Sicko...

[Hermes]

As I said:

 

http://www.economist.com/markets/indicators/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9867590

[Christian]

I think all Tories should be shot in the face.

Do I win a prize?

[Paul]

Hey, Chris - ever thought of writing for a living?

[johnb]

The list of the less corrupt would be a very short list.

 

'The Economist', barometer of balanced (even if slightly liberal and even right-wing!) reporting. ;)

 

You still subscribing Dave? I am. Think the quality has declined a little since Emmott left.

[rb14]

Michael Moore, a man with enough money to live in any country he chooses. He chooses to live in the country he constantly criticises.

OK so where exactly would you like him to live? How about he moves to France and criticises America. Would that be better or would he be condemned for not being living in the country he's criticising? It's akin to suggesting that rich people can't be Marxist. Why the fuck not?

 

Chris, an excellent commentary, brilliantly written. It would have taken me a week to write so eloquently. I have little argument with what you say.

 

One of Moore's strengths is his ability to bring these subjects to a mass audience. There are gaping holes in his methodology and research and he certainly makes poor choices in some of his content, but I hesitate to condemn him for it. I wonder whether I would be as critical of him if I lived in America permanently (certainly outside of New York) and had to accept daily batterings from the neocons, the gun lobby, the anti-abortionists, people saying "math", the fundamentalist christians, the momma's apple pie brigade, etc.? God bless America? I think I'd die. I'd be praying for the next Michael Moore film. It's bad enough living here with the disgraceful state of politics in the UK.

 

Whilst I see your point about it "strengthen[ing] the resolve of the right and mak[ing] no difference preaching to a left wing most of whom are fully paid up members of his cause", there is more to it than that. Take "Fahrenheit": The scene where Bush is in the primary school and is told of the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon and just sits there with no idea what to do. I'd have paid £20 for that scene alone. Here is a

and a

. Sorry they're not from the film itself but they give an idea.

 

I disagree with many of the arguments voiced by Peter Tatchell, but I love that he is a dissenting voice and I know that at least we are on the same side of the fence. London is beginning the process of mayoral election. I'd find the choice between Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone (I probably should mention there are other candidates) easy not because I agree with Ken's politics, but because I know he's on my side.

 

Maybe I'm talking rubbish here, I don't know, but I have a deep fear of factionalism amongst the left; trotskyists arguing with leninists for example. I vividly remember student days of the Socialist Workers Party hating the Revolutionary Communist Party - almost more than the Young Conservatives. I mean, how mad is that? I digress. Whilst you're right to point out the shortcomings of his work and there are lots and lots of shortcomings, and whilst I agree he could do things far far better and with more rigour, the danger is that we criticise what he puts out and people then don't bother watching or worse, condemn him as a madman and ignore everything he says.

 

I have reserved until last my anger for the worst failings in your post: "Utopian paradises" is tautological and "palacial" is of course "palatial".

 

What I want from you now is a similarly brilliant essay on Thatcher, Johnson, Blair, Campbell, Tebbit or Archer. 805 words, in on Monday before register.

 

9/10 - See me.

[rb14]

'The Economist', barometer of balanced (even if slightly liberal and even right-wing!) reporting. ;)

 

You still subscribing Dave? I am. Think the quality has declined a little since Emmott left.

That's the same "Economist" that unswervingly supported the attacks on Iraq, yes?

[Spy Bee]

Just to clarify my earlier comment, Alex jones asked Michael Moore why he didn't ask questions about NORAD and other important questions about 9/11 in his documentary. Michael Moore's reply was "It would be unamerican".

[rb14]

Dagnamit! Sorry, Mr Bromley, I can only write about Michael Moore.

It's Ms Bromiley actually, slut. What have I told you about spelling?

 

I came out of it, thinking he was a bit of a fraud and most untrustworthy, but still really valuing his work and celebrating his place in the discourse of American politics.

That is clear and I agree wholeheartedly.

 

I think the biggest danger of this happening comes from within. He needs to clean up his act, dude or risk everything you've alluded to above. I think the world needs him to be more responsible, not just do everything under the guise of this overbearing moral conscience he has.

What emo said.

[Hermes]

'The Economist', barometer of balanced (even if slightly liberal and even right-wing!) reporting. ;)

 

You still subscribing Dave? I am. Think the quality has declined a little since Emmott left.

 

Yes, right wing? you jest?

 

Maybe we have different definitions.

[Budared]

check out the man himself defending his work on cnn

 

in the first part hes a bit upset

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=306358550522591810&q=sicko&total=3405&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

in the second one hes calmed down a bit

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=306358550522591810&q=sicko&total=3405&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Paul]

Crossed my mind once or twice, mate. How's the calf?

 

Loads better. I'm pencilling myself in for a come back in the New Year.

[hamstrung]

Mark Kermode's review of Sicko, and Michael Moore's stuff generally is very entertaining. Its a lot like the stuff you wrote, Chris.

 

I haven't seen Sicko, but the way I see it, as pieces of entertainment his films are OK, but as pieces of social journalism they don't stand up. While they are meant as both, the fact that they are so obviously filled with spurious nonsense, means he is hurting the things he is trying to promote (apart from himself)

[johnb]

Yes, right wing? you jest?

 

Maybe we have different definitions.

 

Right-wing in a liberal, hate government intervention way.

[rb14]

check out the man himself defending his work on cnn

 

in the first part hes a bit upset

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=306358550522591810&q=sicko&total=3405&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

in the second one hes calmed down a bit

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=306358550522591810&q=sicko&total=3405&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

These two clips are the same from what I can see.

 

This is wonderful television and as Moore himself admits, it's to CNN's credit that they gave him live airtime. I love that the title of the clip is about "flipping out" - I hardly think he flipped out. The tagline includes the words "He's a bully with a mouth." Christ. I really despair.

 

• I love that he gives it loads to CNN.
  
• Who asks, in plain and simple terms, "Why are we here? Where ARE the WMD?" in relation to the Iraq war?
  
• Who asks CNN to apologise to the american (let alone Iraqi, I might add) families who have lost their children in the war, CNN having failed to offer any true reporting in the run-up to, and continuation of the war?
  
• Who puts clearly and simply, "there should be NO PROFIT involved when we're talking about people's health?
  
• Who asks why an estimated 18,000 people die every year as a result of having no health insurance?
  

 

And please bear in mind, he's up against the likes of Rudy Giuliani; "Free market principles are the only things that reduce cost and improve quality. Socialised medicine [e.g. the NHS] will ruin medicine in the United States." - my brackets.

 

I ask you.

[mattyq]

The term 'socialised medicine' always cracks me up. It conjures up images of Stalin hacking some poor unfortunate apart on a wooden bench. Brilliant propoganda.

In reality it means that everybody pays for healthcare through their taxes and most things are free at the point of service. Simple

You don't see anybody going on about socialised defence or that goddam socialist army. Surely the private sector would run the army more efficiently using that logic. Crazy

[Hermes]

Mark Kermode's review of Sicko, and Michael Moore's stuff generally is very entertaining.

 

Kermode is full of shit.

[Budared]

my apologies for the link here is the second part

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5RUkyGJ61A

[rb14]

the one thing that stood out to me in that clip was late on when Moore was talking about the democratic candidates for 2008 and Moore says (paraphrased) 'there's one guy who isn't in the race yet, he was right about the war, unlike CNN, he's right about global warming and he's right about this issue too. Al Gore.'

 

Cunt. You horrible horrible own-goal emo cunt. There was me conveniently ignoring that little gem and all of a sudden, right on the money, out pops you and your guilt-ridden self-hatred.

 

I actually couldn't believe he'd said it. I had to rewind (is that the right term for a Youtube clip? Rewind?) it a couple of times to be sure that I'd heard it right. I'm fucked now. Al Gore? Al fucking Gore? Fuck me ragged. Support that name and run for the fucking hills to escape the misery of deafening mockery and ridicule.

 

Soz Chris. As you were babe.

[stringvest]

Michael Moore, a man with enough money to live in any country he chooses. He chooses to live in the country he constantly criticises.

 

A message there for his gullible fans.

 

Because he wants to improve it Hermes. He actually wants to do something about it. And the reason the messages are so obvious, the emotional stuff is layered on so thick, and the case studies so predictable, is because he's talking to Americans. If people find Michael Moore's methods offensive (I find them juvenile and embarrassing), how the fuck do they regard the utter contempt and lack of respect demonstrated every time Bush speaks to the nation. Moore does what he does to try and win the broadest support; he knows full well that it's easy to be cynical about his stuff, but he's trying to make it palatable for the masses. When Bush speaks, it's because he knows that the majority of the voting public are thick, ignorant, dance to the tune of big business, in fact gullible in almost every sense and providing he pulls the right emotional/patriotic triggers, are very likely to vote his party back in, and to be fooled for long enough to ensure him a peaceful rest of term.

[stringvest]

Kermode is full of shit.

 

Agreed. Kermode is a mealy mouthed little gobshite who pays far too much attention to his own hype. And since he went from squealing selfindulgent ramblings on 5 live (where Simon Mayo is far too respectful to the little dipshit) to the elevated intellectual ether that is the Review on Newsnights on Friday he has had to acquire a new vocabulary with mutli-syllable words in it, ala Paul Morley. One tedious cunt.

[rb14]

he has had to acquire a new vocabulary with mutli-syllable words in it

Sickenfackenrickenracken rick rasterdly

[stringvest]

Sickenfackenrickenracken rick rasterdly

 

Drat and double dart.

[Fink]

 

He goes to the nicest hospital in Cuba and has them lay out the red carpet for the American 9/11 rescue victims who have supposedly been abandoned by the US system.

 

A view from the other side.....politicians in general rub their hands whenever they get a chance to stick a finger in the eye of an enemy.

 

Not really connected to Michael Moore, but its understandable when you see the defence budget.

==================================================

 

A few days ago, while analysing the expenses involved in the construction of three submarines of the Astute series, I said that with this money "75,000 doctors could be trained to look after 150 million people, assuming that the cost of training a doctor would be one-third of what it costs in the United States." Now, along the lines of the same calculations, I wonder: how many doctors could be graduated with the one hundred billion dollars that Bush gets his hands on in just one year to keep on sowing grief in Iraqi and American homes. Answer: 999,990 doctors who could look after 2 billion people who today do not receive any medical care.

 

More than 600,000 people have lost their lives in Iraq and more than 2 million have been forced to emigrate since the American invasion began. In the United States, around 50 million people do not have medical insurance. The blind market laws govern how this vital service is provided, and prices make it inaccessible for many, even in the developed countries. Medical services feed into the gross domestic product of the United States, but they do not generate conscience for those providing them nor peace of mind for those who receive them.

 

The countries with less development and more diseases have the least number of medical doctors: one for every 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 or more people. When new sexually transmitted diseases appear such as Aids, which in merely 20 years has killed millions of persons - while tens of millions are afflicted, among them many mothers and children, although palliative measures now exist - the price of medications per patient could add up to 5,000, 10,000 or up to 15,000 dollars each year. These are fantasy figures for the great majority of Third World countries where the few public hospitals are overflowing with the ill who die piled up like animals under the scourge of a sudden epidemic.

 

To reflect on these realities could help us to better understand the tragedy. It is not a matter of commercial advertising that costs so much money and technology. Add up the starvation afflicting hundreds of millions of human beings; add to that the idea of transforming food into fuels; look for a symbol and the answer will be George Bush.

 

When he was recently asked by an important personality about his Cuba policy, his answer was this: "I am a hard-line president and I am just waiting for Castro's demise." The wishes of such a powerful gentleman are no privilege. I am not the first nor will I be the last that Bush has ordered to be killed; nor one of those people who he intends to go on killing individually or en masse.

 

"Ideas cannot be killed," Sarría emphatically said. Sarría was the black lieutenant, a patrol leader in Batista's army who arrested us, after the attempt to seize the Moncada Garrison, while three of us slept in a small mountain hut, exhausted by the effort of breaking through the siege. The soldiers, fuelled by hatred and adrenalin, were aiming their weapons at me even before they had identified who I was. "Ideas cannot be killed," the black lieutenant kept on repeating, practically automatically and in a hushed voice.

 

I dedicate those excellent words to you, Mr Bush.

[theghost]

the one thing that stood out to me in that clip was late on when Moore was talking about the democratic candidates for 2008 and Moore says (paraphrased) 'there's one guy who isn't in the race yet, he was right about the war, unlike CNN, he's right about global warming and he's right about this issue too. Al Gore.'

 

Right, ok Michael. So in 2000, who were you telling everyone to vote for? Ralph Nader, that's who. Those votes in the Nader column and not the Gore column could have been the difference between an unfixable margain for Gore and a fixable margain.

 

So, he's as much to blame as CNN in this respect in getting it wrong in their instructions to the American people. If Moore had used his brains and influence and said "Vote Gore" instead of "Vote Nader" then Big Al might be seeing out his second term in office right now, and the world would be a much, much safer, healthier place.

 

I believe that there was a report done that in both 2000 and 2004, those that voted for Nader were split 50/50 on who they would've voted for had Ralph not ran, so in the end it didn't really make a difference. Could be bollocks, though.

[hamstrung]

Kermode is full of shit.

 

Agreed. Kermode is a mealy mouthed little gobshite who pays far too much attention to his own hype. And since he went from squealing selfindulgent ramblings on 5 live (where Simon Mayo is far too respectful to the little dipshit) to the elevated intellectual ether that is the Review on Newsnights on Friday he has had to acquire a new vocabulary with mutli-syllable words in it, ala Paul Morley. One tedious cunt.

 

I am thoroughly glad you both disapprove of him.