Andy G

Well, Mad Mick in the Nottingham branch has managed to build up a regular clientelle. Not to the same person, mind, he just manages to get enough people on the "Do you want a ticket for Sunday" type thing. Hundreds of them. And then charges over the odds. Fucning TOUT cunt. Then, when it comes to Cup Finals, he gives them to the highest bidder, not the poor lad that has been taking his tickets all year ( and I can name him). Cunt of the highest order - mick, not the poor lad who suffered.. Oh I could tell you so much more. Mad Mick, if you see this post, then sue me. You prbabably call Blues mongs. LOOK IN THE MIRROR you twat. And if you don't know who I am, then the G in my name comes from the Derby branch, Igoe and Gray. Remember the car crash you cunt. . . leave the 12 year old who is shaken up, lets fuck off. You Cunt. Don't know if he comes on here, but if he does, then you can ask him how supporters clubs get tickets, I am sure they are not all thick cunts like him (although rich touting thick cunts)

And the link: There is actually more than quoted above as Paul Clarks parents are interviewed too. Paul Clark Andy Booth Hillsborough disaster 1989|derbyshire|thisisderbyshire

Thanks for that. You will notice the above as me as Andrew Gray. The actual Newspaper article will read Andy Gray and the reason for the change is that I posted it on RAWK first and on that website they have an automatic change of Andy Gray to Martin Tyler's Monkey. Funny as that is, I thought it not suitable for this article!!

The following will appear in tomorrows Derby Evening Telegraph as a result of the Hillsborough For Dummies targeted distibution. I know peoples feeings about Clough so no need to comment here. What was written is true and it was a 'Derby' take on things so any critcism would have not been in the campaigns interest.

Thanks for that feedback, very valuable. There must be a way of putting political pressure on enough to get the right result though, it is just case of finding it. I am open to ideas.

It would seem that Tony Barrett is comfortable enough to put something in the paper to drum up support. He cannot back a campaign like this in print because of the owners, we just need people in Liverpool to follow this up with some ground work, and anyone to help with an online petition. Liverpool Echo.co.uk - Liverpool FC - News - Tony Barrett: Play your part and support Hillsborough justice campaign

No, I really appreiacte the feedback. It is not a case of it has to be my way, any way that will achieve Justice has my full backing. I don't agree about in independant against a big party MP though. If we are (potentially) offering 15 seats, it would have to be on thier manifesto adn they would have to act or guarantee losing votes in the area, which would then guarantee Labour votes for the future. The Lib Dems have won seats in Merseyside, but as we have proven before, if you piss us off enough, we make you suffer. Lib Dems can;t take that chance and they have nothing to lose by reopening the enquiries anyway. They have not been involced in the cover up.

Labour can re-open the inquests at any time they like. Anne Williams next submission to the Attourney General is likely to be nefore the next election. If Labour don't act, then make them pay and hope it is a hung parliament so the Lib Dems have some power to form a solid government. They can then use the Hillsborough issue as a priority in the negotiaions with lthe eading party to get the inquest reopened. This gives them an opportunity for more power at Labours expense. Labour must act to avoid that, and therefore. . . (return to first sentence)

I believe you are missing something, or perhaps I have not put it across well enough. An independant candidate is fine, but hold no clout in the Commons. If we can get a major political party on board, due to the potential of 16 to 20 seats for them if they guarantee that they will repoen the inquests, then that is enough. Enough to put pressure on the current Labour government to do something BEFORE the next election (we have heard their promises before), or if not, to lose their safe seats to Lib Dems.

It was an election promise that they never intended keeping. The scrutiny was a whitewash and was only meant to be a vote winner. We have learned since then. This sort of political pressure will force Labour to act - or lose safe seats that have been their monopoly for 30 years and longer in most cases. We want action before the election frp them to gain our respect or to lose our vote. It can happen!

Thanks for making this a sticky Dave. That would be great KopiteLewis.

I think it should go back to the old system so the tie was not complete until there was a winner. No penalties and all that rubbish, and if the game is replayed 12 times, then so be it.

It was a ball girl, and I don't think it was 89. That cup run was Carlisle, Milwall, Hull, Brentford, Forest. I think it was 91, but only guessing.

I know this is quite long, but to give it some credence, Tony Barrett and Anne Williams have both seen the idea and have come back with positive responses. Here we go: There is a General Election next year and my politics; like many on here, are very much left of centre. But what is the real choice? Gordon Brown against David Cameron and then Nick Clegg for the Lib Dems. For the neutral much of a muchness, for the labour voter, not a great choice - for the Conservative voter, not a great choice either, and the Lib Dems don¡¦t have a chance of outright government and just hope to be able to influence the incoming government in a hung parliament. For most people, party allegiance will take its usual course and the majority of Liverpool constituencies will stay Labour. Most people accept that whoever the victor, things are going to be pretty similar anyway as they are all a bunch of lying tossers anyway. What if there were one issue that would persuade you to change party allegiance? Would you be prepared to do so? Could you put up with, say David Cameron or Nick Clegg for a term if he were to guarantee resolution to that issue that is so important to you? Well what about Anne Williams case that has just been denied a hearing in the European courts. The case whose success opens a can of worms for the government to the benefit of Justice for all the families. Is that case important enough for you, as a single issue, to vote against your political feelings? To change your vote from Labour to Lib Dem? If the answer is ¡¥Yes¡¦, then we just need approx. 26,000 like minded people to make a difference. Less than the number of people who turned up for this year¡¦s memorial service. That is all. What a coup it would be for the Lib Dems to secure seats safe labour seats in Liverpool, and with a swing of 26k people, they can have all 5. With a similar logic, they can also have 10 of the other 11 Merseyside seats and guarantee keeping the Southport seat they already have. How disastrous would that be for Labour? How much publicity would that get the Justice Campaign? How big would the message be that we are serious and will not rest until Justice is achieved? Labour would have to act before the election to save those seats and by action we mean the actual re-opening of the inquests ¡V it is too late for electoral promises To put it into perspective, the 5 Liverpool constituencies had the following results last time out: Garston- Lab 54.04%, Lib Dem 33.47%, Labour 9.79% Riverside- Lab 57.55%, Lib Dem 24.81%, Labour 9.11% Walton- Lab 72.76%, Lib Dem 15.63%, Labour 5.93% Wavertree- Lab 52.43%, Lib Dem 27.72%, Labour 6.63% West Derby - Lab 62.83%, Lib Dem 12.85%, Labour 8.43% Garston, Walton and Wavertree have never been won by the Lib Dems or any of their previous forms. The last Liberal MP in Riverside and West Derby were both in was in 1923 - obviously people were still pissed celebrating our 4th league title. The last non Labour MP in Walton was back in 1950 when Conservatives got in ¡V obviously people were still pissed drowning their sorrows after the Cup Final defeat. The last one in Wavertree was 1974 when Conservatives won (still pissed from the demolition of Newcastle at Wembley) and the last one in Garston was 1979 (Still pissed from celebrating our devastating 1979 league winning side). That is 30 years of a labour monopoly in Liverpool. Any yet they still lie to us. They still keep governmental papers regarding Hillsborough secret. They still will not give us Justice. Well enough is enough. Coming into the next election, which is likely to be pretty close, Labour cannot afford to lose these 5 seats; the Lib Dems would love to win them. By getting Nick Clegg on board in the quest for Justice would really make Labour sit up and listen ¡V it would have to. And if they didn¡¦t, then they risk a losing 16 Merseyside seats, and perhaps even others in the Ribble Valley and other Merseyside bordering seats within the Liverpool FC catchment area. Can it happen? Deffo. I will concentrate just on the 5 Liverpool seats, but the other Merseyside seats work with the same theory (although perhaps fewer numbers). If we take the difference between the Lib Dem vote and the labour vote in each constituency, and split it down the middle, that will be enough to worry Labour considerably. That is the 26k Labour voters to change to Lib Dem on this issue (see figures below). On top of that, we then have the possibility of mobilising some of the 175,000 constituents of voting age who did not vote in the last election, to cast their vote in support of the one single issue. Let me repeat that. Nearly 175,000 people in the 5 constituencies did not feel strong enough on all things political to cast a vote last time. What percentage of that 175,000 would vote based on their strength of feeling on the Hillsborough Justice issue? Here are a few figures based on Lib Dems achieving the difference between its vote and the Labour vote, bringing both sides equal: Liverpool Garston Total Votes 34974 Difference 50% of Diff Labour (Seat Held) 54.04% 18900 Lab v Lib Lib Dem 33.47% 11706 7194 3597 Conservative 9.79% 3424 Electorate 63671 Turnout 54.93% Liverpool Riverside Total Votes 31194 Difference 50% of Diff Labour (Seat Held) 57.55% 17952 Lab v Lib Lib Dem 24.81% 8677 9275 4637 Conservative 9.11% 3186 Electorate 75148 Turnout 41.51% Liverpool Walton Total Votes 27931 Difference 50% of Diff Labour (Seat Held) 72.76% 20323 Lab v Lib Lib Dem 15.63% 5467 14856 7428 Conservative 5.93% 2074 Electorate 62042 Turnout 45.02% Liverpool Wavertree Total Votes 35174 Difference 50% of Diff Labour (Seat Held) 52.43% 18442 Lab v Lib Lib Dem 37.72% 13192 5249 2625 Conservative 6.63% 2319 Electorate 69185 Turnout 50.84% Liverpool West Derby Total Votes 30465 Difference 50% of Diff Labour (Seat Held) 62.83% 19141 Lab v Lib Lib Dem 12.85% 4494 14647 7323 Conservative 8.43% 2948 Electorate 64585 Turnout 47.17% Total Votes cast 159738 Total Lab voters 94758 Total Lib voters 43536 Total Con voters 13951 Others (Socialist Labour, UKIP, Liberal, Green etc.) 7493 Total Electorate 334631 Not Voted 174893 Total Lab-Lib swing 25611 Yes it really can be that simple. 26,000 people who voted Labour and are prepared to vote Liberal will do it. Or, 52,000 people who didn¡¦t vote at all prepared to vote Lib Dem on the issue, or a mixture of the two. It can happen. All we need to do is get Lib Dem backing and get Justice on the political agenda. Due to the recent efforts from RAWK, just about every MP in the country has a copy of ¡§Hillsborough - Context and Consequences¡¨ and with the Anniversary it is still warm on the political agenda. If Nick Clegg knows that backing us will mean potentially 15 new seats, I am sure he will be keen. That is without considering the possibility that there may be enough Liverpool supporters in other constituencies to make a difference there too. So how can we achieve this? If people think it is a good idea, these are how I believe we can make it happen: „« We need someone who is much better at computers than I am to set up an electronic petition for the 5 Liverpool constituencies, another for the remaining Merseyside constituencies, and perhaps a further one for the national constituencies. „« Once we have enough signatures, we approach the Liverpool Lib Dem Party and present our idea and the strength of feeling behind it. They will understand the issues and can then present it to Nick Clegg himself. Once he puts it in the Lib Dem manifesto that pressure will be put on the government (if Lib Dems do not get in) for inquests to be reopened without any cut off time (should the individual family so desire), without any further review and delay. He should also be aware that any broken promises will guarantee a low Lib Dem vote in the following election. „« We continue to spread word amongst the general public through the internet and through personal contacts in order to achieve mass support in the Merseyside area (and potentially nationally). „« We then lobby Labour and let them know what we are doing and get them to act ¡V possibly timed with Anne Williams next submission to the Attorney General. Any failure on Labours part will result in them losing these seats )if support is strong enough) Hillsborough has changed the way we watch football, the way police and emergency response training is carried out with a whole new attitude within the organisation, the laws in relation to turning off life support machines and may other things. Why can it not change the political map in our country forever too? Please pledge your support and ideas within this thread in the first instance naming your constituency. As stated earlier, this idea has been given to Tony Barrett and Anne Williams as well as the parents of Paul Clark who died on that day, with positive responses from all of them. If anyone has connections with Trevor Hicks, please forward the idea to him too to gauge the HFSG reaction. I will email this article to Sheila Coleman at the HJC and post it on TLW, RAWK, RAOTL and OTK )one of which you are reading now) but would also be grateful if someone could post this thread on any other Liverpool websites including the official, and perhaps even Blue Kipper and other Everton sites to gauge support from our Cousins in Blue. When people do post elsewhere, please put the link on this website so that we can follow it. People, with enough support, we can really make this happen. Thanks Andy

H eis absolutely right. No-one has retained the European Cup. That is because a previous European Cup is sitting at home in the Liverpool Trophy Room!!!

This evidence was heard in the Stuart-Smith scrutiny. Based on this and other evidence, it was decided that the new evidence would not have effected the final verdict of Accidental Death. Unbelievable.

Me too. It will probably be re-written out of our history by those who have voted themselves the authorities of Liverpool songs.

"Liverpool" clap clap clap. "Li-ver-pool" (repeat - but only at corners of course) "Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool" "L I V E R P double O L Liverpool FC" "We're the barmy Annie Road army la la la la la la la" That about covers it for me. I even forget the words to thoise ones most of the time.

I am undecided on the issue at the moment. Does that mean that I am a Liverpool supporter or not...or perhaps I have not made my mind up yet?

Can you name someone who player Cricket fro England and Football for Scotland?

In this order: 1977 Home Kit (All Red) 1988 Home Kit (All Red) 1977 Away Kit White shirts with Red Trim and Yellow Liverbird, Black Shorts, Red Socks.

Fair comment, but he did not have to do it. He was a very proud man and only apologised for his biggest mistakes - whatever the pressures for him to do so were. Those were what he said about Hillsborough and the above about Peter Taylor. Don't get me wrong, I have never forgiven him for what he said because of the damage done, but I am 100% sure that the apology was sincere, otherwise he would not have made it.

No. The fallout happened whilst at Forest and after 2 european cups. Clough Snr later told of his regret that he never made it up with Taylor. Nigel is a great bloke and he, and the rest of the family were totally against what Brian said about Hillsborough and advised him not to. Never forgiven Brian for that, even though he did later issue an apology and admitted that he had got it totally wrong.

My first ST was 1976/77 and although I cannot guarantee that he was doing it then, I cannot remember anyone else, so I would say more than 30 years.

Actually, the reason is that when he was younger, his parents used to take him to a camp site in Cornwall called Boswinger (which later changed it's name to Seaview International). Contact Us for Camping holidays in cornwall and Self Catering at Seaview Campsite It won loads of awards for being the best camp site in the UK, and you could "eat your dinner off the toilet floor". Only a few miles from Mevigissey Harbour where double flavoured ice creams in a big cone topped with fresh cornish cream was a daily holiday treat. A fish and chip van came around on Fridays and it was an overall great camping experience. Well I presume that is the case anyway. It certainly is for this Andy Gray!!