PODCAST: Liverpool 2 Wolves 2 - FA Cup Match Reaction

BUSTED FLUSH!!!

No idea why you both thought trent had a good game defensively. He was totally shit again for their second goal. He has no sense of who is around him or where they are moving to. Happens all the time with him. 
 

the rest of the pod was spot on I think, a bright spot in another very bad day. Glad it isn’t me that have to do these on a day like roday. 

Wasn’t expecting this so early so thanks for it.

I was wondering what’s happened to Bobby, I think we miss him.

We defend poorly, the midfield doesn't exist, our attack is slow in building up play it runs out of ideas quickly and misses too many chances, the only time we show legs is when we misplace a pass and have to all leg it back towards goal. I dont agree with Klopp saying the problem is we aren't winning tackles because we are shit with the ball aswell as without it.

Its hard not to just keep repeating the same shit because we are watching the same shit. Whatever this is Klopp wants to play, these players just can't do it, so either the players change or the tactics do, we cant just keep on and on hoping no change will bring change.

Klopp really is quite conservative as a manager he has his ideas and the lads he trusts, the last time we had this awful form he kept on with failing performances because he didn't trust the defenders he had at his disposal so he played our midfielders in defence making our defence and our midfield weaker in the process. When he finally relented our form changed. Klopps amazing I'd get rid of every single person at the club before him but he needs to manage this situation not just watch it unfold. FSG need to fucking give him a shitload of cash he's earnt it.

I'm past blaming the players - it can't be ALL the players causing the problems. 

I think Klopp has been kidnapped and locked in a basement somewhere. Pep Ljinders has built a lookalike and is using LFC as an experiment for his shit tactics. 

It's the only explanation. 

I don’t know what is wrong, I don’t know how to fix it but I do know that the side we all loved and cherished is gone and it’s never coming back.

The question now is whether Kloppo can build a new one. The early signs aren’t great.

11 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I don’t know what is wrong, I don’t know how to fix it but I do know that the side we all loved and cherished is gone and it’s never coming back.

 

The question now is whether Kloppo can build a new one. The early signs aren’t great.

The line up from Klopp's first game would beat this lot at the moment. A bit of effort from the opposition and we're lost. 

Keita feckin Keita , seriously, how bad is our injury list for this fuckwit to still get on the field?

Mo is lost, he looks and plays like a shadow of himself every time we play, he just seems to be losing the ball more and more, turning into Sterling, how many chances before actually doing anything.

I wish I’d been on that pod last night. I’m not having a pop because things are very grim at the moment, but it was the most downbeat, relentlessly negative pod that I think can remember (certainly for the first half, at least). 
 

I think there are clear and obvious explanations for why we are where we are, and I also think that we’re not looking enough as fans at the fact that we are already significantly down the road in terms of transitioning this team.

For me, it’s absolutely glaring that the midfield is key and that is where the lack of intensity stems from. It’s also very much the point that Dave briefly touched on in the pod which is that our press is supposed to be a whole team endeavour, but if one of the team is not able to do it effectively then everyone else looks bad. We’re not compact enough and we don’t cover the ground with enough intensity. 

You could see it clearly last night from The Kop. There were big gaps where the front players had pushed (including Mo!!!), but then no one filled in behind - or if they did, they didn’t have the legs to get to where they should be. 

It is 100% about legs in midfield and everything else that’s going wrong has stemmed from our mental and emotional response to that. 
 

There is a reason back when we were smashing everything that Klopp used to defend to the hilt the composition of his midfield and say how important it was for them to do those nuts and bolts jobs. For many, many years, people questioned Gini and said he didn’t have any impact on games and yet now he is widely being cited as the perfect example of what we need. 

In my view, the two things are not mutually exclusive: you can have absolute class and threat on the ball alongside intensity on and off it. For me, that is exactly why Klopp is so focused on Bellingham because he offers everything. 
 

I really do believe that the injection of one pair of fresh legs in this window in midfield is essential if we want to have a chance of top four because this season is in danger of running away from us even though we’re not quite at the halfway stage yet; but I also believe that with three new midfielders ahead of next season, things will click into place. 

I’m not saying it will be immediate, because we’ve still got lots of new players who need to find their rhythm – especially the forwards who are not used to playing together or playing under these tactics. However, I do not see things even in the medium term anywhere near as bleakly as most seem to (I don’t just mean the lads on the pod last night).

I don’t think the club expected the miles to catch up on the midfielders quite as quickly or immediately as they have done (especially in the case of Fabinho), but it’s clear that they were already planning for it. They knew what needed to happen and plans are in place. Those plans were clearly disrupted by the impact of Covid on both our finances and transfer model and back room changes have added further complexity.

But the plans are obviously in place and as long as those plans come to fruition, I think we will be absolutely fine. In fact, not just fine, we will thrive again. 

Klopp is the best manager we’ve ever had and I’m convinced that things will quickly settle, and then come good, with that caveat about fresh legs being inserted into the midfield key, of course. 

I just want to reiterate that I’m not having a pop at the lads on the pod (or indeed anyone who’s feeling understandably downbeat right now). I think the point that the boys mentioned about our ridiculous highs over the last few years in the context of City’s cheating, explain why we are collectively reacting so negatively to what we’re seeing. However, I just do not see any parallels with previous teams at Liverpool simply because there are clear reasons for what’s on show.  And those reasons are eminently addressable.

23 minutes ago, Paul said:

I wish I’d been on that pod last night. I’m not having a pop because things are very grim at the moment, but it was the most downbeat, relentlessly negative pod that I think can remember (certainly for the first half, at least). 
 

I think there are clear and obvious explanations for why we are where we are, and I also think that we’re not looking enough as fans at the fact that we are already significantly down the road in terms of transitioning this team.

 

For me, it’s absolutely glaring that the midfield is key and that is where the lack of intensity stems from. It’s also very much the point that Dave briefly touched on in the pod which is that our press is supposed to be a whole team endeavour, but if one of the team is not able to do it effectively then everyone else looks bad. We’re not compact enough and we don’t cover the ground with enough intensity. 

 

You could see it clearly last night from The Kop. There were big gaps where the front players had pushed (including Mo!!!), but then no one filled in behind - or if they did, they didn’t have the legs to get to where they should be. 

 

It is 100% about legs in midfield and everything else that’s going wrong has stemmed from our mental and emotional response to that. 
 

There is a reason back when we were smashing everything that Klopp used to defend to the hilt the composition of his midfield and say how important it was for them to do those nuts and bolts jobs. For many, many years, people questioned Gini and said he didn’t have any impact on games and yet now he is widely being cited as the perfect example of what we need. 

 

In my view, the two things are not mutually exclusive: you can have absolute class and threat on the ball alongside intensity on and off it. For me, that is exactly why Klopp is so focused on Bellingham because he offers everything. 
 

I really do believe that the injection of one pair of fresh legs in this window in midfield is essential if we want to have a chance of top four because this season is in danger of running away from us even though we’re not quite at the halfway stage yet; but I also believe that with three new midfielders ahead of next season, things will click into place. 

I’m not saying it will be immediate, because we’ve still got lots of new players who need to find their rhythm – especially the forwards who are not used to playing together or playing under these tactics. However, I do not see things even in the medium term anywhere near as bleakly as most seem to (I don’t just mean the lads on the pod last night).

 

I don’t think the club expected the miles to catch up on the midfielders quite as quickly or immediately as they have done (especially in the case of Fabinho), but it’s clear that they were already planning for it. They knew what needed to happen and plans are in place. Those plans were clearly disrupted by the impact of Covid on both our finances and transfer model and back room changes have added further complexity.

 

But the plans are obviously in place and as long as those plans come to fruition, I think we will be absolutely fine. In fact, not just fine, we will thrive again. 

Klopp is the best manager we’ve ever had and I’m convinced that things will quickly settle, and then come good, with that caveat about fresh legs being inserted into the midfield key, of course. 

I just want to reiterate that I’m not having a pop at the lads on the pod (or indeed anyone who’s feeling understandably downbeat right now). I think the point that the boys mentioned about our ridiculous highs over the last few years in the context of City’s cheating, explain why we are collectively reacting so negatively to what we’re seeing. However, I just do not see any parallels with previous teams at Liverpool simply because there are clear reasons for what’s on show.  And those reasons are eminently addressable.

Of course it’s addressable, mate. Everything is. The NHS crisis is addressable, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset about the state of it. I take your point though.

Was saying to Dan last night before we went in that, for me, the biggest failing under Klopp has been his lack of ruthlessness with Ox and Keita. To my mind, that’s way worse than the decision to give Hendo four more years in his 30s. If he’d moved Ox on in summer ‘21 and Keita last summer, we’d be in far better shape in midfield right now.

The way you stop players like Hendo becoming jaded is by giving him competition for his place; giving him new challenges. That’s why Bob’s old adage of “two out, two in” was so important. The one thing we seem to have let go and done badly at over this golden period is that.

The best teams need to continually evolve, not just tactically but in terms of personnel.

The other thing that strikes me about a more proactive approach to the freshening our midfield over the last couple of years is that it would’ve been more cost effective and also more affordable. Now everyone knows we’re desperate, the prices will go up. Also, it would’ve been a far better midfield group to bring a 23/24 year old prospect into two years ago than this one. Now we need players who are ready to have immediate impact and they cost more.

Just now, Chris said:

Of course it’s addressable, mate. Everything is. The NHS crisis is addressable, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset about the state of it. I take your point though.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t be upset; I was hugely pissed off last night as I left the ground and am now very worried about this season. In fact, if we don’t get at least one player into that midfield during this window, I think things could get really bad. 
 

What I’m saying is that I don’t think the medium term prognosis matches the general mood of the fans which appears to be getting into the realms of, “It’s all over”. 

I think its impossible to determine how critical/fatal this drop off is until we get at least 2 new midfielders in.  However I don't think 'fixing' the midfield will magically sort everything out.  The constant individulal errors to me smack of a lack of intensity and focus. It isn't just this season either, It was very present last season but we managed to overcome it.  Something isn't quite right on the training pitch,  What we are are working on is either not transpiring out on the pitch or we are simply working on the wrong things.  There is also a definate hangover from last season, not helped with such a short summer break.

The players simply haven't turned rubbish overnight but we are currently in our worst sustained period of form since Klopp took over.  We are nearly half way through the season I can probably count on one hand the number of good performances we've had this season.

51 minutes ago, Paul said:

I’m not saying we shouldn’t be upset; I was hugely pissed off last night as I left the ground and am now very worried about this season. In fact, if we don’t get at least one player into that midfield during this window, I think things could get really bad. 
 

What I’m saying is that I don’t think the medium term prognosis matches the general mood of the fans which appears to be getting into the realms of, “It’s all over”. 

But it is all over. What we had, at least. When things are flying, there’s no uncertainty. When it falls apart all that’s left is uncertainty.

It’s totally fine to have confidence that we can rebuild and get back to where we were but you can’t be certain it will happen. I think the mood is completely understandable.

2 hours ago, Brownie said:

I don’t know what is wrong, I don’t know how to fix it but I do know that the side we all loved and cherished is gone and it’s never coming back.

 

The question now is whether Kloppo can build a new one. The early signs aren’t great.

The question is whether he'll be given the funds to do so, without having to rob Peter to pay Paul.

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Was saying to Dan last night before we went in that, for me, the biggest failing under Klopp has been his lack of ruthlessness with Ox and Keita. To my mind, that’s way worse than the decision to give Hendo four more years in his 30s. If he’d moved Ox on in summer ‘21 and Keita last summer, we’d be in far better shape in midfield right now.

 

Who was buying them? Should we have let them go on a free?

If that was the only option then yeah, probably. Clear the decks to get people in who will actually contribute. It was never going to happen though because Klopp doesn't break contracts and if a player wants to stay then he doesn't force them out. Ox might have left but he got injured and wasn't back again until well after the window had closed.

Meant to post this here but put it in wrong thread for some reason.

The thing with Klopp teams is when one bit goes wrong it all goes wrong - it is like a car engine when one part breaks, it affects the working of another part.

We are very much a unit that has to have all the different components working properly for the whole thing to work - a better analogy than a car engine may actually be clockworks - every cog needs to work properly because every cog has to work properly for the clock to show the right time.

The midfield is broken for all the reasons I and many others have repeated time and time again - we don't win enough challenges, we don't win enough 2nd balls, we lack mobility, athleticism and legs, we don't sense and snuff out danger, opposition players run past and through us, we leave too many gaps and too much space, we lose way too much from broken play, the press is dead because we can't physically do it and the physical failing to do it leads to it causing all sorts of knock on problems, our players in wrong places and opposition players able to get in places we don't want them  - and it is all causing the defence and the attack to suffer to different degrees and in different ways.

We won't fire properly or keep and tell the right time until we fix the midfield - and even any new forwards or even defenders we might or have added in would/will not be 100% effective no matter how good they are until those other engine parts or cogs are properly fixed.

I believe we need 3 new midfielders and if i was running things it would be 1 this month and 2 in the summer - the 1 this month won't totally fix us of course, but it might just improve things enough to get us Top 4 - my gut feel though is we need to accept the scale of the midfield rebuild for the massive job it is and accept that we are in transition and that the full fix can't be done this season and therefore full effectiveness won't be seen until next.

For me it needs to look like this Oxlade, Keita, Milner gone before start of next season.

Hendo takes up the Milner role of last couple of years or so.

3 new midfielders across this window and the summer in - midfielders with the attributes we sorely lack and who will be key to the core of our team for the next 5 years plus....ala the way the old front 3 were.

We start next season with the following as our midfield squad.

New signing

New signing

New signing

Thiago

Fabinho

Henderson

Jones

Bajcetic

Elliott

The big challenge between now and then and the real killer is that practically every team is going to do the same thing to us until we have put the fixes in and continue to punish us from broken play/beating us in challenges/winning 2nd balls and take advantage of our total inability to deal with the transitions that happen as a result.

We have to find a way in the short term to patch that up and somehow get something good out of this season.

For me it's reached the point where I'm now extremely concerned about the remainder of this season. Things could really unravel now.

This was pretty much 20th placed Wolves second team and, while they didn't play us off the park, they looked our equal and we are extremely fortunate to still be in the competition because that goal should have stood. 

Klopp has to be bold now for me because, at the moment, we're going into every game setup like sitting ducks. We need to try something different or at least be more unpredictable to the opposition. Why not try 4-2-3-1 now and again, or setup with 3 centre backs occasionally? What's clear from this season is that we don't have the personnel to play the way Klopp and Pep want us to, but we seem to be persevering despite all the evidence to the contrary. 

We need 3 new midfielders, at the bare minimum, in time for next season because there's question marks over all of our current lot. We have 3 leaving but there should be more paying the consequences for this mess. Why can't we let Fabinho or even Hendo's legs fall off on somebody elses watch? They've all been great servants but we're not a charity. Likewise Bobby - what the fuck are we thinking offering him a new deal? He's a shadow of his former self and clearly deteriorating season after season but we're in talks to give him a new deal. Mind boggling. 

3 hours ago, dave u said:

If that was the only option then yeah, probably. Clear the decks to get people in who will actually contribute. It was never going to happen though because Klopp doesn't break contracts and if a player wants to stay then he doesn't force them out. Ox might have left but he got injured and wasn't back again until well after the window had closed.

Personally I agree wholeheartedly but I don't think our transfer strategy would have allowed it either.  We're the "cleverest" in the business remember. Sarcasm aside, we don't like to let our players go for peanuts never mind on a free, it's not the image we present. It's what the club deems market value or they stay. 

12 hours ago, Moo said:

 

The question is whether he'll be given the funds to do so, without having to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Why would fsg back him when he's leaving soon, Klopp's just going to plug holes for the next manager and he can rebuild. 

3 hours ago, Butch said:

Why would fsg back him when he's leaving soon, Klopp's just going to plug holes for the next manager and he can rebuild. 

three and a half years is a pretty long time. 

14 hours ago, Moo said:

 

Personally I agree wholeheartedly but I don't think our transfer strategy would have allowed it either.  We're the "cleverest" in the business remember. Sarcasm aside, we don't like to let our players go for peanuts never mind on a free, it's not the image we present. It's what the club deems market value or they stay. 

Yeah that's true. It's not worked particularly well in recent years though. We made good money on Coutinho, Ibe, Solanke, Neco and deals like that, but then Wijnaldum, Can and Origi all left on frees, Ox and Keita will follow and Nat Phillips is still here because no-one will meet our valuation of him. We've lost money because of the refusal to lower valuations.

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Yeah that's true. It's not worked particularly well in recent years though. We made good money on Coutinho, Ibe, Solanke, Neco and deals like that, but then Wijnaldum, Can and Origi all left on frees, Ox and Keita will follow and Nat Phillips is still here because no-one will meet our valuation of him. We've lost money because of the refusal to lower valuations.

And because Covid disrupted the market and therefore our selling model. 

Good moaning pod that I needed to hear as I've missed the previous moaning pod.  Even better response to the pod from @Paul to give me a little but of hope.

One question though, but you didn't discuss the Wolves jammy 2nd goal?  When you brought it up said "we've already discussed it" and moved on?  Or am I missing something?  I don't remember it being discussed, or did I just miss that discussion at the start of the pod?