Alberto Aquilani

[zigackly]

I don't think it's a problem using a different type of player to Alonso to replace him in the midfield, as long as you have a plan to integrate the replacement into your team. There are very few players like Alonso, so a like for like replacement is vanishingly unlikely.

 

My main problem with the Aquilani transfer is that it seems a half-arsed effort. We've got the player but I don't see any signs of a clear idea how to integrate him.

[silverlining]

As players, Aquilani and Alonso are nothing like each other. Which makes me find it even more bizarre that we signed him as a replacement for the latter.

 

 

I suppose, but it isn't a rule that you have to replace one player with someone exactly the same.

 

Dalglish wasn't much like Keegan.

[Brownie]

I don't think it's a problem using a different type of player to Alonso to replace him in the midfield, as long as you have a plan to integrate the replacement into your team. There are very few players like Alonso, so a like for like replacement is vanishingly unlikely.

 

My main problem with the Aquilani transfer is that it seems a half-arsed effort. We've got the player but I don't see any signs of a clear idea how to integrate him.

 

His head must be up his arse. At first he was fit but not being used. The when he was starting to get used, he's been in and out of the side or substituted etc.

 

It's no wonder his confidence is in pieces.

 

Such a shame as well, because he looked fucking excellent when he came on against Arsenal for his first game. It seems as though all confidence has been sucked out of him since then.

[piscinin]

I don't think it's a problem using a different type of player to Alonso to replace him in the midfield, as long as you have a plan to integrate the replacement into your team. There are very few players like Alonso, so a like for like replacement is vanishingly unlikely.

 

My main problem with the Aquilani transfer is that it seems a half-arsed effort. We've got the player but I don't see any signs of a clear idea how to integrate him.

 

Two midfielders. One will sit and protect. The other will attack. Teams have been doing it for years. Throw in a second striker who used to play in midfield and can drop in when needed and you have a pretty good balance if you ask me.

[Brownie]

Two midfielders. One will sit and protect. The other will attack. Teams have been doing it for years.

 

Have you actually watched us this season?

[Faustus]

I suppose, but it isn't a rule that you have to replace one player with someone exactly the same.

 

Dalglish wasn't much like Keegan.

 

True, but if you don't change the formation then you have to go like for like. Personally, I think he'd do well if we dropped one of the holding players and moved him further upfield to enable him to play alongside Gerrard just behind the main striker.

 

The only way I think he fits into the 4-2-3-1 is if Gerrard doesn't play and you stick him behind the forward.

 

I don't mean for this to say that I don't like him as a player, because I think he's shown the odd glimmer of promise to make me cautiously optimistic. I know it's early days in his Liverpool career, but I get the impression that Rafa doesn't know how to fully utilise him at the moment.

[Tom R]

Have you actually watched us this season?

 

only on the tele.

[zigackly]

Two midfielders. One will sit and protect. The other will attack. Teams have been doing it for years.

 

When I see us actually try to play that system with any coherence I will be ready to congratulate you on stating the obvious ;)

[piscinin]

Have you actually watched us this season?

 

Yeah, I watched us do exactly what I said against Bolton. I also watched us doing the positional rotation thing between Lucas and Gerrard early in the season. Back when we still thought we had the players that could play high and pass and move.

[Whelan]

Two assist's in his last two matches!

 

Generally shit on Saturday though.

[piscinin]

When I see us actually try to play that system with any coherence I will be ready to congratulate you on stating the obvious ;)

 

I thought it was really obvious too, which was why I was surprised you said you couldn't see how we could integrate him. He's the guy to break the lines when you don't need two holding midfielders.

[piscinin]

Two assist's in his last two matches!

 

Generally shit on Saturday though.

 

Sometimes all it takes is to be smart enough to be in the right place at the right time. Xabi, Lucas, Mascherano would just never have made it there.

[zigackly]

I thought it was really obvious too, which was why I was surprised you said you couldn't see how we could integrate him. He's the guy to break the lines when you don't need two holding midfielders.

 

I didn't say I can't see how we can integrate him. I said I can't see that it is currently happening with any success. Subtle difference.

[redrosetints]

Seriously, why are you even all talking about Xabi Alonso???

 

Yet the comparisons with Alonso continue...

 

It's inevitable isnt it ?

 

Im not necessailty comparing them as players, but in the way Rafa has/is using them. People seem to be saying that Rafa doesnt know how to use him, is messing him about, not being consistent etc, but he is, this is exactly how he introduced, Xabi.

 

The only difference was Xabi was fit and ready from day one. During Xmas 2004, 5 months into his stay here, Xabi was still being left out of the 'away' derby and WBA away and earlier he was left out of the starting line up at Fulham. Rafa, rightly or wrongly, was protecting him from those away games.

 

I agree that Xabi showed some flashed of excellence in that time too, which is a fair comment. He came on at teh half for Diao or Biscan at Fulham and turned the match around, he also played very well at Old Trafford IIRC.

 

My issue is simply that all players need time to play, before they can be judged and too many are jumping to very premature conclusions on Aquilani. He's only started 4 games, in a side that is lackign form and confidence and many of its best players, give him a chance.

[zigackly]

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that Alonso was introduced in the same way; I can only recall him playing one position for starters.

[silverlining]

Sometimes all it takes is to be smart enough to be in the right place at the right time. Xabi, Lucas, Mascherano would just never have made it there.

 

You do realise that Mascherano is a defensive midfielder?

[Tom R]

Sometimes all it takes is to be smart enough to be in the right place at the right time. Xabi, Lucas, Mascherano would just never have made it there.

 

[redrosetints]

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that Alonso was introduced in the same way; I can only recall him playing one position for starters.

 

Thats true, but in broad terms Xabi was protected at times in his first season and he'd not been injured for 12 months. In my opinion, in yours maybe not. hey ho.

 

Analyzing the minutia of detail here, does us no favours. The fact is, he's been injured and protected, rightly or wrongly thats the facts. He needs time, just like every other player in red, either give him that or dont its up to you, but for me, there is far too much sensationalism written. He's neither made it, nor failed it after 4 starts.

[piscinin]

I didn't say I can't see how we can integrate him. I said I can't see that it is currently happening with any success. Subtle difference.

 

Oh well, I mis-read your post then. Rafa's been pretty clear on his role. Admittedly his penchant for moving the chess pieces around blurs things a bit but he's clearly got him tagged as an attacking central midfielder. Success will be a function of time and the ability of our forwards to a) move and b) retain the ball.

 

The demands his style of play makes on his team mates is very different to what they are used to (where essentially Xabi did all the thinking for them), especially when most of them are more worried about their own poor form.

[zigackly]

I also think you are oversimplfying my position there a bit RRT. I'm not not going to give him time.

 

As I said earlier, he's a touch player; he needs games and the best way to get him up to speed is to give him a clear role in the team and try to use him in a consistent system with the same players around him as much as possible

 

We have not been doing that in my opinion. His appearances have been extremely stop/start in nature and he's been used in at least two roles in the team, one of which clearly does not suit his play as he looks to have no intention of or ability to play defensively at all.

 

It's not an ideal situation, I acknowledge that. To integrate a playmaker into a team you need time and patience ideally, and the team has to be playing consistently. In addition to learning the game over here, he needs to understand how his team-mates are going to move and what they are capable of. He'll only get that through playing games.

 

I think Rafa has given himself a difficult challenge at best.

[Scooby Dudek]

I haven't read back, so I don't know if it has been mentioned but apparently 4 starts and 4 wins. If he keeps that average up he will be a sucess. You can prove anything with FACTS

[hamstrung]

 

And Hammy, comparisons to Keane, come on mate thats not like you, has even the great Hammy been lead to think along tabloid headlines instead of with patience and wisdom.

 

 

I am not making a judgment on his abilities, more on the fact that so far he doesn't really appear to be the player we need (much like Keane).

 

He might turn out to be ace (I hope he does), but given what we've seen so far (and what we know of Rafa) its difficult to believe that will be in central midfield.

 

only on the tele.

 

He doesn't have a telly.

[redrosetints]

I also think you are oversimplfying my position there a bit RRT. I'm not not going to give him time.

 

As I said earlier, he's a touch player; he needs games and the best way to get him up to speed is to give him a clear role in the team and try to use him in a consistent system with the same players around him as much as possible

 

We have not been doing that in my opinion. His appearances have been extremely stop/start in nature and he's been used in at least two roles in the team, one of which clearly does not suit his play as he looks to have no intention of or ability to play defensively at all.

 

It's not an ideal situation, I acknowledge that. To integrate a playmaker into a team you need time and patience ideally, and the team has to be playing consistently. In addition to learning the game over here, he needs to understand how his team-mates are going to move and what they are capable of. He'll only get that through playing games.

 

I think Rafa has given himself a difficult challenge at best.

 

Sorry if I've misrepresented you and I agree with most of what you've posted above. What pains me is that we seem to be jumping in to make a judgement, now, after 4 starts, when in fact we have no real evidence to base a 'decision' on. Were keen to draw some conclusions without any real evidence, what happened to the intelligent fan and abhorring Red Top headline sensationalism ?

 

As you say, ideally, he'd be played in a defined role, the same one each week, in a confident, settled team. Unfortunately, for the entire season so far, we have had neither a settled nor confident team. But somehow we have to give him a chance and fit him in, whilst also winning games, whilst also being the best we can be etc etc

 

Basic common sense and traditional support acknowledges it will take time for Aquilani to fit in, not years, but a few games and as such we should afford him that before writing him off, or making him a hero. So far he's had one good game and several where he has been average, lets have this discussion again in 6 weeks.

 

By then we should have a much more settled team, playing with less disruption and hopefully with more confidence at which point, with Gerrard, Riera and hopefully Torres back we can make a much better call on Aquilanis suitability to our team.

[redrosetints]

I am not making a judgment on his abilities, more on the fact that so far he doesn't really appear to be the player we need (much like Keane).

 

He might turn out to be ace (I hope he does), but given what we've seen so far (and what we know of Rafa) its difficult to believe that will be in central midfield.

 

 

You may be right, I just think people are too quick to draw conclusions on the player and how it will pan out and why.

 

Aquilani may succeed or fail for any number of reasons, but not all are attributable to the manager or the player.

 

If he's good enough, then fillin gin alongside Masch at home, or off Torres away, should be within his ability, tiem will see.

 

Given that many have said we don't need two holding mid's at home, I see Aqulanis start on Saturday as a positive indication of the way we may play in the future.

[Tom R]

How many times would a scout watch a player before making a judgement on them?

5, 6 times? 10 at the absolute most I would think.

p.

 

i don't think it's unfair to make a judgement on a player based on the 9 or 10 times you've seen him play. Not at all! That's how it happens.

 

How long should I leave it before I make a judgement on a player, if I'm not allowed to make it on the 10 or so occasions I've seen him play?

Should I just not bother making a judgement unless it's a positive one, is that the deal?