Iniesta

[Nick Leeson]

That is absolute rubbish, he was rotting in Milan's B and C teams and was going nowhere fast. He bought him and developed him into a world class player. Players we have bought ready for "developing" Le T, Pongolle, Babel etc have not turned out the same have they? Wenger is untouchable when it comes to developng young players, he would be a good academy director when he retires!

Rashid, I don't think you can use Wenger as an example. His scouting has produced freakish results but he hardly ever buys players of the age of 26, all the young players he buys are dropped in the reserve and youth teams for a while and taught the wenger way to play but most of all, it isn't working for them is it? I mean yeah they can be fantastic to watch, yes he makes a lot of money selling players on but they haven't won anything in a long time now.

 

I think his earlier strategy was very good in that he was buying a mixture of exciting young players with quaity older ones and putting together a strong team but now it just seems like a team of spring chicken harlem globe trotters who can be breathtaking one game, yet dog shit the next.

 

Very Roy Evans-like.

[Nick Leeson]

I don't think they're the greatest examples really as I think only Alves would have guaranteed an improvement. Walcott was a risk, Malouda hasn't been a success, Simao is rated yet was stuck at Benfica for 6 years? I think only alves was a banker from that lot.

[Jay Glover]

Gerrard, Carra, Agger, Xabi and Reina would now cost £80m.

Iniesta, Xavi, Etoo, Henry and Messi would now cost over £150 and that's assuming Messi is only £50m

 

Your turn.

 

A fairer comparison would be to total up our front 5 - Alonso, Kuyt, Riera, Gerrard and Torres. £50m.

 

I'd say their attack is better.

 

Alonso, Torres and Gerrard are three of my favourite players but the point I was making is that you don't need BILLIONS to sign top players - how much did Iniesta, Messi, Puyol and Xavi cost?

 

Utter Bollocks

 

This discussion should of stopped here, when one party spouts rubbish like this how is it possible to have a reasoned debate?

 

Rashid, please fuck off!

[Catch22]

I hate that net spend shit. The player he's sold are the players he bought the previous season. If he'd got it right the first time then they wouldn't have had to be fucking sold. It just goes round in circles because maybe that proves that he should have been given his £20m+ per season and the cumulitive cash from sales but there's many arguments for and against this.

 

Only the transfer fees get mentioned but not the signing on fees which aren't recouped on sale so maybe he has had it. Without really knowing the accurate figures it's all just speculation really.

 

Either way, as far as I'm concerned the only figure that should be looked at is the amount spent because that is indicitive of how many stabs at the transfer market and in my opinion it's too many considering the same 4 corners of the side still need addressing and have for the duration of his tenure.

 

 

Consider products such as housing or cars where most people buy an entry model & then sell to upgrade as they go along.

 

Some people change a lot more than others, often for legitimate reasons (ie/ moving job locations/relationship change for the house)

 

Their total turnover spend is irrelevant is assessing how that process has gone.

 

x buys a house for £200k,sell it for £250k after nominal inflation then moves due to a reloaction & then buys another similar house for £250k

y buys a £200k house now worth £250k due to the same general inflation.

Their position is exactly the same. In your world, x has spent £450k for a £250k house, which is wrong.

 

Transfer purchases are a risk which means some fail whilst some succeed.

 

Most people suffer from "Loss aversion" which is why the most common gambling/investment error is to hold onto losing positions for too long rather than cut the mistake.

 

Rafa doesn't do that which is a significant reason behind his overall market success (Paul Stewart could have been moved for a £0.75m loss after his 1st season here but wasn't; the Mancs would bite anyone's arm off if they could get rid of Berbatov for a £5m loss now which we managed with Keane)

 

All of these considerations pale into relative insignificance besides wages anyway as Degen or Kewell should have taught us.

(& signing on fees go into wages in the accounts so you can measure them extremely accurately as it is the Law)

 

& on that basis our out-performance compared to anyother elite European club is striking.

[RedKnight]

Utter Bollocks

 

This discussion should of stopped here, when one party spouts rubbish like this how is it possible to have a reasoned debate?

 

Rashid, please fuck off!

 

This isn't the greatest contribution either to be fair.

[Nick Leeson]

Consider products such as housing or cars where most people buy an entry model & then sell to upgrade as they go along.

 

Some people change a lot more than others, often for legitimate reasons (ie/ moving job locations/relationship change for the house)

 

Their total turnover spend is irrelevant is assessing how that process has gone.

 

x buys a house for £200k,sell it for £250k after nominal inflation then moves due to a reloaction & then buys another similar house for £250k

y buys a £200k house now worth £250k due to the same general inflation.

Their position is exactly the same. In your world, x has spent £450k for a £250k house, which is wrong.

 

Transfer purchases are a risk which means some fail whilst some succeed.

 

Most people suffer from "Loss aversion" which is why the most common gambling/investment error is to hold onto losing positions for too long rather than cut the mistake.

 

Rafa doesn't do that which is a significant reason behind his overall market success (Paul Stewart could have been moved for a £0.75m loss after his 1st season here but wasn't; the Mancs would bite anyone's arm off if they could get rid of Berbatov for a £5m loss now which we managed with Keane)

 

All of these considerations pale into relative insignificance besides wages anyway as Degen or Kewell should have taught us.

(& signing on fees go into wages in the accounts so you can measure them extremely accurately as it is the Law)

 

& on that basis our out-performance compared to anyother elite European club is striking.

Sorry mate I'm not going to be patronising or sarcastic in an effort to make my point but I don't think you analogies are fitting.

 

I'm not saying he's had 50 million to but a right winger i'm saying he's had plenty of chances and plenty of money (10 transfer windows now I think) to address some problems which are consistently unsolved. If he chose to spread the cash and get quantity over quality then that's his call and he has to stand by it which I'm sure he is quite confident in doing but I and many others question this as a lot of the players who have come and gone are not players from the positions we've ever really had problems with.

 

His financial focus and his scouting resources should have been more highly focuses on the wings and fullbacks in my opinion as they have been for a long time, the weakest part in our chain. Of course the midfield and strikers could have been upgraded but they weren't as imperitive as the width problem.

 

We've made do with shitty wingers and full backs in a never ending quest for the perfect spine. I think we had that a year ago now so all of last years efforts should have been about width but they weren't they were abou tKeane and Barry. This was hooojeee mistake and I do think we have paid the price for that this year as this season was a massive opportunity for us to take a title as no one can argue that the competition as been spread far more evenly across the division this year than any other I can remember for a long time.

 

We should have been making do with the spine we had until we had sorted the width out because it's harder to find good players in those positions and when you do they cost more as clubs are more reluctant to let go of them.

[Unrighteous]

LFD: Don't forget Ashley Young.

 

Also, Vieira was immeadiately put into first team football and he didn't 'develop' it just came together. Vieira was a solid footballer when purchased.

[Guest LFD]

LFD: Don't forget Ashley Young.

 

Also, Vieira was immeadiately put into first team football and he didn't 'develop' it just came together. Vieira was a solid footballer when purchased.

 

That's what I thought.

[Xherdan]

Barca just after scoring another incredible goal. 1-0 v Valencia.

[ToxtethTerror]

Solid footballer or not, he was found in a reserve team. Wenger knew what many didn't. Even Anelka contributed to that double win at age 17. So you don't need 5 years to be able to scout unknown Players.

[Trumo]

Outstanding footballer.

[James Dean]

Fantastic player. Seriously fast as well.

[The Dude Abides]

I don't think they're the greatest examples really as I think only Alves would have guaranteed an improvement. Walcott was a risk, Malouda hasn't been a success, Simao is rated yet was stuck at Benfica for 6 years? I think only alves was a banker from that lot.

 

I'm sure i've read this exact same post before somewhere. Freaky.

[James Dean]

2-1 Balenthia. Cracking game.

[George Costanza]

Victor Valdes will cost Barca the CL semi against Chelsea. He's absolutely fucking shite

[rebel23]

Arsenal have got fantastic attacking options and just need to sort out their defence and maybe a midfielder though I think you can get away with that in most cases.

 

People underestimate the value of wingers

 

look at what they did at Anfield, had to be the worst Arsenal team in ages, defensively at least and with that idiot in goal but still they got a draw. with Nasri, Arshavin and Walcott fit I doubt many teams will get much at the Emirates which means they would be bang in contention for the title.

 

My worry is our scouting geniuses will go for Downing and we'll have those annoying draws again...

[The Dude Abides]

Victor Valdes will cost Barca the CL semi against Chelsea. He's absolutely fucking shite

 

Cech is very much in the same boat.

[RSM]

Arsenal signed Nasri, Eduardo, Adebayour, Van Persie, Fabregas and Arshavin for £48m - I'd say thats not a bad front 6 for that money.

 

Is this the same Arsenal that have consistently achieved far less than us while Rafa has been in charge since 2004 while completely overhauling our squad?

[Mendoza]

Can't be bothered reading any of this thread. Would just like to say he looks like he's been drained of most of his blood.

 

[ToxtethTerror]

Is this the same Arsenal that have consistently achieved far less than us while Rafa has been in charge since 2004 while completely overhauling our squad?

 

We have achieved the CL win and spent far more money on transfers. We both have an FA Cup win and a CL final appearance. They finished ahead of us in the league last season and we have roughly done about the same league performance wise these past 5 years. I am not sure about achieving "far less". We have achieved a bit more maybe. For instant we have both not won anything for 3 years and they like us have rebuilt a squad.

 

This was really about the signing of attacking players which I think they are better than us at.

[jackofdk]

 

This was really about the signing of attacking players which I think they are better than us at.

 

No way?!? Please elaborate on that.

 

It's such an interesting point of view, I can't believe it hasn't been touched on before.

[Kopite]

We have achieved the CL win and spent far more money on transfers. We both have an FA Cup win and a CL final appearance. They finished ahead of us in the league last season and we have roughly done about the same league performance wise these past 5 years. I am not sure about achieving "far less". We have achieved a bit more maybe. For instant we have both not won anything for 3 years and they like us have rebuilt a squad.

 

This was really about the signing of attacking players which I think they are better than us at.

 

Seriously now Rash, why don't you support Arsenal?

 

You never slag them off, in fact you admire them immensely. You consistently offer them up as some sort of utopian football club plus they are closer to you.

 

And we have achieved much more than them with a manager who's got much less experience of English & European football.

[The Infamous_LF]

We have achieved the CL win and spent far more money on transfers. We both have an FA Cup win and a CL final appearance. They finished ahead of us in the league last season and we have roughly done about the same league performance wise these past 5 years. I am not sure about achieving "far less". We have achieved a bit more maybe. For instant we have both not won anything for 3 years and they like us have rebuilt a squad.

 

This was really about the signing of attacking players which I think they are better than us at.

Why in every thread I venture into are you giving metaphorical blowjobs to anything Arsenal related.

 

They need supporters you know don't fucking bore me with those spineless, trinangle passing, no mixing of play pussies.

They are cunts supported by cunts and owned and managed by cunts.

[GJM]

Thing is, I know a number of Arsenal supporters who would be very happy if Wenger was politely moved to a position in the club where his responsibilities were limited youth development. They feel that the first team has suffered as a result of his mania for young players, and that their relative lack of silverware these past few years is essentially down to mismanagement of the first team, which should be every club's priority.

[red is cool]

I apologize as this post is not exactly connected to Iniesta in any way

 

The fact is that even though he's a gifted manager, he wouldn't have been merely as successful if was playing by the rules. It is a fact that Arsenal has been shipping 12 year old Ivorian kids across continents to their academies in India. According to the laws of FIFA, bying players aged under 18 from outside the EU is not allowed. Arsenal, as well as the mancs, barca, and CSKA London are all cheaters so does it really suprise you once they got new super talents popping up all the sudden. Through his good friend Jean Marc Guillou, Wenger has managed to build up an incredible scouting network, breaking and bending the rules as they see fit to secure promising young talent. Arsenal even bought another football club, Belgian KSK Beveren. The whole shabang was so shady the Belgian police was convinced that the mafia was involved.

 

The reason why we seem to always miss out on the great talents is simply because we dont cheat like everyone else does.