An idea that can really achieve JUSTICE.

[Andy G]

I know this is quite long, but to give it some credence, Tony Barrett and Anne Williams have both seen the idea and have come back with positive responses. Here we go:

 

There is a General Election next year and my politics; like many on here, are very much left of centre. But what is the real choice? Gordon Brown against David Cameron and then Nick Clegg for the Lib Dems. For the neutral much of a muchness, for the labour voter, not a great choice - for the Conservative voter, not a great choice either, and the Lib Dems don¡¦t have a chance of outright government and just hope to be able to influence the incoming government in a hung parliament. For most people, party allegiance will take its usual course and the majority of Liverpool constituencies will stay Labour. Most people accept that whoever the victor, things are going to be pretty similar anyway as they are all a bunch of lying tossers anyway.

 

What if there were one issue that would persuade you to change party allegiance? Would you be prepared to do so? Could you put up with, say David Cameron or Nick Clegg for a term if he were to guarantee resolution to that issue that is so important to you?

 

Well what about Anne Williams case that has just been denied a hearing in the European courts. The case whose success opens a can of worms for the government to the benefit of Justice for all the families. Is that case important enough for you, as a single issue, to vote against your political feelings? To change your vote from Labour to Lib Dem?

 

If the answer is ¡¥Yes¡¦, then we just need approx. 26,000 like minded people to make a difference. Less than the number of people who turned up for this year¡¦s memorial service. That is all.

 

What a coup it would be for the Lib Dems to secure seats safe labour seats in Liverpool, and with a swing of 26k people, they can have all 5. With a similar logic, they can also have 10 of the other 11 Merseyside seats and guarantee keeping the Southport seat they already have. How disastrous would that be for Labour? How much publicity would that get the Justice Campaign? How big would the message be that we are serious and will not rest until Justice is achieved? Labour would have to act before the election to save those seats and by action we mean the actual re-opening of the inquests ¡V it is too late for electoral promises

 

To put it into perspective, the 5 Liverpool constituencies had the following results last time out:

Garston- Lab 54.04%, Lib Dem 33.47%, Labour 9.79%

Riverside- Lab 57.55%, Lib Dem 24.81%, Labour 9.11%

Walton- Lab 72.76%, Lib Dem 15.63%, Labour 5.93%

Wavertree- Lab 52.43%, Lib Dem 27.72%, Labour 6.63%

West Derby - Lab 62.83%, Lib Dem 12.85%, Labour 8.43%

 

Garston, Walton and Wavertree have never been won by the Lib Dems or any of their previous forms. The last Liberal MP in Riverside and West Derby were both in was in 1923 - obviously people were still pissed celebrating our 4th league title. The last non Labour MP in Walton was back in 1950 when Conservatives got in ¡V obviously people were still pissed drowning their sorrows after the Cup Final defeat. The last one in Wavertree was 1974 when Conservatives won (still pissed from the demolition of Newcastle at Wembley) and the last one in Garston was 1979 (Still pissed from celebrating our devastating 1979 league winning side). That is 30 years of a labour monopoly in Liverpool. Any yet they still lie to us. They still keep governmental papers regarding Hillsborough secret. They still will not give us Justice. Well enough is enough.

 

Coming into the next election, which is likely to be pretty close, Labour cannot afford to lose these 5 seats; the Lib Dems would love to win them. By getting Nick Clegg on board in the quest for Justice would really make Labour sit up and listen ¡V it would have to. And if they didn¡¦t, then they risk a losing 16 Merseyside seats, and perhaps even others in the Ribble Valley and other Merseyside bordering seats within the Liverpool FC catchment area.

 

Can it happen? Deffo. I will concentrate just on the 5 Liverpool seats, but the other Merseyside seats work with the same theory (although perhaps fewer numbers). If we take the difference between the Lib Dem vote and the labour vote in each constituency, and split it down the middle, that will be enough to worry Labour considerably. That is the 26k Labour voters to change to Lib Dem on this issue (see figures below). On top of that, we then have the possibility of mobilising some of the 175,000 constituents of voting age who did not vote in the last election, to cast their vote in support of the one single issue. Let me repeat that. Nearly 175,000 people in the 5 constituencies did not feel strong enough on all things political to cast a vote last time. What percentage of that 175,000 would vote based on their strength of feeling on the Hillsborough Justice issue?

 

Here are a few figures based on Lib Dems achieving the difference between its vote and the Labour vote, bringing both sides equal:

 

Liverpool Garston

Total Votes 34974 Difference 50% of Diff

Labour (Seat Held) 54.04% 18900 Lab v Lib

Lib Dem 33.47% 11706 7194 3597

Conservative 9.79% 3424

Electorate 63671

Turnout 54.93%

 

Liverpool Riverside

Total Votes 31194 Difference 50% of Diff

Labour (Seat Held) 57.55% 17952 Lab v Lib

Lib Dem 24.81% 8677 9275 4637

Conservative 9.11% 3186

Electorate 75148

Turnout 41.51%

 

 

Liverpool Walton

Total Votes 27931 Difference 50% of Diff

Labour (Seat Held) 72.76% 20323 Lab v Lib

Lib Dem 15.63% 5467 14856 7428

Conservative 5.93% 2074

Electorate 62042

Turnout 45.02%

 

 

Liverpool Wavertree

Total Votes 35174 Difference 50% of Diff

Labour (Seat Held) 52.43% 18442 Lab v Lib

Lib Dem 37.72% 13192 5249 2625

Conservative 6.63% 2319

Electorate 69185

Turnout 50.84%

 

 

Liverpool West Derby

Total Votes 30465 Difference 50% of Diff

Labour (Seat Held) 62.83% 19141 Lab v Lib

Lib Dem 12.85% 4494 14647 7323

Conservative 8.43% 2948

Electorate 64585

Turnout 47.17%

 

 

Total Votes cast 159738

Total Lab voters 94758

Total Lib voters 43536

Total Con voters 13951

Others (Socialist Labour, UKIP, Liberal, Green etc.) 7493

 

Total Electorate 334631

Not Voted 174893

 

Total Lab-Lib swing 25611

 

Yes it really can be that simple. 26,000 people who voted Labour and are prepared to vote Liberal will do it. Or, 52,000 people who didn¡¦t vote at all prepared to vote Lib Dem on the issue, or a mixture of the two. It can happen.

 

All we need to do is get Lib Dem backing and get Justice on the political agenda. Due to the recent efforts from RAWK, just about every MP in the country has a copy of ¡§Hillsborough - Context and Consequences¡¨ and with the Anniversary it is still warm on the political agenda. If Nick Clegg knows that backing us will mean potentially 15 new seats, I am sure he will be keen. That is without considering the possibility that there may be enough Liverpool supporters in other constituencies to make a difference there too.

 

So how can we achieve this?

If people think it is a good idea, these are how I believe we can make it happen:

 

„« We need someone who is much better at computers than I am to set up an electronic petition for the 5 Liverpool constituencies, another for the remaining Merseyside constituencies, and perhaps a further one for the national constituencies.

 

„« Once we have enough signatures, we approach the Liverpool Lib Dem Party and present our idea and the strength of feeling behind it. They will understand the issues and can then present it to Nick Clegg himself. Once he puts it in the Lib Dem manifesto that pressure will be put on the government (if Lib Dems do not get in) for inquests to be reopened without any cut off time (should the individual family so desire), without any further review and delay. He should also be aware that any broken promises will guarantee a low Lib Dem vote in the following election.

 

„« We continue to spread word amongst the general public through the internet and through personal contacts in order to achieve mass support in the Merseyside area (and potentially nationally).

 

„« We then lobby Labour and let them know what we are doing and get them to act ¡V possibly timed with Anne Williams next submission to the Attorney General. Any failure on Labours part will result in them losing these seats )if support is strong enough)

 

Hillsborough has changed the way we watch football, the way police and emergency response training is carried out with a whole new attitude within the organisation, the laws in relation to turning off life support machines and may other things. Why can it not change the political map in our country forever too?

 

Please pledge your support and ideas within this thread in the first instance naming your constituency. As stated earlier, this idea has been given to Tony Barrett and Anne Williams as well as the parents of Paul Clark who died on that day, with positive responses from all of them. If anyone has connections with Trevor Hicks, please forward the idea to him too to gauge the HFSG reaction. I will email this article to Sheila Coleman at the HJC and post it on TLW, RAWK, RAOTL and OTK )one of which you are reading now) but would also be grateful if someone could post this thread on any other Liverpool websites including the official, and perhaps even Blue Kipper and other Everton sites to gauge support from our Cousins in Blue. When people do post elsewhere, please put the link on this website so that we can follow it.

People, with enough support, we can really make this happen.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[Joe Le Taxi]

I still sometimes go on offal when I am bored so will put it up there. Good idea this although I am not from Liverpool and cannot vote so I can only offer moral support.

[Andy G]

Thanks for making this a sticky Dave.

 

That would be great KopiteLewis.

[Joe Le Taxi]

I put it up on offal but that place has gone to the dogs and they are more interested in arguing about signing Messi and David Villa for 20 million each.

[Gerschenkron]

I no longer live in the area but this idea is good and I'm with you in spirit. Didn't Labour promise an enquiry before they got in in 1997 and then Jack Straw went back on it? I think the difference now is that the general public at large is more favourable towards the campaign than it was in the 90's - and that's got to be down to the great work done by and on behalf of the families.

[Toddler]

In principle - yes,

In reality - I'm registered to vote outside the areas you're targetting and don't think there would be enough support here. I was one of the attendees at the memorial service this year, so presumably a lot of the others don't vote in L'pool these days either.

Don't let that demoralise you though - good thinking.

[Andy G]

I no longer live in the area but this idea is good and I'm with you in spirit. Didn't Labour promise an enquiry before they got in in 1997 and then Jack Straw went back on it? I think the difference now is that the general public at large is more favourable towards the campaign than it was in the 90's - and that's got to be down to the great work done by and on behalf of the families.

 

It was an election promise that they never intended keeping. The scrutiny was a whitewash and was only meant to be a vote winner. We have learned since then. This sort of political pressure will force Labour to act - or lose safe seats that have been their monopoly for 30 years and longer in most cases. We want action before the election frp them to gain our respect or to lose our vote. It can happen!

[Guest The Chimp]

Fair dues Andy and a really big thanks for a well thought out and innovative idea.* Not sure if I can still vote, but I know the Mrs is deffo still on the register.

 

Anything we can do, we obviously will.

 

* Edit - and also for Dave for making this a sticky.

[Maldini]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why vote for the Lib Dems? Have they made any promises? Why not run a "Justice" candidate in each of these constituencies? Single issue candidates rarely get elected under the first past the post system so the resonance of such a victory would be very powerful. People are WAY more likely to vote for a "Justice for the 96" candidate than a Lib Dem candidate as well.

[Andy G]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why vote for the Lib Dems? Have they made any promises? Why not run a "Justice" candidate in each of these constituencies? Single issue candidates rarely get elected under the first past the post system so the resonance of such a victory would be very powerful. People are WAY more likely to vote for a "Justice for the 96" candidate than a Lib Dem candidate as well.

 

I believe you are missing something, or perhaps I have not put it

across well enough. An independant candidate is fine, but hold no clout in the Commons. If we can get a major political party on board, due to the potential of 16 to 20 seats for them if they guarantee that they will repoen the inquests, then that is enough. Enough to put pressure on the current Labour government to do something BEFORE the next election (we have heard their promises before), or if not, to lose their safe seats to Lib Dems.

[Nick Leeson]

Doesn't this just make any Lib Dem candidate a pawn in a game against Labour? I can see what you are saying in that the threat of labour losing some guaranteed seats might be enough to make them offer something but I can also see them saying that reopening an inquest would take time and would only be possible after the general election.

 

Once that election has passed there's a good chance they won't even be in power so I can't see the tories reopening it. And even if Labour stay in power, once they have had our votes what's to stop them breaking another in a long list of broken promises.

 

If your intention is to gain some support from the Lib Dems then I don't know what good that will do either. Would they have any power to get the inquest reopened?

[Andy G]

Doesn't this just make any Lib Dem candidate a pawn in a game against Labour? I can see what you are saying in that the threat of labour losing some guaranteed seats might be enough to make them offer something but I can also see them saying that reopening an inquest would take time and would only be possible after the general election.

 

Once that election has passed there's a good chance they won't even be in power so I can't see the tories reopening it. And even if Labour stay in power, once they have had our votes what's to stop them breaking another in a long list of broken promises.

 

If your intention is to gain some support from the Lib Dems then I don't know what good that will do either. Would they have any power to get the inquest reopened?

 

Labour can re-open the inquests at any time they like. Anne Williams next submission to the Attourney General is likely to be nefore the next election. If Labour don't act, then make them pay and hope it is a hung parliament so the Lib Dems have some power to form a solid government. They can then use the Hillsborough issue as a priority in the negotiaions with lthe eading party to get the inquest reopened. This gives them an opportunity for more power at Labours expense. Labour must act to avoid that, and therefore. . . (return to first sentence)

[Maldini]

I believe you are missing something, or perhaps I have not put it

across well enough. An independant candidate is fine, but hold no clout in the Commons. If we can get a major political party on board, due to the potential of 16 to 20 seats for them if they guarantee that they will repoen the inquests, then that is enough. Enough to put pressure on the current Labour government to do something BEFORE the next election (we have heard their promises before), or if not, to lose their safe seats to Lib Dems.

 

An independent would have as much clout in the event of a hung parliament as a Lib Dem candidate and a hung parliament is about the only situation where your plan has any leverage. A justice candidate also has other advantages ie: they are there every single day in parliament lobbying for a new inquiry, they can raise the subject whenever possible in parliament and most importantly it is top of their list of priorities and not 156th as it would be with a Lib Dem candidate.

 

I don't mean to jump all over your idea, fair play to you for coming up with it in the first place, I just think it needs some refinement to be truly effective.

[Andy G]

An independent would have as much clout in the event of a hung parliament as a Lib Dem candidate and a hung parliament is about the only situation where your plan has any leverage. A justice candidate also has other advantages ie: they are there every single day in parliament lobbying for a new inquiry, they can raise the subject whenever possible in parliament and most importantly it is top of their list of priorities and not 156th as it would be with a Lib Dem candidate.

 

I don't mean to jump all over your idea, fair play to you for coming up with it in the first place, I just think it needs some refinement to be truly effective.

 

No, I really appreiacte the feedback. It is not a case of it has to be my way, any way that will achieve Justice has my full backing. I don't agree about in independant against a big party MP though. If we are (potentially) offering 15 seats, it would have to be on thier manifesto adn they would have to act or guarantee losing votes in the area, which would then guarantee Labour votes for the future. The Lib Dems have won seats in Merseyside, but as we have proven before, if you piss us off enough, we make you suffer. Lib Dems can;t take that chance and they have nothing to lose by reopening the enquiries anyway. They have not been involced in the cover up.

[billybudd]

I have spent my whole working life in PR and politics and have also been thinking about how to get this shower out and get Justice candidates in.

 

There's never been a better time to make this happen - the public mood is fed up with the traditional party system and there are already calls for an non-political party era to emerge from the expenses mess.

 

It costs £500 for a non-returnable deposit to stand as a prospective MP - you lose the money if you don't poll 5% of the vote, which wouldn't be an issue here.

 

Candidates just need to be nominated by 10 electors of the constituency they want to stand in, again this wouldn't be an issue.

 

My thinking was that there's already an army of skills out there - lawyers to help with the legal status of setting up any new party, accountants to make sure there's no issue with the financial standing, printers to help with leaflets, PR, journalists, people to help with canvassing, etc

 

Like I said, it's something that has been on my mind since the anniversary though I haven't approached anyone and anything like this would need HJC support/blessing.

 

Single issue candidates have been successful before - Martin Bell on his anti-sleaze ticket and Richard Taylor, who kicked out a junior Labour minister in 2001 with a majority of 18,000. His issue? Keeping his local hospital open.

 

As mentioned in an earlier post, who would you and your family vote for next year if given the choice of a Justice candidate?

[Andy G]

It would seem that Tony Barrett is comfortable enough to put something in the paper to drum up support. He cannot back a campaign like this in print because of the owners, we just need people in Liverpool to follow this up with some ground work, and anyone to help with an online petition.

Liverpool Echo.co.uk - Liverpool FC - News - Tony Barrett: Play your part and support Hillsborough justice campaign

[Strontium]

As much as I would love to see Liverpool return five Lib Dem MPs at the next election (several of whom I would consider friends) I'm sorry to say I wouldn't touch this idea with a shitty stick.

 

Why? Well, while I have little doubt that Nick Clegg would support calls for a fresh inquiry into the disaster, to run a campaign predicated on such a pledge would be seen as political opportunism of the worst kind.

 

It would look like we were using the deaths of 96 people not because we passionately believed in the cause, but merely so we could get elected in seats where we would ordinarily have a slim chance of victory.

 

I would be all in favour of a campaign that sought to ask candidates (of all parties) whether or not they would support a new enquiry and then advised people to vote accordingly, but if you think we as a party would try to capitalise on unhappiness and misery just to get a few extra MPs, you have us confused with someone else.

 

Under the terms that this proposal is currently framed in, it is (IMO) a non-starter.

[Andy G]

As much as I would love to see Liverpool return five Lib Dem MPs at the next election (several of whom I would consider friends) I'm sorry to say I wouldn't touch this idea with a shitty stick.

 

Why? Well, while I have little doubt that Nick Clegg would support calls for a fresh inquiry into the disaster, to run a campaign predicated on such a pledge would be seen as political opportunism of the worst kind.

 

It would look like we were using the deaths of 96 people not because we passionately believed in the cause, but merely so we could get elected in seats where we would ordinarily have a slim chance of victory.

 

I would be all in favour of a campaign that sought to ask candidates (of all parties) whether or not they would support a new enquiry and then advised people to vote accordingly, but if you think we as a party would try to capitalise on unhappiness and misery just to get a few extra MPs, you have us confused with someone else.

 

Under the terms that this proposal is currently framed in, it is (IMO) a non-starter.

 

Thanks for that feedback, very valuable. There must be a way of putting political pressure on enough to get the right result though, it is just case of finding it. I am open to ideas.