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Liverpool 3 Arsenal 1 (Sep 28 2020)

     

     
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    Dave Usher

This sets the record straight somewhat. It wasn’t quite the mauling of Arsenal that I had hoped for but it’ll do. Some Arsenal fans had started to get a little bit carried away after those two most recent clashes between the sides and saw themselves as our equals when the truth is they’re nowhere near. The gap is massive.

 

We dominated them at the Emirates but gifted them two goals and we should have beaten them in the Community Shield. We didn’t though and all of a sudden people were talking about Arteta having our number. They needed putting back in their box and this has gone some way towards doing that.

 

We were brilliant from start to finish and showed that Arsenal are nowhere near our level. That being said, Arsenal are clearly better than they were because this level of performance would have been enough to see us beat them by ten not so long ago. They did well to dig in and stay in the game in the face of the relentless pressing they were subjected to and how good we were with the ball.

 

They should probably feel pleased with themselves because the two previous results they had against us were flukes and by no means any indication of a “closing gap”. If anyone connected to Arsenal is disheartened by the gulf there was between the two sides in this game then it’s because they had kidded themselves into thinking the gap wasn’t as big as it is.

 

We’re so much better than everybody else right now. We’ve never been this much better than all of the competition, not even in our 70s and 80s heyday. I know not everyone is comfortable saying this in case it blows up in our faces, but it’s true, we’re miles better than everyone. Over the last two seasons we’ve averaged 98 points. 

 

Whereas our closest competitors Man City have grown weaker year on year, we’ve kept all of our players and now added Thiago and Jota which makes us even stronger than the team that averages 98 points. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players already have it in their heads to try and beat last year’s 99 point total, as they’ll need to set themselves targets this year if nobody is going to push us.

 

I know we’re only three games in but I’m not basing it on that. I’m basing it on the last couple of years and the general strength of our squad compared to everyone else. Seriously, who is going to be able to live with us this season? City won’t. United won’t. Chelsea won’t. Spurs? Nah. Arsenal won’t either, although unlike the rest of our ‘big six’ rivals they do at least seem to be on an upward curve.

 

So are we though. We’ve still got the potential to get better. An already great team has now become even stronger by adding one of the best midfielders in the world and another forward who plays the same way as those we already have and thus gives us great depth. Thiago wasn’t even playing in this game and look how dominant we were. It’s scary how good we might be when he is playing.

 

It’s probably worth pointing out that we were not only without Thiago for this one, but Henderson, Matip and Oxlade-Chamberlain were all unavailable too. Thankfully Alisson made it despite a pre-match fitness scare. He had very little to do but when he was needed he came up big with a save when it mattered.

 

He had no chance with the Arsenal opener though. A complete fluke and totally against the run of play. It might have been the first time they got out of their own half. Credit where it’s due, they played their way out nicely and got Maitland-Niles in down the left. His cross looked like it would be cut out by Virg but he couldn’t reach it. Robbo was there behind him but he made a brutal mistake and his mis-kick teed up Lacazette. He too mis-kicked it, and because Alisson had committed himself to where the shot would have gone if it hadn’t been completely spooned, he was unable to reach it as it looped over him.

 

Fucking hell. Not gonna lie, I was shaken by that. It was too early in the game to say I was worried as such, but it did have me cursing Arsenal and their incredible spawn against us. Why do we keep just fucking gift wrapping them goals? It’s infuriating. And Robbo of all people? He’s probably the most reliable player we have, he never makes mistakes. 

 

Fucking spawny bastards. They surely couldn’t fluke another result against us? Thankfully no, they couldn’t. Some magic from Salah allowed Mané to equalise soon after and then we were back in total control again.

 

Great goal that, and credit to the ref too for playing advantage when I was cursing him for not giving the free-kick. I didn’t think there would be any advantage but turns out there was. The touch from Mo to go inside Tierney was pure filth. Yes, he’s quick and he’s a strong little fucker too, and that helped, but the touch to go past him on the inside was outrageous. 

 

His shot was saved but Mané was on hand for the tap in. Look at Sadio’s movement though. He’s wanting a pass to begin with but as soon as Mo takes another touch to cut inside he just drifts off the back of the defender looking for a rebound. Brilliant from both of them.

 

The second goal was class too. Trent had started the game in sensational form, spraying passes around and whipping in brilliant crosses, so it was no surprise he created the goal. It was a little surprising that it was Robbo scoring it though. Again, Mané showed great football smarts in the way he drifted in to create space for Robbo coming in behind him. Sadio couldn’t win the header but because he’d pulled Bellerin in with him Robbo was all alone at the back post to control and finish. 

 

Great stuff. I’m expecting somewhere between 5-8 goals from Robbo this year. He’s got it in him to do it, just needs to sharpen up his finishing a bit. This was an encouraging start and no doubt he’ll have felt extra special because it made up for his mistake.

 

After that it was just a case of how many we’d score, but frustratingly the third goal wouldn’t come. We continued to play great football and the pressing was phenomenal, but Arsenal did play better in the second half and managed to get out of their own half much more than they had in the first.

 

People are going way overboard about them though. I’m hearing all sorts of shit praising Arteta and Arsenal for “sticking to the way they play” and “being brave” by playing out from the back. It’s fucking nonsense. They’re copying Guardiola by having the keeper playing one twos with his centre backs in their own six yard box. If you want to do that against Palace or Burnley or whoever then sound, have at it. Repeatedly trying it against us when IT’S CLEARLY NOT WORKING though is just fucking arrogance and hubris of the highest order. 

 

It was the same with Lampard last week. It’s great for us and I should be made up when teams do that, but weirdly I find myself just getting increasingly pissed off at the sheer fucking ego of it all.

 

Arsenal (and Chelsea last week) kept doing the same thing and we kept either taking the ball off them or forcing them into knocking it out of play. It worked once in the whole game and they ended up with a spawny goal from it. ONCE!! How many times did we rob them in their own third? Had to be at least twenty times. There’s nothing brave or clever about it, it’s just stupid, irresponsible, negligent shite and the net result is Chelsea and Arsenal were both soundly beaten because of it.

 

We play out from the back too, but not like that. We play out from 25 yards away from goal. These fuckers are trying it from their own byline. It’s crazy to do that against a team that presses like we do. Man City have done it and got away with it to some extent but even they don’t try it every time. Arsenal did this under Emery too and he was roundly slaughtered for it. Arteta is lauded though. I guess being Smithers to Pep’s Mr Burns has it’s advantages when it comes to how people perceive you. 

 

Arsenal would have a goal kick and do the exact same thing. Leno to Luiz, then to one of the other centre backs, back to Leno or Luiz and then out to the wing back who was invariably now stood by the corner flag because they’d been forced so far backwards. David Luiz can do this all day and probably never give the ball away because he’s quality in possession. The rest of them though?

 

Rob Holding had a decent game defensively and he’s actually played well against us the last few times. He does not want the ball fizzed into his feet with Sadio Mané flying to close him down though. He must have been cursing Arteta and his “I wanna be like Pep” style of footy.

 

As I say though, it was perfect for us and our lads were smelling blood all night. They don’t often get to do this because most managers are pragmatic enough to change their style and avoid playing into our hands. When you’ve got these ego driven cunts like Lampard and Arteta (albeit to a slightly lesser extent because unlike Lampard he does actually seem like he might be a capable manager) insisting on playing “their” football instead of doing what’s best for that particular game, then it’s like Christmas morning for our boys.

 

On another day we’d have added a couple more goals and Arsenal would have been well out of it, but the longer it stayed at 2-1 the more chance there was of them getting another underserved result against us. They were always going to have one moment and it came when Lacazette went through after Trent had played him onside but thankfully Alisson stood big to deny him. 

 

Much is being made of that missed chance but even if he’d scored I’m sure we’d have just gone and scored another one or two and won the game anyway. 

 

I thought Sadio going off was a strange one. He didn’t look happy at all and understandably so as he was the best player on the pitch at that point. He’d been fucking phenomenal and he was like a man on a mission all night. It felt like he must have taken the last couple of results against Arsenal personally as he was hugely fired up. Perhaps a little too much so.

 

In the first couple of minutes he completely flattened Bellerin and then seconds later he was on the opposite side of the field decking Tierney. I don’t think he should have been sent off but it was close. Not quite a red card because it wasn’t an elbow to the face, but it nearly was and he was probably close to being sent off for that. The referee got it right but on another day, with another official, Sadio might have been severely punished there.

 

I was genuinely surprised he was subbed because he was tormenting Arsenal with and without the ball. Personally I’d have taken Bobby off but what the fuck do I know. Jota came on to play in Sadio’s left wing spot and could have had a hat-trick. Klopp knows what he’s doing.

 

It’s nice for Jota to get off the mark so quickly as the last thing you need is to have to wait for that first goal. It’s important for his confidence because although he’s a talented player and wouldn’t have made it this far without believing in himself, it still has to be a little daunting coming from Wolves to the World Champions and knowing that the level you’re required to play at is the level set by Salah and Mané. 

 

If he wants to play, that’s the standard he’ll need to be at. The good thing is he’s made a fast start and he’s part of a squad that welcomes everybody. Sadio will have been as pleased for Jota as anyone, because he knows that we needed a more natural alternative to him (and to Mo) than we had in the squad.

 

I didn’t like some of the implications made on commentary about Mo when he took that chance of Jota’s foot and tried to score himself. This whole “Selfish Salah” thing is just too easy for people to throw around at times.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve criticised Mo for his tendency to get greedy at times in the past but I honestly didn’t have any issue with what he did there. Or course it didn’t look good because he didn’t collect the ball and score, but he was entitled to go for that. 

 

It was a little too far in front of him and he couldn’t quite get it, but in that split second he didn’t have time to think. The idea that he’s seen Jota and gone to himself “I’ve just set you up and you missed, so this one is mine” is just a steaming pile of Zlatan. He acted on instinct. 

 

Jota had been in position to get a shot away but this was just an instinctive thing where Mo is running at full speed into the box and genuinely believes he can collect it in stride and score. Had he been able to get it under control then it would have been a much better chance for him to score than it would have been for Jota to take a touch, set himself and then get his shot away.

 

The problem is he couldn’t quite get there and then it just looks terrible. I don’t put that down to greed at all though, it was just a player in a split second backing himself to reach a ball that ultimately was just beyond him. Pretty sure Klopp saw it the same way, although Jota might feel differently!

 

Salah was fucking brilliant all night. His work rate was incredible and he tormented that left side of the Arsenal defence. He’s in great form right now, as is Sadio. Having Jota around is only going to help with that as not only does it allow us to occasionally rest them when needed, but if Jota performs well then it provides genuine competition.

 

And based on this, I think that’s what we already have. Jota isn’t going to be starting ahead of Sadio or Mo any time soon but he looks like he fits this team like an arse in a bucket. He should have scored earlier following brilliant set up play by Mo, but he stuck at it and was rewarded when a Luiz header dropped to him on the edge of the box and he controlled it before steering a shot perfectly into the corner.

 

Every single player was right over to him and you could see how happy they all were for him. Klopp said afterwards that he’s had his eye on Jota for two or three years but it’s about the time being right. That’s how we operate now. There’s no point signing 19/20 year old who aren’t going to be ready to play. Wait until they reach 23/24 and are at the level required to come in and play.

 

That’s what we did with Sadio and Mo. They were ready to explode when we signed them and maybe Jota is too. I can’t wait to se more of him now.

 

So that goal killed off Arsenal once and for all. Other than the Lacazette chance they never really threatened. There were other chances that wouldn’t have counted because they were offside, but as Klopp pointed out to pretty much every reporter he spoke to afterwards, that’s just not a good way of doing things.

 

In theory it makes sense. Don’t stop an attacking move for offside in case they aren’t offside. The video can confirm it afterwards. So yeah, good idea in theory. In practice though its shit, because it’s taken responsibility away from the linos and they are told not to flag unless it’s blatant. Well hardly any are ‘blatant’ on first view to the naked eye, so what we’re seeing is no flags going up and play continuing even when players are offside. 

 

And when it doesn’t end up in a goal they don’t need to use VAR, so all of these ‘chances’ that it looks like we’ve conceded are actually nothing of the sort. It was happening a lot last season but it’s even worse now because they just aren’t flagging at all.

 

It’s only a matter of time until someone is injured either making a challenge or spinting back to chase an offside player, but that’s not my biggest problem with it. I remember complaining about this a couple of times last season but it felt like I was the only one bringing it up until Klopp did after this game. 

 

By not putting the flag up, play continues. Fine. But sometimes the ball then goes out for a corner which is allowed to stand because they don’t go back to check for offices when there is no goal scored. So what happens if a team then scores from the corner? Basically it’s tough shit, the goal counts. I don’t like it at all. The rule is the same for everyone but it’s going to be more harmful to us than most because we play a high line to catch opponents offside.

 

Anyway, it’s not going to change any time soon and in comparison to the bullshit new handball interpretation we’re seeing every week it’s really not that big a deal. 

 

Speaking of big deals, I don’t know what kind of wages Gini is asking for but unless he’s taking the piss then give him that fucking contract. He’s been a huge part of the success we’ve had and he’s in his prime now. He’s fucking brilliant and does whatever the situation demands. Get him signed up.

 

For most of this game he kept things simple, filled gaps, pressed diligently and was generally just typical unsung Gini. When it’s needed though, he’s so much more than that. The last twenty minutes of this game he was fucking unreal. Turbo charged Gini showed up and it was great.

 

It’s like in the old NBA Jam game when a player would make three shots in a row and then go “on fire” and become faster and jump higher than everyone else. That was Gini in the closing stages of this game. He just stepped up the pace and Arsenal couldn’t get near him. He was sprinting 50 yards past some of his own team-mates just to go and press the goalkeeper.

 

The midfield as a whole performed really well, especially without Hendo and Thiago. Fabinho was just utterly dominant from start to finish while Gini and Keita were really good with their positioning and pressing. With the ball I thought Naby didn’t really do much and it was no surprise that he was replaced by Milner. The options we’ve got in midfield when everyone is available is just…. wow. 

 

We could have a first three of Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago. A back up trio of Gini, Ox and Milner and then a third combo of Grujic, Keita and Jones. I’ve probably missed somebody as we’ve got so many options it’s almost impossible to predict our line up for the domestic cups now. On that note, I can’t wait for Thursday’s game.

 

Anyway, back to this one and Arsenal did have one opportunity late on that may or may not have been offside (I think it was just on) when Aubameyang finally got clear in stoppage time. Had he scored it wouldn’t have effected the result, but Gomez was not going to let that happen. He chased him back, stayed on his feet and then made the block. Klopp celebrated it like a goal.

 

He was proper fired up about this wasn’t he? And rightly so. Arsenal have frustrated us the last couple of times we’ve met so he’ll have been made up to not only dominate them again but to actually get the result that reflects the performance. 

 

Poor Roy Keane though. He spends the entire night absolute salivating about how good we are and then he makes one poorly worded throwaway remark just at the moment Klopp is listening in and ends up with a flea in his ear! 

 

He wasn’t wrong. We were sloppy on a couple of occasions but equally I can see why Klopp would be annoyed if he thought that the main take away from the game was a couple of rare lapses in an otherwise phenomenal display.

 

It’s actually a back handed compliment when you think about it. When any other team concedes a goal or gives up a chance or two, it’s just football. It happens. How often do you go through a game against any Premier League side, let alone one of the better ones containing one of Europe’s top strikers, and not give up any chances? It hardly ever happens.

 

But because Klopp’s team is so good, so dominant, and has set such sky high standards over the last couple of years, when an opponent even so much as gets near our goal it results in criticism and inquests about whether we have a problem defensively. As I say, it’s testament to just how good we are that an opponent creating a chance or two is even seen any kind of talking point. It’s almost like people are looking for something to cling to, to provide some hope that maybe we aren’t going to just steamroller the league again.

 

Roy Keane hates everything and everybody. If you get any kind of praise from him you’re doing well, but as I say he was gushing about the Reds all night. At one point he made a snarky remark about “don’t be getting too giddy about Everton”. Carragher asked him “do you ever get giddy about anything?” and Keane replied “I’m giddy about this Liverpool team. They’re brilliant.”

 

He’s right. We are.

 

Star man is…. shit I don’t know. Mané was incredible, Salah brilliant, Fabinho dominant, Gini supercharged, Trent imperious, Van Dijk masterful… could be any of them really. But fuck it, I’m going Joe Gomez because he probably needed a performance like this. He’s been up and down since footy came back but he was class in this game.

 

Not saying he was the best player on the pitch (that was probably Sadio) but I’m giving him the star man because his performance will probably be overlooked by a lot of people. Not by me, well in Joey lad. 

 

 

Team: Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dijk, Robertson; Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Keita (Milner); Salah, Firmino (Minamino), Mané (Jota):

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Salah was fucking brilliant all night. His work rate was incredible and he tormented that left side of the Arsenal defence. He’s in great form right now, as is Sadio. Having Jota around is only going to help with that as not only does it allow us to occasionally rest them when needed, but if Jota performs well then it provides genuine competition.

The amount of balls pinged 50 or 60 yards from VVD onto Salah was a joy to behold.

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43 minutes ago, tlw content said:

We’re so much better than everybody else right now. We’ve never been this much better than all of the competition, not even in our 70s and 80s heyday. I know not everyone is comfortable saying this in case it blows up in our faces, but it’s true, we’re miles better than everyone. Over the last two seasons we’ve averaged 98 points. 

Is this the moment it all unravels, like the we have no shit players anymore moment? 

 

I think not but please be careful. 

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I think we're the team to beat this season although it is far too early to write city off. Spurs seem to be going backwards whether that's down to mourinho or levy and the stadium costs. united have the gimp in charge and it's a bit incredulous thinking he could win the league. Surely he'd need us, city, plus possibly Leicester turning to shit?

 

Said it before about Fwank and chelsea, you can buy all the best toys but if you dont know how to get the best out of them, yer mates will always trump you. West Brom really should have punished them but as soon as their keeper stood and watched the first go past him, you got the feeling they weren't getting all 3 points.

 

I honestly expect everton to fall away quite quickly after their first 12 PL games if you look at their fixtures. Winning breeds confidence while making oppos wary of you but they just have far too many easy opening fixtures making them look front runners at the moment.

 

It's great thinking we could do a clean sweep of all the trophies, certainly domestic ones but, I just think unless you get piss easy draws in virtually every round of both cups like city did the other year, you're going to fall between the stools.

 

I still think our 78 side is the best ever but this team's points record means even I have to re evaluate this. That said, back in 78, the boys had to play on some cabbage patch pitches unlike the ones today. Fuck me, Villa Park used to just have 4 triangles of grass by the corner flags while the Baseball Ground was a fucking quagmire even in a drought!

 

 

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Arsenal is way better now than they were but we totally outplayed them, we were brillant.

 

They still had a few chance though, it’s part of our style I reckon when you press so hard.

 

Dave, I sere your mum has no place for her always relevant and clever comments. Are you scared of her rightful popularity to ban her so fast ? 

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1 hour ago, Arnaud said:

Arsenal is way better now than they were but we totally outplayed them, we were brillant.

 

They still had a few chance though, it’s part of our style I reckon when you press so hard.

 

Dave, I sere your mum has no place for her always relevant and clever comments. Are you scared of her rightful popularity to ban her so fast ? 

 

Haven't spoken to her about it yet. Usually I watch the Sky games at their house but I watched it in mine last night. Spoke to my dad straight after the game but haven't heard what my mum thinks yet. She's more interesting when she's ranting about random players from other teams to be honest.

 

Her analysis of our games is usually how much she loves Fabinho and then somehow shoehorning a Lallana rant in there.

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Just now, dave u said:

 

Haven't spoken to her about it yet. Usually I watch the Sky games at their house but I watched it in mine last night. Spoke to my dad straight after the game but haven't heard what my mum thinks yet. She's more interesting when she's ranting about random players from other teams to be honest.

 

Her analysis of our games is usually how much she loves Fabinho and then somehow shoehorning a Lallana rant in there.

Wise woman. 

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I think maybe part of the reason for the defensive mistakes against arsenal is that the defenders have almost nothing to do for long periods of the game, it must be hard for them to concentrate fully in a game like that. Also how many more Liverpool wins will it take for the void the season twats to start up again

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I think you’re getting mixed up with the offside rule changes unless you’re thinking about Europe and the other European leagues.  It’s only this year in England that they’ve changed to this situation where the linesmen don’t flag.  Last year the linesmen were flagging and it was down to the ref to let play go if he thought there was a goal scoring chance imminent.  Loads of people were moaning about it and giving it the “we think we’re better than everywhere else” comments even though that method is clearly better.

 

I think the thing about getting annoyed by flags not going up last year (and for a while before then) is that stupid situation where completely randomly linesman just decide they aren’t going to flag until the offside player touches the ball or gets close to it even though it’s obvious they’re going for it and it’s causing players to sprint and tackle each other.  The commentators then start wanking each off thinking they’re clever explaining it to everyone as if we’ve never heard it before.  Usually 5 or 10 mins later the linesman flags for an offside normally and nobody says a word about why he’s now flagging quickly.

 

When I watched in Europe last I had the same questions Klopp was raising last night and that you mentioned here.  As in what if it goes for a corner etc. But what they’re actually doing is flagging later on if they think it’s offside.  So they’re decision on whether it’s offside or not hasn’t actually changed.  It’s probably confusing when the player is offside and they don’t subsequently flag but what is happening is that they wouldn’t have flagged anyway.

 

That side of things I don’t have a problem with.  The reason I prefer last years method is because of the amount of time that is being wasted in games and injury risked this year.  What we are seeing is the linesman not flagging even though he’s going to as soon as the attack dies but in so many circumstances the attack is nowhere near the goal and the game ends up running on for ages.  The referee is no longer making that judgement.

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I don’t like to get too giddy as Mr Keane would say but I reckon if anyone finishes above us they win the league.

I was a bit worried we needed the crowd for that game but the lads were just relentless. Brilliant stuff. So many away wins in the league now but we march  on at Anfield.

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3 hours ago, suzy said:

I don’t like to get too giddy as Mr Keane would say but I reckon if anyone finishes above us they win the league.

I was a bit worried we needed the crowd for that game but the lads were just relentless. Brilliant stuff. So many away wins in the league now but we march  on at Anfield.

Wasn't too bothered about points totals etc last season,but still a bit miffed by the stupid Burnley draw that ruined a probably never to be repeated winning of all home games in a season.

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Agree with everything, as usual. I hate these offsides being allowed to go on too, it'll lead to an unnecessary injury at some point as well as the scenario you describe. It's just stupidity. 

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The last two league games against Arsenal have given them three goals - all virtually own goals.

Nice that Pawson played the advantage in the lead up to the goal - but he should have gone back and given fucking Luiz a yellow

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On 29/09/2020 at 21:18, The Guest said:

I think you’re getting mixed up with the offside rule changes unless you’re thinking about Europe and the other European leagues.  It’s only this year in England that they’ve changed to this situation where the linesmen don’t flag.  Last year the linesmen were flagging and it was down to the ref to let play go if he thought there was a goal scoring chance imminent.  Loads of people were moaning about it and giving it the “we think we’re better than everywhere else” comments even though that method is clearly better.

 

I think the thing about getting annoyed by flags not going up last year (and for a while before then) is that stupid situation where completely randomly linesman just decide they aren’t going to flag until the offside player touches the ball or gets close to it even though it’s obvious they’re going for it and it’s causing players to sprint and tackle each other.  The commentators then start wanking each off thinking they’re clever explaining it to everyone as if we’ve never heard it before.  Usually 5 or 10 mins later the linesman flags for an offside normally and nobody says a word about why he’s now flagging quickly.

 

When I watched in Europe last I had the same questions Klopp was raising last night and that you mentioned here.  As in what if it goes for a corner etc. But what they’re actually doing is flagging later on if they think it’s offside.  So they’re decision on whether it’s offside or not hasn’t actually changed.  It’s probably confusing when the player is offside and they don’t subsequently flag but what is happening is that they wouldn’t have flagged anyway.

 

That side of things I don’t have a problem with.  The reason I prefer last years method is because of the amount of time that is being wasted in games and injury risked this year.  What we are seeing is the linesman not flagging even though he’s going to as soon as the attack dies but in so many circumstances the attack is nowhere near the goal and the game ends up running on for ages.  The referee is no longer making that judgement.

 

No I know that it's been enhanced this year by telling linos not to flag, but it did happen last year too. The difference then wasn't that they had been told not to flag, it was that sometimes they just didn't do it because they knew VAR would correct them if they'd missed one, so they were just more reluctant to put the flag up thinking that the VAR would bail them out.

 

I specifically remember an instance early last season (I think it was Arsenal again, funnily enough) when a player went through and was well offside, but the lino didn't flag. They ended up getting a corner from it and I was fuming about it in the match report because it was just an indirect result of VAR.

 

It's human nature to think "if he's off then VAR will sort it but if he's on then I'm in trouble if I flag. So you get linos not making decisions.

 

Now they're actively encouraged not to make them until after the play is over, which in theory is good but it brings with it other problems.

 

I don't really see any way of fixing this though if the ultimate goal is to ensure that offside calls are 100% correct. The trade off for having those calls spot on is that sometimes teams are going to win corners that they shouldn't and we may well end up with players getting injured at some point having continued to play after an offside.

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24 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

No I know that it's been enhanced this year by telling linos not to flag, but it did happen last year too. The difference then wasn't that they had been told not to flag, it was that sometimes they just didn't do it because they knew VAR would correct them if they'd missed one, so they were just more reluctant to put the flag up thinking that the VAR would bail them out.

 

I specifically remember an instance early last season (I think it was Arsenal again, funnily enough) when a player went through and was well offside, but the lino didn't flag. They ended up getting a corner from it and I was fuming about it in the match report because it was just an indirect result of VAR.

 

It's human nature to think "if he's off then VAR will sort it but if he's on then I'm in trouble if I flag. So you get linos not making decisions.

 

Now they're actively encouraged not to make them until after the play is over, which in theory is good but it brings with it other problems.

 

I don't really see any way of fixing this though if the ultimate goal is to ensure that offside calls are 100% correct. The trade off for having those calls spot on is that sometimes teams are going to win corners that they shouldn't and we may well end up with players getting injured at some point having continued to play after an offside.

Yeah I get what you mean now.  I think it harms us in a way because we play so high that offside decisions become a lot more important so they will let VAR deal with it as you say.  It probably benefits us more though in that we can rely on technology getting it right so we will never directly concede due to an offside.

 

I don’t like this talk of what Wenger is proposing though.  He’s in some position at FIFA saying we should go to clear daylight for an offside.  I can’t believe somebody as intelligent as he clearly is doesn’t see how bad a change that would be.  You would still get tight calls that people will moan about but on top of that it make the game more negative and boring.  Teams will not want to play a high line because it will be far too risky and it will benefit teams just sitting back and defending.

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I don't see why they can't go back to the offside "decision" if the ball goes out for a corner or throw in. Maybe the lino could switch the flag to his left hand or hold it across his chest  until the ball goes out of play or the defence get possession. 

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53 minutes ago, aws said:

I don't see why they can't go back to the offside "decision" if the ball goes out for a corner or throw in. Maybe the lino could switch the flag to his left hand or hold it across his chest  until the ball goes out of play or the defence get possession. 

They do go back to his decision when he flags after the attack breaks down or the ball goes out of play.  He just doesn’t flag it until that point.

 

The thing Dave is saying is that VAR is encouraging them to leave it to VAR instead of making a decision.  If we then went to a situation where they reviewed every offside it would make the linesman pointless and it would slow the game down quite a lot.

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50 minutes ago, The Guest said:

They do go back to his decision when he flags after the attack breaks down or the ball goes out of play.  He just doesn’t flag it until that point.

 

The thing Dave is saying is that VAR is encouraging them to leave it to VAR instead of making a decision.  If we then went to a situation where they reviewed every offside it would make the linesman pointless and it would slow the game down quite a lot.

They don't always go back to the decision and that's the problem. Attackers have often won corners from offside attacks. If the ball ends up in the net, go to VAR. If it doesn't go back to what the lino originally thought. 

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1 hour ago, aws said:

They don't always go back to the decision and that's the problem. Attackers have often won corners from offside attacks. If the ball ends up in the net, go to VAR. If it doesn't go back to what the lino originally thought. 

That’s the original point I was making.  The times they don’t go back are because the linesman didn’t think it was offside (even if it was).  The only way they could go back is by judging every offside decision by VAR which isn’t going to happen.  If the original decision by the linesman was offside but it was tight and he’s unsure he keeps his flag down and then the linesman flags at the end of the attack whether the ball ends up in the net or not.

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