'Share LiverpoolFC' piece from today's Guardian...

[RoboRiise]

I was saying this to somebody Saturday, if the credit union is only for Locals your not likely to get close to the required amount, now alot of fans outside the are may be in the position to give the £500, but it will still be difficult

 

 

Believe it or not, it had never occurred to me that would even be an issue until I read your post.

 

 

How will it work?

 

Once our Credit Union is in place, a pilot scheme will commence and Spirit of Shankly members living or working in Merseyside will be able to start saving. We are working with Partners to ensure that, once the pilot scheme is complete, amendments to the common bond regulations will enable the wider membership of Spirit of Shankly to begin saving.

 

 

That's just magic that. I realise that this is to do with the fact that Partners are a Merseyside-based union and assume that their current bond regulations include some kind of geographical stipulations for prospective members but I find it incredible that this couldn't be addressed before the initial launch.

 

Even if I was an existing member of SOS and had £10k available to invest, (note - I'm not and I haven't - I could probably find a fiver this month) I couldn't particpate at the moment because I don't live or work in Liverpool?

 

Does anyone have any idea when this 'pilot scheme' is likely to be complete? Is it intended to be for a fixed period of time, or will it's duration be determined by other factors?

 

Great work in setting it up and everything and as a concept, I'd love it to succeed if it was able to bring financial stability, real investment in the team and attract sufficient third-party investment to get the new stadium built; it's just that I imagine that whatever buzz there was around the launch went rather flat for a lot of people with that revelation.

[Jose Jones]

Believe it or not, it had never occurred to me that would even be an issue until I read your post.

 

 

 

 

 

That's just magic that. I realise that this is to do with the fact that Partners are a Merseyside-based union and assume that their current bond regulations include some kind of geographical stipulations for prospective members but I find it incredible that this couldn't be addressed before the initial launch.

 

Even if I was an existing member of SOS and had £10k available to invest, (note - I'm not and I haven't - I could probably find a fiver this month) I couldn't particpate at the moment because I don't live or work in Liverpool?

 

Does anyone have any idea when this 'pilot scheme' is likely to be complete? Is it intended to be for a fixed period of time, or will it's duration be determined by other factors?

 

Great work in setting it up and everything and as a concept, I'd love it to succeed if it was able to bring financial stability, real investment in the team and attract sufficient third-party investment to get the new stadium built; it's just that I imagine that whatever buzz there was around the launch went rather flat for a lot of people with that revelation.

 

Yep it's a bit rubbish isn't it?

While, unlike others, I like the idea of fan ownership there are certainly a few gaps in the planning at the moment. I also think SOS, while rightly thinking about the "what next" if we get rid of G&H, have taken their eye off the ball a bit with regards to concentrating too much on Share Liverpool. Plus Rogan Taylor is a divisive figure so it would be best alround if he wasn't involved.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Vanishing point defending Rogan Taylor then questioning another fans knowledge of the goings on with Liverpool, what a tool.

[navbasi]

I think 55,000 people paying £5,000 each (£275m) is realistic and would defo work and something that could be done relatively quickly... I can't see the million people thing working.

[goatboy59]

I think 55,000 people paying £5,000 each (£275m) is realistic and would defo work and something that could be done relatively quickly

 

:wow:

[navbasi]

:wow:

 

I assume you don't agree?

[Jose Jones]

You may get a few people willing and able to pay 5 grand, but hardly 50,000 odd.

[JohnnyH]

ok, so the fans own the club. Where to from there? Where does the next £300m come from to fund the stadium and the £50m to add to the squad to get back in the CL?

 

Oh, and vanishing point, I was going to ask you a question but I fear you may charge me €500 so I wont bother.

[navbasi]

You may get a few people willing and able to pay 5 grand, but hardly 50,000 odd.

 

Are you talking about fans in Liverpool or our worldwide fan base? If it's the latter, I don't think it would be an issue.

[navbasi]

ok, so the fans own the club. Where to from there? Where does the next £300m come from to fund the stadium and the £50m to add to the squad to get back in the CL?

 

Oh, and vanishing point, I was going to ask you a question but I fear you may charge me €500 so I wont bother.

 

Obviously that would need to come from a loan. You borrow £350m at 7% as an interest only mortgage over 25 years (interest repayments would be around £25m a year). The new stadium once operational would easily cover that. Once the revenues start rolling in you start paying the loan off as well..

[vanishingpoint]

Vanishing point defending Rogan Taylor then questioning another fans knowledge of the goings on with Liverpool, what a tool.

 

Meh.

 

Y'know, I actually prefer you when you baw-baw on about your personal life to a bunch of complete strangers over the internet, y'know, much in the manner a complete and utter hom would- that's not saying much, mind.

[Vulmea]

The idea is that the club pays for itself - instead of 50 million going in interest payments every year its spent on the club and the team

 

Moores didn't spend any of his own money, neither have Hicks and Gillet -the club just becomes a non profit organisation ploughing whatever money it makes back in to the club - the club can still take out loans but what it should never do is take out the size of loans the current owners have

 

Once the club is fan owned - and it only has to be 51% fan owned so nowhere near the numbers bandied about - 50 mil would do it then the money the club makes is put back into the club

 

and if the fans own 51% - then big business can own the other 49% and bring their commercial and financial expertise to the party

 

The Arsenal directors have not paid for their new stadium the club has

 

The fans would not run the club on a day to day basis they would employ professionals to do that - but fans would sit on the board and would determine policy - just as they do at Barca, benfica, bayern munich and real madrid - taking advice and guidance from the experts

 

Fan ownership can happene provided we all believe in it and want it to happen

[Jose Jones]

The idea is that the club pays for itself - instead of 50 million going in interest payments every year its spent on the club and the team

 

Moores didn't spend any of his own money, neither have Hicks and Gillet -the club just becomes a non profit organisation ploughing whatever money it makes back in to the club - the club can still take out loans but what it should never do is take out the size of loans the current owners have

 

Once the club is fan owned - and it only has to be 51% fan owned so nowhere near the numbers bandied about - 50 mil would do it then the money the club makes is put back into the club

 

and if the fans own 51% - then big business can own the other 49% and bring their commercial and financial expertise to the party

 

The Arsenal directors have not paid for their new stadium the club has

 

The fans would not run the club on a day to day basis they would employ professionals to do that - but fans would sit on the board and would determine policy - just as they do at Barca, benfica, bayern munich and real madrid - taking advice and guidance from the experts

 

Fan ownership can happene provided we all believe in it and want it to happen

 

That's it really.

We've never needed any "super rich" owners to come in and pay for the stadium off their own bat, and no new owners would do that anyway, the club would always end up paying for it.

 

Moores and Parry fucked up on an enormous number of things, but one of the main ones was that Parry didn't think the football boom was going to last (even though we have thousands of fans on the mythical season ticket waiting list). So the board at the time didn't want to take out loans against the club to pay for a new stadium, as they were afraid future revenues wouldn't be able to pay it off.

 

As such they decided to sell to the yanks thinking that they would be willing and able to leverage funds from other businesses to pay for a stadium.

 

Obviously what we got was the yanks then taking out loans against the club for the purchase of the club so we've ironically been paying higher rates of interest than we would have needed to for a stadium and got nothing to show for it.

 

If Parry and Moores had any vision at all we could have sold naming rights (similar to Arsenal) and would have needed to borrow around 100 million quid to fund a new 200 million, 65,000 seater stadium. At the current levels of interest we're paying off we would have seen that paid by now!

 

The club could still do this under a new owner, or fan ownership. The problem being we're going from a weaker position football wise as we haven't spent anything on the team for the last couple of years. As such, a rich, well intentioned benefactor who is able to invest a few millions initially is probably the best way for us to stay competitive and develop a new stadium. However, are we not just as likely to get in rapacious bastards again, who only care about wrangling as much cash as possible out of the club? Some portion of fan ownership is surely better than that. It might take us a bit longer to get back to a competitive level, but we'd get there.

[RoboRiise]

Does anyone have any idea when this 'pilot scheme' is likely to be complete? Is it intended to be for a fixed period of time, or will it's duration be determined by other factors?

 

 

I take it that's a 'no' then?

[Graham Smith]

I take it that's a 'no' then?

 

The legisaltion in place which currently limits credit union membership was likely to have been lifted this month, but we are told that decision is now being reviewed and it will be the new year before it changes.

 

There are alternatives being looked at (credit unions in Ireland and Scandanavia for instance) and for those who can write a cheque for £500 the SOS-SL share issue is planned to be available before Christmas.

[Horus]

The idea is that the club pays for itself - instead of 50 million going in interest payments every year its spent on the club and the team

 

Moores didn't spend any of his own money, neither have Hicks and Gillet -the club just becomes a non profit organisation ploughing whatever money it makes back in to the club - the club can still take out loans but what it should never do is take out the size of loans the current owners have

 

Once the club is fan owned - and it only has to be 51% fan owned so nowhere near the numbers bandied about - 50 mil would do it then the money the club makes is put back into the club

 

and if the fans own 51% - then big business can own the other 49% and bring their commercial and financial expertise to the party

 

The Arsenal directors have not paid for their new stadium the club has

 

The fans would not run the club on a day to day basis they would employ professionals to do that - but fans would sit on the board and would determine policy - just as they do at Barca, benfica, bayern munich and real madrid - taking advice and guidance from the experts

 

Fan ownership can happene provided we all believe in it and want it to happen

 

Name one big corporation that would bee happy too plough in money for 49% of the club without being able to decide what happens to it.

[Jose Jones]

Name one big corporation that would bee happy too plough in money for 49% of the club without being able to decide what happens to it.

 

It's how every publically owned company in the world works. Companies and individuals own shares, shareholders get to vote on who makes up the board. By setting fan ownership at minimum of 51% what you basically do is prevent the kind of Glazer takeover at Man U, where they gradually bought all the shares then hocked the club once they had full control.

Any corporation investing in part of the 49% would do it because they saw long term value in Liverpool Football Club. They would certainly have a say in how the club was run, but wouldn't be able to do anything to jeapordise the future of the club for quick profit.

[RoboRiise]

The legisaltion in place which currently limits credit union membership was likely to have been lifted this month, but we are told that decision is now being reviewed and it will be the new year before it changes.

 

There are alternatives being looked at (credit unions in Ireland and Scandanavia for instance) and for those who can write a cheque for £500 the SOS-SL share issue is planned to be available before Christmas.

 

 

Cheers Graham.

[cochcaer]

There are alternatives being looked at (credit unions in Ireland and Scandanavia for instance) and for those who can write a cheque for £500 the SOS-SL share issue is planned to be available before Christmas.

 

Reality meet Graham, Graham meet reality.

[J B]

Yep, that's the fucking spirit mate