Liverpool U21 v Man Utd U21,

[stringvest]

bastards - they even do it at this level

[amli]

FFS, was hoping we could shut their flare throwing fans up.

[therevivalist]

This team has no proper forward; that's why we're losing to the cunts today.

[Bjornebye]

fans again showing themselves up to be fucking wankers

[Pidge]

A lot of effort and a poor team performance. Quite a few positive individual performances though. Coady was good, Shelvey did well in several positions, Texeira is a class act and Ward looked impressive.

 

Can't moan about some of the under par games either, Roddan and Adorjan put in a lot of effort out of position, Morgan ran himself into the ground even though he should have scored twice. Sterling was totally stranded for most of the game.

[Jhinge Machha]

shelvey needed to use his hands there...

[Guest San Don]

shelvey needed to use his hands there...

 

Yeah and get sent off and miss first team games? Ejit.

[Guest San Don]

Its hard being critical of young players but, Morgan was once again not up to the mark. Suso disappeared late in the second half and sama really needs a wake up call diving into tackles like that.

 

Dont think we'd have lost that with 11 on the pitch. Keeper pulled off some very good saves and was unlucky he pushed that last minute shot back into the crowded box. Coady did an excellent job marshalling the back four too.

[mht1892]

Ward, Coady and Shelvey played well but Teixeira was class, looked a cut above on that pitch today, on another not Powell for United was shite and Suso was absolutely awful, dunno what he was up to today, Morgan won't make it, some very poor decision making.

Sterling was quiet but was shut out really.

[Guest San Don]

Reports and a picture in the wail show a scum united fan on the pitch supposedly confronting Morgan. hmm, pitch invader and flare at a game. Wonder how much the FA will fine manchester united for that?

 

Wont hold my breath.

[Geraghty]

Suso had a bad stomach Didnt want to come off,you could tell there was something up

[piscinin]

we are missing a defensive mid today, they just walked through the midfield there. lot of missed tackles

 

So the transition to playing the same way as the 1st team is complete then.

[Coro]

So the transition to playing the same way as the 1st team is complete then.

 

What is happening there why are we so soft bellied?

 

2 passes from the back and teams are through us with our midfield non existent and the defence backing off.

 

Surely we have to condense that space between defence and midfield because whoever is playing holding mid is facing a losing battle?

[Jose Jones]

What is happening there why are we so soft bellied?

 

2 passes from the back and teams are through us with our midfield non existent and the defence backing off.

 

Surely we have to condense that space between defence and midfield because whoever is playing holding mid is facing a losing battle?

 

I think we have got a bit better at it, but generally it is because Rodgers sets up the team in a primarily possession focused mindset. The smaller issues encompassing the big issue for me are:

 

1. Our attacking (or possession) formation is all about spacing the defenders so that they are available to receive the ball if it gets "recycled" back from midfield. Splitting the centre backs wide for example. Therefore a quick break, or turnover in possession can leave the defence vulnerable and there is little cover in position for a defensive mistake.

 

2. Our switch from "attack" to "press" has been too slow and confused at times, leaving opposition players too much space to run into on the counter attack.

 

3. Rodgers seems to have little care for catering for threats from the opposition. Whilst we have changed formation for matches and also during games, we rarely make specific defensive plans for opposition threats. Rodgers works primarily on the "we'll play our best game as well as we can and not worry too much about the opposition" theory.

 

4. Our set piece defending has been fairly poor all season.

 

Now I think point 1 will always be there, but as players get more used to the way we play mistakes should hopefully become less frequent, and I think they have. We have definitely improved point 2 as the season has gone on. Hopefully either better coaching or getting in a dominant centre back will help point 4. We'll probably always concede a few more goals than we'd like under Rodgers management, but the idea is that being more fluent in possession should see us score more to balance that.

[piscinin]

What is happening there why are we so soft bellied?

 

2 passes from the back and teams are through us with our midfield non existent and the defence backing off.

 

Surely we have to condense that space between defence and midfield because whoever is playing holding mid is facing a losing battle?

 

We don't press as a unit, hence, it's easy to play around us. Watch us, the gaps from side to side are as bad as those front to back. One player will leave the line, no-one compensates, and a simple 1-2 has you through.

 

I've not watched the kids BTW, this is just what happens at 1st team level.

[Coro]

Taking into account what you've both said would it be right to say in terms of pressing and how necessary it is for this system to work consistently it's about improving the fitness of the squad overall?

[piscinin]

I think we have got a bit better at it, but generally it is because Rodgers sets up the team in a primarily possession focused mindset. The smaller issues encompassing the big issue for me are:

 

1. Our attacking (or possession) formation is all about spacing the defenders so that they are available to receive the ball if it gets "recycled" back from midfield. Splitting the centre backs wide for example. Therefore a quick break, or turnover in possession can leave the defence vulnerable and there is little cover in position for a defensive mistake.

 

2. Our switch from "attack" to "press" has been too slow and confused at times, leaving opposition players too much space to run into on the counter attack.

 

3. Rodgers seems to have little care for catering for threats from the opposition. Whilst we have changed formation for matches and also during games, we rarely make specific defensive plans for opposition threats. Rodgers works primarily on the "we'll play our best game as well as we can and not worry too much about the opposition" theory.

 

4. Our set piece defending has been fairly poor all season.

 

Now I think point 1 will always be there, but as players get more used to the way we play mistakes should hopefully become less frequent, and I think they have. We have definitely improved point 2 as the season has gone on. Hopefully either better coaching or getting in a dominant centre back will help point 4. We'll probably always concede a few more goals than we'd like under Rodgers management, but the idea is that being more fluent in possession should see us score more to balance that.

 

The issue is not the making mistakes as much as the fact when setting up your defence the way he has a mistake almost invariably leads to a shot because defenders and midfielders are not around to tidy others' mistakes.

 

A defender in this system has limited options too. With no cover, it's very risky to make a tackle, almost impossible to find anyone to steer the opponent to for help, etc. Your defenders either need to be the absolute creme de la creme OR you must retain possession. Which means low % balls from deep midfield are a no-no. Yet this appears to be our plan far too often.

 

It's incoherent. The defense is setup for possession football and the attack for fast transition penetration football. Totally, bizarre.

[Coro]

 

It's incoherent. The defense is setup for possession football and the attack for fast transition penetration football. Totally, bizarre.

 

This is another major gripe for me - we try to draw teams onto us with possession football at the back but in the final 3rd Suarez n co are still playing as individuals. With little insurance at the back the amount of times we've lost the ball up front so cheaply and conceded a chance within moments is very concerning.

[piscinin]

Taking into account what you've both said would it be right to say in terms of pressing and how necessary it is for this system to work consistently it's about improving the fitness of the squad overall?

 

To me pressing is a coordinated activity performed by a group of players. We almost never do that. We have some individuals close-down the ball-carrier. So I don't think fitness is it, it's the philosophy.

 

For it to work, we need to be able to keep the ball better. Which comes down to technique, pass selection, and co-ordinated movement of the players offering passing options. We've made almost no progress in those areas IMO.

[piscinin]

This is another major gripe for me - we try to draw teams onto us with possession football at the back but in the final 3rd Suarez n co are still playing as individuals. With little insurance at the back the amount of times we've lost the ball up front so cheaply and conceded a chance within moments is very concerning.

 

My gripe is the same thing was happening to Swansea last season. Consistently. It was pretty easy to work out why and there was no reason why it wouldn't transfer here. So here we are better players same issues and hoping he can work out how to fix something a) he couldn't fix at Swansea and b) he couldn't help but break here. Why wouldn't you be concerned?

[Coro]

To me pressing is a coordinated activity performed by a group of players. We almost never do that. We have some individuals close-down the ball-carrier. So I don't think fitness is it, it's the philosophy.

 

For it to work, we need to be able to keep the ball better. Which comes down to technique, pass selection, and co-ordinated movement of the players offering passing options. We've made almost no progress in those areas IMO.

 

I remember Guardiola speaking about how Barca pressed and how the fitness of his players was key. Makes me wonder about the overall fitness of this squad and how lacklustre we seem in games even though in the main we have avoided major injuries.

 

Our decision making is woeful at times.

[Jose Jones]

The issue is not the making mistakes as much as the fact when setting up your defence the way he has a mistake almost invariably leads to a shot because defenders and midfielders are not around to tidy others' mistakes.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant with the defence being vulnerable and saying there is little cover for a defensive mistake.

 

 

A defender in this system has limited options too. With no cover, it's very risky to make a tackle, almost impossible to find anyone to steer the opponent to for help, etc. Your defenders either need to be the absolute creme de la creme OR you must retain possession. Which means low % balls from deep midfield are a no-no. Yet this appears to be our plan far too often.

 

Yep, I think Rodgers' plan is to be focused on retaining possession. He will try to get the best defenders to fit, but I think he will try and live the mistakes believing that keeping possession will in general limit opposition attacks and maximise our own chances of scoring.

 

It's incoherent. The defense is setup for possession football and the attack for fast transition penetration football. Totally, bizarre.

 

Not sure I totally agree here, I think Rodgers gives the players the freedom to be creative and play penetrating passes when they think they are available. The idea is always to have more of the ball though.

[Jose Jones]

To me pressing is a coordinated activity performed by a group of players. We almost never do that. We have some individuals close-down the ball-carrier. So I don't think fitness is it, it's the philosophy.

 

For it to work, we need to be able to keep the ball better. Which comes down to technique, pass selection, and co-ordinated movement of the players offering passing options. We've made almost no progress in those areas IMO.

 

I think the way we are designed to press is not to have the whole team pressing and squeezing up the pitch. The way we did under Benitez or the way Barcelona do. The "pressing" is based on certain triggers and only players in certain positions react to those triggers, rather than the whole team. It is more focused on winning the ball quickly and then attacking off the transition. More Mourinho style than Benitez.

 

I'd be interested to see an analysis of goals or chances conceded as the season has progressed. From my eyes I think we have conceded less due to teams running through the midfield as the season has progressed, but more (annoyingly) from set pieces. Is that actually the case?

[piscinin]

Not sure I totally agree here, I think Rodgers gives the players the freedom to be creative and play penetrating passes when they think they are available. The idea is always to have more of the ball though.

 

Regardless of intention and idea, Gerrard and Suarez will penetrate. None of this Barcelona 1 pass forward followed by 3 passes sideways stuff for us. That is the kind of principle that leads to a systematic possession game.

[Jose Jones]

Regardless of intention and idea, Gerrard and Suarez will penetrate. None of this Barcelona 1 pass forward followed by 3 passes sideways stuff for us. That is the kind of principle that leads to a systematic possession game.

 

Really? How many penetrative passes has Xavi made in the last few years? How good is Messi at penetrating? Oo-er. There is always the idea to create, even if possession is also seen as key.

Perhaps you are a bit too beloved of systems rather than a system that embraces individualism?