PODCAST: Liverpool 3 Brighton 3 - Match Reaction

Good pod again. Agree with Paul, the whole team is off. There's no or little press. Virgil's authority seems to have evaporated.

I can understand Dave's point about Brighton but, they have a new manager. It's a bit disconcerting that even the new guy had them seemingly playing better against us than Potter!

There was another bad smash at Switch ealier in the week and I think the bizzies have altered the traffic light phasing causing the mayhem.

Now Paul is worried I’m very worried!

You all kept saying how has this happened so quickly. This is the result of four years of under investment. You're all intelligent lads, surprised you keep ignoring that. 

I know a lot has been said about the press not working this season, but whats even more shocking this season is the quality, or lack of our passing. I’ve never seen us give the ball away so much through unforced errors , just sloppy sloppy passing and hopeful punts down the line. 
At our best, we would have slowed the game, through good passing,  down at 3-2 and won easily, we simply cant control games until the passing is back on song. 

I'm worried that we aren't doing anything at all to fix the issues just hoping something will click. We are easy to cut through, to keep witnessing it and doing nothing except hope the players just improve isn't good enough. Like the United game we knew exactly how they could hurt us yet still we obliged them. 

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

You all kept saying how has this happened so quickly. This is the result of four years of under investment. You're all intelligent lads, surprised you keep ignoring that. 

We almost won every fucking trophy there was to win only a few months ago. 

Surprised you're ignoring that. Actually, no I'm not.

2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I'm worried that we aren't doing anything at all to fix the issues just hoping something will click. We are easy to cut through, to keep witnessing it and doing nothing except hope the players just improve isn't good enough. Like the United game we knew exactly how they could hurt us yet still we obliged them. 

Yeah, "Make Plan A better" isn't going to cut it.

@JOHNG

Has to now concede that Trent is a suspect RB.

Claiming that Trent can’t defend is a “myth” has completely undercut your credibility John.

Its undercut Dave, but he’s put his cards on the table - he is pro Trent, and fair play to him.

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

We almost won every fucking trophy there was to win only a few months ago. 

 

Surprised you're ignoring that. Actually, no I'm not.

We were closer to finishing the season with no trophies than winning everything. We got out played by Chelsea twice in the domestic finals and failed to score.

We never had a chance of the league. We had no choice but to start an injured Thiago in the champions league. 

And just look at the cost of that effort now. We overplayed the same 13-14 players because Klopp had no choice. 

1 hour ago, Kevin D said:

@JOHNG

 

Has to now concede that Trent is a suspect RB.

 

Claiming that Trent can’t defend is a “myth” has completely undercut your credibility John.

 

Its undercut Dave, but he’s put his cards on the table - he is pro Trent, and fair play to him.

Trent is being done no favours with this tactical set up I don't see how any fullback in the country can protect his position when he's also being asked to play on the edge of the oppositions area. I think his head has gone with it too and it's making him nervy and second guess himself. I love Klopp but a lot of this is on him and his coaches if somethings not working address it.

6 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Trent is being done no favours with this tactical set up I don't see how any fullback in the country can protect his position when he's also being asked to play on the edge of the oppositions area. I think his head has gone with it too and it's making him nervy and second guess himself. I love Klopp but a lot of this is on him and his coaches if somethings not working address it.

Agree with this. The timing of Ljinder's book has been one of those things that has come back to bite us on the arse. Tell you what, Pep, get coaching on the training ground with Jurgen and sort this stuff out, pronto.

I dont think Trent is playing much different to what he has done in previous season. The only difference is every goal we conceed now is 'down to Trent' despite other players having plenty of chances to clear the ball.

Yes, he's been at fault for Mitrovich's and Junior's goals. He wasnt the reason Trossard got his 3rd yesterday never mind his 2nd or 1st.

As you say, he cant be on the edge of the oppos box then expected to be alongside Matip and van Dijk for every oppo attack. If we're aware Trent's side is being targetted, what are we doing to protect it? Not a lot, Id currently say.

5 hours ago, Kevin D said:

@JOHNG

 

Has to now concede that Trent is a suspect RB.

 

Claiming that Trent can’t defend is a “myth” has completely undercut your credibility John.

 

Its undercut Dave, but he’s put his cards on the table - he is pro Trent, and fair play to him.

It is a myth. He can defend. Just because he isn't doing it very well right now, that doesn't wipe out the years of excellence we've had from him previously.

John Henry is clearly paying these lads off.

5 hours ago, Kevin D said:

@JOHNG

 

Has to now concede that Trent is a suspect RB.

 

Claiming that Trent can’t defend is a “myth” has completely undercut your credibility John.

 

Its undercut Dave, but he’s put his cards on the table - he is pro Trent, and fair play to him.

Genuinely got no idea what you’re on about. Are you doing “funny” or are you just “funny”? And why the fuck have you got that Newcastle badge as your avatar? 

Great pod.

I'm worried that Arsenal are going to batter us. 

Good discussion. My view is we’re suffering from the last few years of relentless pressure of having to win every game home and away just to keep up with a financially doped-up City. Time was when you could keep pace at the top by keeping close to a formula of winning your home games and drawing away. That formula should still be good enough to get you in the CL and for the moment that should be the target and then review the situation after the World Cup. For the time being we need to get back to the position where every draw isn’t a crushing disaster which affects your confidence or screws up the pressure for the next game. 

It seems to me that we’ve over-tweaked what was working well for us to try and squeeze out a little more  juice and the best example is the rather undisciplined/ all over the place role  which Trent seems to be playing. It’s fucking up both his game and Mo’s game, leaving us more wide open but without adding to our creativity. 
Time to go back to basics and keep it tight, keep it simple. Focus on not conceding. If we can do that, we might surprise ourselves by winning a few 1-0s here and there. 

36 minutes ago, Paul said:

Genuinely got no idea what you’re on about. Are you doing “funny” or are you just “funny”? And why the fuck have you got that Newcastle badge as your avatar? 

Ouch.

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

It is a myth. He can defend. Just because he isn't doing it very well right now, that doesn't wipe out the years of excellence we've had from him previously.

Trent is an outstanding player, he has absolutely revolutionised the RB role.

That being said, he does have significant flaws, namely positioning and awful anticipation.

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

John Henry is clearly paying these lads off.

@Paul just eviscerated me.

He’s usually nice and diplomatic, but that was absolutely brutal.

I’m still feeling it.

It depends how you define defend.  He can physically tackle people, it’s not like he’s a shithouse (unless the ball is in the air and then he more often than not is) and when he’s completely focused he can make good defensive decisions and he tends to cover around the back of the centre backs well on occasion.

He is a terrible “defender” though.  The problem is that his attitude to it absolutely stinks and it has done for years now.  It’s all on his terms and when he fancies it and this can be for whole games or parts of one.  Everyone seemed to convince themselves of the “Klopp wants him up the pitch so he’s going to get caught out” excuse to the point I think he started believing it.  Nobody ever seemed to want to address the fact that loads of the problems and goals came when he wasn’t even up the pitch or the fact that he rarely gets to the opposition byline even once a game anyway.  It started with the just outright stopping as soon as player or the ball went passed him and this was years ago.  He’s clearly been told because this doesn’t happen as blatantly now.  He covers it with half arsed jogging instead with still no intention of getting in position.

I think Carragher spoke a while ago about this and how he never sprints back into position.  I think a lot of people would say that he hasn’t got defensive instincts and that’s why he doesn’t do it.  I personally think it’s worse than that now.  I think he hides from it and it’s a major flaw in his game that basically cannot be improved because if it was going to be it would have happened by now.  My biggest fear is that after another year or two of playing like this he is going to get moved into midfield and he’s going to be an even bigger mess there because he would have even more defensive responsibility playing there than he does now.

It was pretty much universally accepted that if we wanted to progress the team and compete with city then we needed more from the midfield than the workhorse type we had that covered the full backs.  Robbo didn’t need to adapt because he worked up and down anyway and didn’t really need covering.  Trent just hasn’t adapted to this shift and it’s glaring in every single game.  We got away with it last year because everyone else was playing well.  He still cost us in the big moments though.

I see everyone coming up with all sorts of reasons for this years slump and the goals conceded etc.  I’m convinced that if we just take him out the team we would turn this around and these other players would stop being left exposed so many times.  Brighton got in down our right side so many times the goal was almost certain to come.  He’s not offering anything going forward anyway and is harming us by not even providing width.  The decision to take Tsimikas off and leave him on cost us the game.  It feels like even if we win games now it’s going to be through us getting lucky.

I find the England stuff baffling.  Reece James is a better footballer than him.  People will wake up to it at some point.  On his current form he shouldn’t be anywhere near the squad.  As much of an out of his depth shithouse, picking the wrong players in a daft formation crab Southgate is, he’s called this one absolutely correctly.

Just now, Kevin D said:

@Paul just eviscerated me.

 

He’s usually nice and diplomatic, but that was absolutely brutal.

 

I’m still feeling it.

The man is paid to do a job and, in my opinion, he does it professionally. 

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

It is a myth. He can defend. Just because he isn't doing it very well right now, that doesn't wipe out the years of excellence we've had from him previously.

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. He's never been a good defender even at the top of his form. Positionally he's poor and he just doesn't anticipate danger at all.  In previous seasons he's had a lot of help and cover to not expose his defensive weaknesses and he's been able to concentrate on his incredible attacking attributes which has made him one of the best full backs in word football.  He's no longer getting any protection from the likes of Fabinho & Henderson (honourable mention for Gini too) and he's become isolated and quite frankly an accident waiting to happen every game. 

Too much is now being asked of him in an attacking sense.  I don't know why we've made a tactical switch of having Trent more central & Salah more outwide but it isn;t working and its affecting both players.  His confidence is shot, I don't think he's helping himself either though.  Some of his 'tracking back' has been a disgrace.

He shouldn't be singled out though as the majority of our players are playing miles below the level we know they can play at. 80% of the team are completely unrecognisable from the players we've watched these past 3-4 seasons. There's so much wrong individually & collectively I don't know where to start with how we can turn it around. 

I honestly dont think we have a prayer of beating Arsenal & City in our next league games

10 hours ago, Kevin D said:

@Paul just eviscerated me.

 

He’s usually nice and diplomatic, but that was absolutely brutal.

 

I’m still feeling it.

Yes. Probably was stronger than intended, sorry. However, I still don’t get your point and I still want to know why you’ve got that fucking Newcastle badge as your avatar. I mean, fuck the Saudis, right?

Not sure what I think about the criticisms of the crowd. As a former season ticket holder I generally lean to the view that you've paid your money, you're allowed to support the team as you want. And it's not cheap - you've paid £40/50/60 to be there, you've taken a lot of time out of of your day. Do the millionaires on the pitch and on the touchline need a song sung to make them play better? And if the team are serving up dogshit why should the crowd bail them out? 

Anyway, football treats people like consumers, so they shouldn't be surprised when it's consumers who turn up, and not rabid supporters. 

Just my opinion, anyway. 

Good podcast again lads. Enjoyed it. 

Title challenge is gone no doubt about it. All about aiming for top 4 now and see how far we can get in the CL.. As much as I hate to say it I'd fuck the domestic cups off as well. 

I hope City win every match (apart from ours obviously) 6-0 and further enforce what a total joke this league is when we're not around to challenge them.