The MLB Thread

[TheHowieLama]

Used to be loads of talk about how expansion was killing the quality of pitching - now that the boys are off the juice it is a whole different game. I got a team that is hitting .235 punched out 27 straight by Hernandez tonight

[Allan]

Quite a day for the Red Sox.

 

Firstly Carl Crawford is confirmed to be needing Tommy John surgery, and now they've fired their pitching coach.

 

Carl Crawford story

 

Crawford to undergo elbow surgery Thursday

 

BOSTON -- Carl Crawford's second season with the Red Sox started late and ended early. The left fielder will undergo Tommy John ligament transfer surgery on Thursday to repair a tear in his left ulnar collateral ligament.

 

The Red Sox made the announcement early Monday evening. Dr. James Andrews will perform the surgery. The club released the following statement:

"Carl Crawford has a chronic left elbow ulnar collateral ligament tear. While he has been following a conservative treatment protocol and playing with this injury, his symptoms are getting worse. After consultation with the Boston Red Sox medical staff and with Dr. James Andrews, the decision has been made to proceed with a left elbow ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction [Tommy John surgery]. The surgery will be performed by Dr. Andrews on Thursday, Aug. 23. We expect Carl to make a full recovery."

 

The reason Crawford's 2012 season started late was due to left wrist surgery, which he underwent in the offseason. But while he was coming back from that injury, Crawford started to experience discomfort in his left elbow, particularly while throwing.

 

Initially, Crawford and the Red Sox took a conservative approach and tried to avoid surgery. But as the weeks went by, Crawford's elbow didn't get better.

Activated by the Red Sox on July 16, Crawford actually swung the bat far better than he did in his first season in Boston. In 31 games, he hit .282 with 10 doubles, three homers, 19 RBIs and five stolen bases.

 

With 40 games left in the season, the Red Sox trail the Yankees by 13 1/2 games in the American League East, and Boston entered Monday's off-day a season-high 7 1/2 games back in the AL Wild Card standings.

 

If Crawford played through the injury for the final six weeks of 2012, there would have been no chance for him to start the '13 season on the active roster. Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington estimated recently that a position player can return from Tommy John surgery within seven to nine months.

With Crawford two seasons into a seven-year, $142 million contract, the Red Sox would obviously like to get as much as possible from him going forward.

"He's got a UCL injury, and it's pretty clear -- everyone knows that and he's been playing on it," Cherington said. "This is a long-term contract -- he's here for a long time -- so we've got to be sure that we're doing the right thing for him and ultimately for the team, too. This is not a short-term investment."

Crawford's final at-bat of the season was Sunday night against the Yankees, as he hit a single to left in Boston's 4-1 loss.

 

"Carl's given it everything he has," manager Bobby Valentine said Sunday night.

Boston has some depth in the outfield to withstand the loss of Crawford. Scott Podsednik has done a solid job when called on. Daniel Nava has been on the disabled list with a left wrist injury, but he could be back soon. Ryan Kalish has struggled in two stints at the Major League level this season, but he is still an option.

 

Injuries have been a never-ending theme for the 2012 Red Sox. Crawford's DL stint will mark the 30th served by 26 different Boston players this season.

 

 

 

Pitching Coach change

 

BOSTON -- The Red Sox are moving to their third pitching coach in two seasons.

Bob McClure has been relieved of his duties and Randy Niemann, the team's assistant pitching coach, has taken McClure's place. The decision came on an off-day Monday, with the Red Sox four games below .500 at 59-63 and carrying the eighth-worst ERA in baseball, 4.30.

 

"Randy's got a lot of experience, too, he knows our guys well," general manager Ben Cherington said on a conference call. "He's been involved with the pitching staff pretty intimately since the beginning of Spring Training, there won't be any learning curve, that's for sure. He's done most jobs in the game ... we feel like he can be part of the solution."

 

Cherington said he did not envision making further changes to the coaching staff.

 

McClure, 60, was hired in November as a special instructor before the Red Sox hired Bobby Valentine. He was named pitching coach in December. Controversy has surrounded Valentine and the team the entire season, and discord within the coaching staff has been a continuing concern.

 

Niemann, 56, is one of the few coaches whom Valentine is believed to have hand-picked: They were with the Mets together from 1997-02.

 

"This is a performance-based decision," Cherington said. "There's been a really good effort on the part of the staff to work together ... we felt like we needed to make a change to put our pitchers in the best position to do what they needed to do over the six weeks.

 

"We felt like this change was needed to give ourselves the best chance to do that."

 

McClure will not remain in the organization, Cherington said.

"We have great respect for Bob," Cherington said. "The fact is it just wasn't working out, we felt like we needed to make a change."

 

Curt Young spent the 2011 season as the club's pitching coach.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Dodgers-Giants tonight, always a big game but tonight more so.

[WaltonRed]

On ESPN america at 3am

 

Might stay up for it

 

Go Dodgers

[chrisbonnie]

So when is Bobby V getting the sack?

 

He seems a complete pile of shite.

[RedKnight]

Hopefully the surgery will sort out Crawford and he can finally get in the line-up and hit with less pressure than he's faced in his first couple of years. He's hit quite well since he came back from injury earlier in the Summer to be fair to him. This season's a write-off anyway, let everyone get healthy, put things in order and start again in the Spring.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Another sweep for the Giants against the Dodgers.

[Allan]

Braves travel to San Francisco for a 4 game series following the series in DC against the Nationals.

 

Chipper's final (regular season) series against the Giants.

[TheHowieLama]

We made a great move to ditch Crawford at the time. History of niggling ailments that were documented and have caught up with him. Doubt he will ever be the same.

 

Hottest team in the game right now with another group of journeyman.

[Guest ShoePiss]

We made a great move to ditch Crawford at the time. History of niggling ailments that were documented and have caught up with him. Doubt he will ever be the same.

 

Hottest team in the game right now with another group of journeyman.

 

Really? How about them Mariners? Won their last 8 games, still 12 games behind though haha.

[TheHowieLama]

Really? How about them Mariners? Won their last 8 games, still 12 games behind though haha.

 

Kinda like your Timbers though pal - can't get enough away.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Kinda like your Timbers though pal - can't get enough away.

 

Ha, we can't even win at home any more, a 'local' derby this weekend against the Whitecaps this weekend so hopefully that changes.

[Scott_M]

Watching it on ESPN tonight, I actually like watching it on TV. Shame it's so boring live.

[Guest ShoePiss]

You watching dynamite? Giants just exploded getting 4 runs in the 5th. 5-0 up right now.

[Jose Jones]

I notice the Red Sox found another way to lose. 14-13 to the Angels in 10 innings after being up 6-0 and 11-9 going into the ninth.

[Allan]

You watching dynamite? Giants just exploded getting 4 runs in the 5th. 5-0 up right now.

 

In work, mate. Following on Gameday.

[RedKnight]

Potential blockbuster trade coming forward with Boston absolutely cleaning house. Beckett, Gonzalez, Crawford and Punto all possibly being traded to the f'kin' Dodgers! You don't see those very often. Boston just basically pressing the reset button on winter of 2010.

[Allan]

Potential blockbuster trade coming forward with Boston absolutely cleaning house. Beckett, Gonzalez, Crawford and Punto all possibly being traded to the f'kin' Dodgers! You don't see those very often. Boston just basically pressing the reset button on winter of 2010.

 

Link to the story

 

10:00pm: Crawford has the Dodgers on his partial no-trade list and the outfielder has yet to be asked to accept a trade, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). It has been previously reported that Crawford can block trades to two clubs but Heyman writes that Crawford has the ability to block trades to three teams.

 

9:34pm: Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine says that he still expects Beckett to make his start on Saturday, tweets Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.

 

9:01pm: The Dodgers are expected to pick up more than $260MM of the $271.5MM in combined salary that the Red Sox are sending to them, a source tells Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald.

 

6:45pm: The Dodgers have agreed to send Webster, De La Rosa, Loney, Sands, and De Jesus to the Red Sox, a source tells Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter). Meanwhile, a source tells Rob Bradford of WEEI (Twitter link) not to expect a deal to be completed tonight.

 

6:42pm: The Red Sox have yet to secure permission from Beckett, who has 10-and-5 rights, or Crawford, who has a partial no-trade clause, a source tells Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com. However, neither player is expected to block the deal.

 

6:38pm: Pitcher Allen Webster will go to the Red Sox in the trade, a source tells Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).

 

6:15pm: The Red Sox and Dodgers are currently reviewing medical records, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com (via Twitter). The deal would include Rubby De La Rosa, James Loney, Jerry Sands, Ivan De Jesus, and a top prospect, according to Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com (Twitter link).

 

6:04pm: Adrian Gonzalez was scratched from the lineup and summoned from the dugout into the clubhouse along with Nick Punto, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com (via Twitter).

 

5:52pm: There are two deals on the table, one mega deal involving Carl Crawford and another with just Beckett and Gonzalez, tweets Peter Abraham of The Boston Globe.

 

5:48pm: Though the deal may not happen in its current nine-player form, something is expected to happen, tweets Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports.

 

5:10pm: Dodgers minor leaguers in the trade talks have included Allen Webster, Zach Lee, Rubby De La Rosa, and Jerry Sands, tweets Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times.

 

5:06pm: The Red Sox would receive prospects and not just salary relief if the deal happens, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.

 

4:52pm: Boston would send some cash to Los Angeles if the sides complete a deal Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports. Morosi confirms that the sides are close to a trade (Twitter links).

 

4:34pm: The Red Sox and Dodgers are closing in on a trade that would send Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford and Nick Punto to Los Angeles, Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com reports (on Twitter). Hurdles remain, but the sides continue working toward a deal.

 

The Dodgers recently won the claiming rights to Gonzalez and Beckett. Gonzalez can't block a trade to Los Angeles, but Beckett must approve any assignment as a player with ten and five rights. Crawford and Punto cleared waivers earlier this month and can be traded without waiver-related restrictions.

The Dodgers have been willing to take on considerable salaries since their new ownership group gained control of the club at the beginning of the 2012 season. Adding the four Red Sox players would represent a substantial financial commitment:

 

• Gonzalez will earn $21MM per season through 2016 and obtain a raise to $21.5MM for 2017-18. The total exceeds $130MM when accounting for the remainder his 2012 salary.
  
• Beckett will earn $15.75MM per season through 2014. As noted above, he must approve any trade.
  
• Crawford will earn $20MM in 2013, $20.25MM in 2014, $20.5MM in 2015, $20.75MM in 2016 and $21MM in 2017. His contract allows him to block trades to two teams.
  
• Punto earns $1.5MM per season through 2013.
  

The Dodgers claimed Cliff Lee on waivers earlier this month after trading for Shane Victorino, Hanley Ramirez, Joe Blanton and Brandon League. The Dodgers would have to place MLB players on waivers before trading them to Boston, which could complicate trade talks.

[RedKnight]

Trade completed and the Red Sox shift over $200 million in salary commitments and effectively press the reset button on the team. Interesting times ahead.

[chrisbonnie]

Trade completed and the Red Sox shift over $200 million in salary commitments and effectively press the reset button on the team. Interesting times ahead.

 

explain this transfer for me, in laymans terms.

 

they shifted Carl Crawford, who they paid a lot of money for right? who's been an unmitigated disaster, and now requires surgery, am i right in thinking that?

 

also, the red sox have shifted these players, who have they gotten in return, or is it more of a cutting their losses deal?

 

id say Andy Carroll is shitting himself though :whistle:

[Cardie]

explain this transfer for me, in laymans terms.

 

they shifted Carl Crawford, who they paid a lot of money for right? who's been an unmitigated disaster, and now requires surgery, am i right in thinking that?

 

also, the red sox have shifted these players, who have they gotten in return, or is it more of a cutting their losses deal?

 

id say Andy Carroll is shitting himself though :whistle:

 

Think they shift a load of guarenteed money plus get a number of prospects. Crucially it gives them flexibility and 'cap space' to rebuid.

[Geraghty]

Is their manager not a disaster though,is he likely to go?

 

Are the fans unhappy with FSG?

[RedKnight]

explain this transfer for me, in laymans terms.

 

they shifted Carl Crawford, who they paid a lot of money for right? who's been an unmitigated disaster, and now requires surgery, am i right in thinking that?

 

also, the red sox have shifted these players, who have they gotten in return, or is it more of a cutting their losses deal?

 

id say Andy Carroll is shitting himself though :whistle:

 

Basically they were going to be over the luxury tax threshold and had no room for manoeuvre going forward. They needed rid of Josh Beckett as he was stinking the place out and was a possible disruption in the clubhouse. They needed to get out from under Carl Crawford's contract which was $21 million for the next 5 years. In an ideal world they would've kept Adrian Gonzalez but he was the sweetner for the other two. What this means is that Boston have effectively pressed reset on their plans. The last big moves of the Theo Epstein era have been kicked into touch and they're now free to rebuild how they see fit. They've got back an average Major first baseman, two very good pitching prospects and two possible good outfield prospects. What that does is help load their minor league system and give them flexibility going forward. The free agent class this winter is pretty weak so hopefully the Sox will go back to what brought them to the dance, a blend of youth, well scouted 1-2 year deals and longer term franchise players. Sad to see Gonzo go, disappointed that Crawford could never get it going and think it'll probably be better for Beckett that he gets out of the Boston spotlight. Really excited about all of this.

[RedKnight]

Is their manager not a disaster though,is he likely to go?

 

Are the fans unhappy with FSG?

 

Valentine? Who knows, he only has a two year deal. What they might do is extend that by one and let him stay another year. This rebuild isn't going to be done in one year. Are the fans unhappy with ownership? Kind of but this kind of trade goes a long way with extending faith. It's basically an admission that things were going wrong and they're not afraid to try and right it. Patience was wearing thin though. There seemed a lack of decision making but after this trade, there might be now.

[Geraghty]

 

Valentine? Who knows, he only has a two year deal. What they might do is extend that by one and let him stay another year. This rebuild isn't going to be done in one year. Are the fans unhappy with ownership? Kind of but this kind of trade goes a long way with extending faith. It's basically an admission that things were going wrong and they're not afraid to try and right it. Patience was wearing thin though. There seemed a lack of decision making but after this trade, there might be now.

 

Cheers for the info lad.

 

Seems interesting times ahead then.