PODCAST: Brighton 3 Liverpool 0 - Match Reaction

I don't really get the deflection of blame from Thiago. Yes he makes the odd tackle but most of them are useless interceptions from throw ins - how many of them lead to us winning back possession? Most of the time he is so far away from the play you don't realise he's on the pitch. All the midfield have been shite, him included. Henderson and Fabinho at the moment are looking worse probably because they actually get near the ball but inexplicably for Fab he's not putting the tackles in (Henderson has always been like this).

Most recent games we've been struggling to keep possession and that's where you would expect Thiago to excel and exert some control but he's as bad as the rest. Yesterday he was playing more advanced and was getting literally walked past by the Brighton defenders, and by the time he'd 'ran' back to the half way line, Alisson was already taking a goal kick. 

As the most forward midfielder, I can't remember one decent attack he built, and his passes forward are nearly always over hit by some distance. 

Excellent work, fellas - a great listen.  As usual, I found myself agreeing with so much of what you said.

We are all searching around for answers, and I love how you arrived at 4 or 5 possible ways forward during the discussion, but actually weren't fully convinced that any one of them was definitively what we should do.  It's what a group chat is all about.

Like Brownie I actually laughed at one point during the match - incredulous laughter must be one of the stages of footballing grief.

I agree that playing a big hitter next is a good thing, but I do have to say that I think Chelsea are nowhere near the mess many think they are.

I also think our injury list may be a bit worse than we all think it is.  I fear Darwin and Bobby may be gone longer than we'd hoped.

The Villa game really led me to believe that we are on our way back - the patterns and pace were re-emerging.  Since then it has just fallen off a cliff.

I agree that Jurgen's greatest strength might be his greatest weakness.  He needs to get ruthless.

Also, I too wanted to get Madrid in the next round.  Just in the hope that a big night with passion and emotion would galvanise us.  I am resigned to the fact that it won't... 

On a final point, if the country is ever at the mercy of another killer virus and having to go into a prolonged Lockdown, can we get Paul to address the nation - I am sure he will find a positive for us all to cling to!  Love your reluctance to ever fully give up hope, mate!

5 minutes ago, Planet Origi said:

I don't really get the deflection of blame from Thiago. Yes he makes the odd tackle but most of them are useless interceptions from throw ins - how many of them lead to us winning back possession? Most of the time he is so far away from the play you don't realise he's on the pitch. All the midfield have been shite, him included. Henderson and Fabinho at the moment are looking worse probably because they actually get near the ball but inexplicably for Fab he's not putting the tackles in (Henderson has always been like this).

 

Most recent games we've been struggling to keep possession and that's where you would expect Thiago to excel and exert some control but he's as bad as the rest. Yesterday he was playing more advanced and was getting literally walked past by the Brighton defenders, and by the time he'd 'ran' back to the half way line, Alisson was already taking a goal kick. 

 

As the most forward midfielder, I can't remember one decent attack he built, and his passes forward are nearly always over hit by some distance. 

I agree, but I also think individual performances hinge so much on the team dynamic.  And currently it is a mess.  For example, when the front line went to press, on more than one occasion I saw a player glance over his shoulder, checking he was right and someone else was going with him.

The knock-on effect of this is that people are second-guessing eachother, and runs are late/early, and passes end up going astray, or are delayed to the point of negation. 

I do take the point that Thiago is a problem, but I don't think we're looking in the right place to single him out.

Personally, I'd like to go to a back 3 as I think the space behind Trent would be easier to cover, and it will give us a more solid base to work from, but I just can't see us experimenting with such a big shift.

Thiago has been easily the least shit of the midfield. Doesn't mean he's been good though.

We've got a team full of world and international class players who would get into 90% of teams in the game. But I'm not here to play the blame game, it's crass and unnecessary.

1 hour ago, johnsusername said:

We've got a team full of world and international class players who would get into 90% of teams in the game. But I'm not here to play the blame game, it's crass and unnecessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Things have gone shit since this crap came out. We'll go to pens and win on Tuesday and beat Chelsea. 

1 hour ago, Planet Origi said:

I don't really get the deflection of blame from Thiago. Yes he makes the odd tackle but most of them are useless interceptions from throw ins - how many of them lead to us winning back possession? Most of the time he is so far away from the play you don't realise he's on the pitch. All the midfield have been shite, him included. Henderson and Fabinho at the moment are looking worse probably because they actually get near the ball but inexplicably for Fab he's not putting the tackles in (Henderson has always been like this).

 

Most recent games we've been struggling to keep possession and that's where you would expect Thiago to excel and exert some control but he's as bad as the rest. Yesterday he was playing more advanced and was getting literally walked past by the Brighton defenders, and by the time he'd 'ran' back to the half way line, Alisson was already taking a goal kick. 

 

As the most forward midfielder, I can't remember one decent attack he built, and his passes forward are nearly always over hit by some distance. 

This is just nonsense, and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.  He made two tackles in his own area that prevented certain goals.  Thiago is expected to do all the forward passing, maintain midfield control, and do all the tackling, because there is no-one else doing anything in that midfield.  As others have said, he has been the only one in that midfield putting any sort of performance in for weeks, playing every game, and running himself into the ground because there's no fucking help from either of the two frauds stealing a living.

1 hour ago, dave u said:

Thiago has been easily the least shit of the midfield. Doesn't mean he's been good though.

no one man can do everything. 

Great summation. I’ve seen a few you tube channels with various analysis, but you guys hit it on the head. What about a You Tube channel guys? TLW.

What I’ve taken away is that the same players are getting injured - the players that know the off the ball system, or that are settling into it. Bobby, Diogo, Luis & Nunez - and I include Mane in that, in the sense that its the first season w/o him, and his replacement will need a shit load of time to step up.

2 seasons ago, VVD got injured, and it was a crucial injury. We were left with a deficit in defence, because of a recruitment issue. Somehow, we recovered w/o VVD.

This season VVD is not the only repeat injury - as mentioned, Bobby & Diogo etc. There’s simply not enough experience over the whole pitch to stick to the plan.

We are rebuilding. Slowly, but it’s happening. Time is required, and more recruitment is necessary. This season could be over for us in terms of our goals set. We’ll just have to deal with it. It might almost be a blessing in disguise if we don’t get into Europe, from a footballing perspective. Next season would certainly be easier with fixtures, and we’d have a chance of embedding the new players with good recovery times. Revenue will be up with the new Anny Road. The new players will settle and learn. Gakpo and Nunez are excellent players. There will be new blood in midfield. New signings as well as Elliott, Doak & Carvalho being that bit older & more experienced.

We go again.

It has to be the worst collective performance I've watched. We are in deep shit. Top 4! We won't be anywhere near it.

That's a poor football team, probably the worst in the division right now.

My main concern is getting to 40 points. If, and its a big if, we get to 40 and have enough to stay up, then we need to evaluate how we move forward for next season.

If FSG don't sell, which I think is most likely, we're going to be mid table at best, and the likes of Allison, Salah, Gakpo are going to be sold in the near future. The likes of Hendo, Thiago, Fabinho will be here until they retire.

If they do sell, we may challenge the other sportswashers, but we'd be one of them too, and our soul would be gone to the highest bidder!

Is there a middle ground? There could be but FSG will never release enough funds to compete.

In other words, we're screwed!

Enjoyed that listen thanks fellas.  I actually prefer listening when we have lost, not sure why.

Just to pick up on a couple of points, and I think they were both made by Paul so maybe optimism is not my thing (!) but...how anyone can still say there's definitely big big money available for transfers, I have no idea?

And on Klopp being too loyal to Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita, as said on another thread...anyone saying we've kept Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita too long needs to accept FSGs transfer strategy (that we simply do not sell players below our valuation )and keep in mind that if we know they can't be relied upon, are always out injured, and are a wage drain then everyone else knows that too.  So with that in mind, why would any club pay a fee plus enormous wages for them?

40 minutes ago, Moo said:

Enjoyed that listen thanks fellas.  I actually prefer listening when we have lost, not sure why.

 

Just to pick up on a couple of points, and I think they were both made by Paul so maybe optimism is not my thing (!) but...how anyone can still say there's definitely big big money available for transfers, I have no idea?

And on Klopp being too loyal to Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita, as said on another thread...anyone saying we've kept Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita too long needs to accept FSGs transfer strategy (that we simply do not sell players below our valuation )and keep in mind that if we know they can't be relied upon, are always out injured, and are a wage drain then everyone else knows that too.  So with that in mind, why would any club pay a fee plus enormous wages for them?

Because our financial plan has seldom been short term and knee-jerk, even we are having a bad season, if you look at table before the Brentford game, we were doing relatively well considering we are not having a good season, even if not playing well. Falling off a cliff has been accelerated over the past three games and is probably seen (by the purse holders) as a bewildering collapse of confidence, exacerbated by injuries to most of the frontline. Even when we were desperate for central defenders we didn't go out in the short term and buy an expensive player, we brought in a loanee and did a deal for a player that didn't even play, motivated by making money on the transfer.   

So, we may still have a huge transfer pencilled in for Bellingham in the summer (we may not, but it is not impossible) and one other midfielder because the money man expect Klopp to solve the current issues and intend to stick to a longer term reconstruction. Hence Gakpo and not a midfielder. It's a different mindset to the fans.

On the money thing, we've hardly spent despite bringing in loads. And regardless of what many fans think of our chances of signing Bellingham, the club think they have a strong chance of getting him (and Nunes) so that's going to be £150m or so. That money is there, but they won't spend now because those players aren't available now.

We can argue about whether thats the right way to do it or not, but the mere fact that we're chasing Bellingham shows there's money there.

As for youtube, it's something that I've considered but the problem is that most of the other lads have what you'd describe as "a face for podcasts".

YouTube would be a challenge. For the first few minutes of this one I was scoffing a full English so was grateful for Pauls lengthy opening monologue.

Nobody wants to see that.

I’ll ignore Dave’s comment as I’m ageing like a fine wine me (can wine go off?)

18 minutes ago, Brownie said:

can wine go off?

Sometimes goes 'corked' which I believe is similar!

13 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Sometimes goes 'corked' which I believe is similar!

Okay that works. I’m ageing like a fine corked wine.

Spotify are suggesting I listen to the Holtecast, they obviously think we're done. Fuck that, ever the optimist I still think we will finish ahead of Villa.

7 hours ago, Moo said:

Enjoyed that listen thanks fellas.  I actually prefer listening when we have lost, not sure why.

 

Just to pick up on a couple of points, and I think they were both made by Paul so maybe optimism is not my thing (!) but...how anyone can still say there's definitely big big money available for transfers, I have no idea?

And on Klopp being too loyal to Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita, as said on another thread...anyone saying we've kept Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita too long needs to accept FSGs transfer strategy (that we simply do not sell players below our valuation )and keep in mind that if we know they can't be relied upon, are always out injured, and are a wage drain then everyone else knows that too.  So with that in mind, why would any club pay a fee plus enormous wages for them?

Ox and Keita should’ve been released or sold on cut price deals. As for money, the published accounts prove it. Check Swiss Ramble on Twitter for a full analysis. 

6 hours ago, SasaS said:

Because our financial plan has seldom been short term and knee-jerk, even we are having a bad season, if you look at table before the Brentford game, we were doing relatively well considering we are not having a good season, even if not playing well. Falling off a cliff has been accelerated over the past three games and is probably seen (by the purse holders) as a bewildering collapse of confidence, exacerbated by injuries to most of the frontline. Even when we were desperate for central defenders we didn't go out in the short term and buy an expensive player, we brought in a loanee and did a deal for a player that didn't even play, motivated by making money on the transfer.   

 

 

So, we may still have a huge transfer pencilled in for Bellingham in the summer (we may not, but it is not impossible) and one other midfielder because the money man expect Klopp to solve the current issues and intend to stick to a longer term reconstruction. Hence Gakpo and not a midfielder. It's a different mindset to the fans.

 

 

I think the comments on the Podcast (listened to it last night) were that some of the big money should be used now to bring forward a transfer. That to me would mean big money on at least two "big" players, one now and one in the summer.  But that may not have been the intention. I should have asked in my initial reply, what constitutes big big money?

6 hours ago, dave u said:

On the money thing, we've hardly spent despite bringing in loads. And regardless of what many fans think of our chances of signing Bellingham, the club think they have a strong chance of getting him (and Nunes) so that's going to be £150m or so. That money is there, but they won't spend now because those players aren't available now.

 

We can argue about whether thats the right way to do it or not, but the mere fact that we're chasing Bellingham shows there's money there.

I think it "suggests" rather than "shows".

FSG seem quite keen on things being suggested.

21 minutes ago, Paul said:

Ox and Keita should’ve been released or sold on cut price deals. As for money, the published accounts prove it. Check Swiss Ramble on Twitter for a full analysis. 

They should have, I'd have given them two away for peanuts but I don't believe FSGs transfer strategy would have allowed it.  Why is Nat Phillips still here? Because no one has met the clubs valuation. 

Money wise, I have/do read Swiss Ramble and I think it said ~£60m profit, correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't think that's big big money these days but even if it said £260m profit it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be made available for transfers, does it?

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

I think the comments on the Podcast (listened to it last night) were that some of the big money should be used now to bring forward a transfer. That to me would mean big money on at least two "big" players, one now and one in the summer.  But that may not have been the intention. I should have asked in my initial reply, what constitutes big big money?

 

 

As I understand it, your point was along the lines that if there was big money, if would have been - would be spent now, when the reinforcements are urgently needed, whilst as I understand Paul's point from the podcast, it isn't necessarily so, because some kind of structure, preliminary deals would already have been in place with agents and players for the summer. By big big money I would think something along the lines of what Dave is saying, "Beligngham plus Nunes" around 150 mil.

Looking at how we did things in the past, we would not jeopardize this to move now for different targets (assuming our primary targets are not available now), Klopp has 11 midfielders to choose from , all except Arthur are available (he is supposed to be as of next month too) so the manager is expected to use them to find a solution. We are unlikely to move for new midfielders with high earners like Keita and Ox still on the payroll and available to play.

Totally agree that there are red flags everywhere. On and off the pitch. I mean, fucking hell, even the owners don't want to be here. The players look like they'd rather be anywhere else. Poor Jürgen looks like the only one who gives a shit. 

11 hours ago, Moo said:

 

I think the comments on the Podcast (listened to it last night) were that some of the big money should be used now to bring forward a transfer. That to me would mean big money on at least two "big" players, one now and one in the summer.  But that may not have been the intention. I should have asked in my initial reply, what constitutes big big money?

 

 

 

I think it "suggests" rather than "shows".

FSG seem quite keen on things being suggested.

 

 

 

They should have, I'd have given them two away for peanuts but I don't believe FSGs transfer strategy would have allowed it.  Why is Nat Phillips still here? Because no one has met the clubs valuation. 

 

Money wise, I have/do read Swiss Ramble and I think it said ~£60m profit, correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't think that's big big money these days but even if it said £260m profit it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be made available for transfers, does it?

We don’t pay for deals in full up front. Also, the amortised/FFP costs are getting quite low due to players coming to the end of contracts, signing new ones or leaving. 
 

The money is always there for players: we’re one of the highest spenders - and payers - in the world. It’s not that we won’t spend big money; it’s more that we’re quite (too, in my view) cautious about how we’ll spend it. And to be fair, that policy has delivered every major trophy in the game. 

Just finished listening to it on my bus journey to work this morning.  Not much to say as it's all just doom and gloom.  But that's where we are.  I will say however that no pod episode ever has finished better than this one did.  The exact suicidal tone was perfectly set with "Will we just end it". 

8 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Just finished listening to it on my bus journey to work this morning.  Not much to say as it's all just doom and gloom.  But that's where we are.  I will say however that no pod episode ever has finished better than this one did.  The exact suicidal tone was perfectly set with "Will we just end it". 

Think it was actually, “We will just end it” followed by me  and  Brownie pissing ourselves.