Would It Matter Who Was Manager?

[spider-neil]

the bottom line is this;

 

in the four seasons rafa has been here has

 

* won the CL

* won the fac

* got to the final of the CL

* got to the semi-final of the CL

* got to the final of the CC

* given us CL football every season he has been here

 

for the money he has been given to spend do you seriously think we deserve more? you could argue maybe he should have produced one league challenge in four years but I'm of the opinion given the money of chelsea (already in place before rafa arrived) and the experience of manu and aresnal's managers (already in place before rafa arrived) I personally didn't expect a challenge for at least three seasons.

[Xabi D]

People complain about money yet Rafa's getting £20m for the second successive summer to spend on ONE PLAYER, unprecedented levels of spending for us.

 

Wake up people we're Liverpool, we should expect more.

[hamstrung]

.

[spider-neil]

.

 

do you think its wrong to 'expect' a league challenge?

[hamstrung]

I posted in the wrong thread, hence the '.'

[Rashid]

the bottom line is this;

 

in the four seasons rafa has been here has

 

* won the CL

* won the fac

* got to the final of the CL

* got to the semi-final of the CL

* got to the final of the CC

* given us CL football every season he has been here

 

for the money he has been given to spend do you seriously think we deserve more? you could argue maybe he should have produced one league challenge in four years but I'm of the opinion given the money of chelsea (already in place before rafa arrived) and the experience of manu and aresnal's managers (already in place before rafa arrived) I personally didn't expect a challenge for at least three seasons.

 

Jesus Christ, Neil are you listing some of those as "achievments"?

[Dublin Red]

So you still believe we have spent less than the Mancs recently?

 

Do you want to get your sums together and I will get mine?

 

 

Just off the top of me head :

 

Utd main signings over last 2 seasons :

 

Anderson £15m

Nani £15m

Tevez £35m

Carrick £18m

Hargreaves £18m

 

There are probably more but that alone is £101m on just FIVE players.

 

Can you give me Rafa's purchases over the last 2 seasons ?

[spider-neil]

Jesus Christ, Neil are you listing some of those as "achievments"?

 

yes frankly I am, has the level of arrogance from liverpool fans risen to the level that cup finals are dismissed because we haven't challenged for the league?

 

the level of expectation should be measured agaisnt our current situation not our past if expectation goes hand in hand with past achievements then forest should be angry they aren't in with a shout of the league.

[spider-neil]

also

 

if you temper your expecations with a realistic view based on money spent and rival strength = defeatist :whatever:

 

the reality is manu and chelsea have several players in their squad who were purchased at over 20m AND have strength in depth as well.

 

its true that rafa could have taken the path of expensive signings and done away without trying to add depth to the squad (a squad of around 14-to 16) but an injury would almost certainly see us struggle for a place in the top 4.

 

rafa's approach has been slow and it has left many fans fraustrated but patiance is needed we are bit by bit becoming stronger in every position and in a few years will (hopefully) see the fruits of the youth system, its fair to expect a league challenge but that expectation should be realistic.

[Thants]

To a normal football fan, a player and a manager, yes they are achievements. To an internet-driven manic wantitall, probably not.

[Rashid]

Just off the top of me head :

 

Utd main signings over last 2 seasons :

 

Anderson £15m

Nani £15m

Tevez £35m

Carrick £18m

Hargreaves £18m

 

There are probably more but that alone is £101m on just FIVE players.

 

Can you give me Rafa's purchases over the last 2 seasons ?

 

When did Manchester United spend £35m on Tevez? I don't remember them spending that money somehow which makes your sums redundant.

 

Benayoun £5m

Babel £11.5m

Torres £20m

Mascherano £17m

Leto £1.8m

Insua £1.3m

Itandje £2m

Skrtel £6.5m

Lucas £6m

 

I work that lot out at £71.1m, we sold Garcia, Cisse, Bellamy, Gonzalez, Palleta, Sissoko for a combined £30m.

 

Fregie has bought Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Kszciak for about £51m plus a £6m loan fee for Carlos Tevez.

 

They also sold Heinze, Smith, Rossi and Richardson for about £25m.

[Hamma]

Rashid, think its on today's Soccernet but the article mentioned that Tevez was on a $5million per year loan and that Manchester United had agreed to purchase him for a record $35 million.

[Rashid]

They haven't agreed that yet and they haven't bought him yet. He is still on loan and it wouldn't matter for last years calculations anyway which is what the issue here is.

[spider-neil]

They haven't agreed that yet and they haven't bought him yet. He is still on loan and it wouldn't matter for last years calculations anyway which is what the issue here is.

 

they have enjoyed the services of a 35m player they have just delayed when they actually bought him.

[Rashid]

they have enjoyed the services of a 35m player they have just delayed when they actually bought him.

 

They have paid £5m a season for it, a loan deal is a loan deal and you can't add it to their spend figures - grow the fuck up and stop clutching at straws.

[G Richards]

I haven't read the thread yet - I'll go back and look through it, but I wanted to give my answer to the question before it was influenced by reading the thread.

 

Would it matter who was manager?

 

I think that arguably we could possibly have done slightly better (especially in the league) with another manager; but then equally, we don't really know that, and there is a lot of scope to do a lot worse than Rafa has done.

 

Rafa is the right man. Let him get on with it. The league performances in the second half of last season filled me with great hope that, by and large, Rafa is starting to crack it. Carry on Rafa, and bring us no.19.

[Rashid]

I haven't read the thread yet - I'll go back and look through it, but I wanted to give my answer to the question before it was influenced by reading the thread.

 

Would it matter who was manager?

 

I think that arguably we could possibly have done slightly better (especially in the league) with another manager; but then equally, we don't really know that, and there is a lot of scope to do a lot worse than Rafa has done.

 

Rafa is the right man. Let him get on with it. The league performances in the second half of last season filled me with great hope that, by and large, Rafa is starting to crack it. Carry on Rafa, and bring us no.19.

 

I think we would have done better in the league with another manager no doubt about it. How many would surrender to Reading?

[Carra_is_legend]

I haven't read the thread yet - I'll go back and look through it, but I wanted to give my answer to the question before it was influenced by reading the thread.

 

Would it matter who was manager?

 

I think that arguably we could possibly have done slightly better (especially in the league) with another manager; but then equally, we don't really know that, and there is a lot of scope to do a lot worse than Rafa has done.

 

Rafa is the right man. Let him get on with it. The league performances in the second half of last season filled me with great hope that, by and large, Rafa is starting to crack it. Carry on Rafa, and bring us no.19.

 

I read the thread and nearly forgot the purpose of the thread until you reminded me.

 

I too think Rafa is still the man and our form in the 2nd half of last season was championship form. However, it is now upto Rafa to carry on from where we left last season. I hope that he doesn't fuck around too much with the formation and the players this season.

[Thants]

[stringvest]

Wouldn't it be great if we started the season like we finished the last? I just hope he doesn't rest any of our top players too early in the campaign. Benitez is right, in that early rotation helps us to finish the season strongly, but that's only good if you're a cup team.

[Rashid]

How can you expect the team to finish the way the last one ended? Every bloody season we buy loads of new players. I'd rather we bought nobody this summer rather than buy so many new players.

 

This August and just in the first team starting position alone we will have Keane, Dossenna, Probably Carra at right back, a New Centre Midfield player etc.

[Carra_is_legend]

Wouldn't it be great if we started the season like we finished the last? I just hope he doesn't rest any of our top players too early in the campaign. Benitez is right, in that early rotation helps us to finish the season strongly, but that's only good if you're a cup team.

 

That is my worry this season mate. Especially Torres, Babel and Mascherano - I just hope these people are not rested too much because they played in the european championships and olympics.

 

There will be enough opportunities to rest them once Keane (and probably Barry) have got adjusted to our way of play. Fuck the FA cup and Carling cup this season - they can all sit out these games - unless we draw Everton or Utd in the cups early on. Otherwise, I hope Rafa plays his strongest team in the premiership all the way. If we qualify for the next round of CL with 2/3 games still to play, the big boys can sit out of these games too.

 

Better to go up 2-0 after 60 mins and then rest them rather than substitute them and hope for a goal when we are trailing 1-0 after 70 mins.

[Carra_is_legend]

Rashid, the left back needed addressing. Riise was just shit.

 

Keane - I'm surprised you bothered to mention him in your list after years of you crying out for a no.10. Which is exactly what he will be.

 

Carra at right back - you are assuming this will happen. Stop assuming.

 

Barry - we haven't signed him yet and the last time I read, we needed to sell Alonso if we want to sign Barry. None of it has happened yet. So, hold fire. We may yet buy a winger.

 

Other than that, we have signed a freebie in Degen who is not even guaranteed a first team place.

[Dublin Red]

When did Manchester United spend £35m on Tevez? I don't remember them spending that money somehow which makes your sums redundant.

 

Benayoun £5m

Babel £11.5m

Torres £20m

Mascherano £17m

Leto £1.8m

Insua £1.3m

Itandje £2m

Skrtel £6.5m

Lucas £6m

 

I work that lot out at £71.1m, we sold Garcia, Cisse, Bellamy, Gonzalez, Palleta, Sissoko for a combined £30m.

 

Fregie has bought Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Kszciak for about £51m plus a £6m loan fee for Carlos Tevez.

 

They also sold Heinze, Smith, Rossi and Richardson for about £25m.

 

You have included Mascherano for us at £17m but he was on loan for the year with us. Why wont you do the same for Tevez ? Ferguson had a player valued at £35m this week for last year and now they are going to stump up the cash to make it permanent. You HAVE to include his value when calculating how much Utd are spending on players.

[Carra_is_legend]

You have included Mascherano for us at £17m but he was on loan for the year with us. Why wont you do the same for Tevez ? Ferguson had a player valued at £35m this week for last year and now they are going to stump up the cash to make it permanent. You HAVE to include his value when calculating how much Utd are spending on players.

 

No you don't. Utd haven't actually paid the £35m yet. They paid the loan fees for him for a year - thats all. We, on the other hand, have actually paid the £17m for chief.

 

I'm not bothered about your argument with Rashid, but thought I will let you know anyway.