ace when things are going well.

Touché.

[Bob]

i havent got time to read the reactions to this thread, so apologies if i am repeating sentiments already penned.

 

Rotation is a scapegoat. These journalists that are making these points are doing so lazily and it is only the easily led fans that are taking it really as far as i am concerned. There is a case for not rotating the players, but to place all of our faults at the hands of this system is ludicrous. We have only played a handful of games so far tihs season, i dont have time to check but what is it, 12 games? That means this 94 consecutive games shit includes the whole of last season, when we had our best points tally for a long while and won a trophy, and also some part of the season previous, where we won a trophy again (a decent one as well!)

 

I cant accept that our problems lie in a system that has been accomodated into two successful seasons. I especially have problems accepting this when our squad is stronger and those players brought in are better players than previously.

 

There have been below par performances so far, from players whose consistency we have come to take for granted (Reina, Xabi, Finnan, even Carra on occasions). We have had a bit of bad luck, some poor refereeing decisions, some blunders, some poor finishing, some new players trying to fit into a new team. All of these are excuses, none of them are great to hear and shouldnt be relied on, but all of them hold up better under scrutiny than the shit about squad rotation in my very humble opinion.

[RedinSweden]

i havent got time to read the reactions to this thread, so apologies if i am repeating sentiments already penned.

 

Rotation is a scapegoat. These journalists that are making these points are doing so lazily and it is only the easily led fans that are taking it really as far as i am concerned. There is a case for not rotating the players, but to place all of our faults at the hands of this system is ludicrous. We have only played a handful of games so far tihs season, i dont have time to check but what is it, 12 games? That means this 94 consecutive games shit includes the whole of last season, when we had our best points tally for a long while and won a trophy, and also some part of the season previous, where we won a trophy again (a decent one as well!)

 

I cant accept that our problems lie in a system that has been accomodated into two successful seasons. I especially have problems accepting this when our squad is stronger and those players brought in are better players than previously.

 

There have been below par performances so far, from players whose consistency we have come to take for granted (Reina, Xabi, Finnan, even Carra on occasions). We have had a bit of bad luck, some poor refereeing decisions, some blunders, some poor finishing, some new players trying to fit into a new team. All of these are excuses, none of them are great to hear and shouldnt be relied on, but all of them hold up better under scrutiny than the shit about squad rotation in my very humble opinion.

What he said.

[Guest TK-421]

Squad rotation in the 21st century has been considerably more popular since...John.