PODCAST: Leeds 1 Liverpool 6 - Match Reaction & Bellingham talk

By the way Klopp did the inverted full back thing first at Dortmund, and pep copied him at barca, so its the other way round.

I know it's still fucking ridiculous but didn't Boehly go into the Chelsea dressing room after the game rather than before? They really are a plastic, shit club. 

I read a stat from after their Brighton game that stated that it was the most shots (26) faced by a Chelsea team in a game since 2004. Someone tweeted "most since their formation". I laughed anyway. 

1 hour ago, Razoray said:

I know it's still fucking ridiculous but didn't Boehly go into the Chelsea dressing room after the game rather than before? They really are a plastic, shit club. 

 

I read a stat from after their Brighton game that stated that it was the most shots (26) faced by a Chelsea team in a game since 2004. Someone tweeted "most since their formation". I laughed anyway. 

He did both. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/apr/17/todd-boehly-tells-chelsea-season-embarrassing-dressing-room-brighton-real-madrid

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

He did both. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/apr/17/todd-boehly-tells-chelsea-season-embarrassing-dressing-room-brighton-real-madrid

Jesus Christ

2 hours ago, Mathewbet1 said:

By the way Klopp did the inverted full back thing first at Dortmund, and pep copied him at barca, so its the other way round.

Who was the full back he did that with at Dortmund?

And didn't Bayern do it with Lahm before moving him there full time? Was Guardiola the manager then or someone else?

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

Only because he was always going to City. The others never had a chance to get him.

 

The serious clubs don’t turn down these opportunities.

Serious clubs or serious managers? Because this is Klopp’s choice. 

3 hours ago, Chris said:

 

I'm kinda sick of talking about it to be honest, which I why I reigned Dave in when he was going down the Haaland dead agent rabbit hole. We all know it, at this point it feels like we're labouring the point. 

This is kind of what sports washing does though. The strategy of spending massively inflated amounts on fees and wages was designed as much to destabilise the established clubs as it was to accelerate the development of the oil clubs. PSG deliberately overpaid for Neymar knowing there’d be a likely knock on across Europe that would ultimately harm the establishment. And they were right. Look at Barca. 
 

The sense of ennui about it all is insidious in my view. In a discussion about a massive nine-figure potential transfer, you lads talked about “Mingebags”, “serious clubs” and two signings that cost £122m in a six month period, as well as dismissing the fact that the club lost well over a hundred million pounds due to Covid. As a fanbase we’re not stopping to think that this critical appraisal of our spending is seen entirely through the prism of cheating. We can’t simply just do every deal no matter what. 
 

I know that’s not what you were all saying, but in any other field of business, the degree of financial prudence in the context of huge recent success evident at Liverpool would be the model to admire, not criticise - especially with near bankruptcy still just about  in the rear view mirror. Yet we collectively allow a narrative of failure/ineptitude/complacency to abound. 
 

Again, I think the Bellingham decision - if born out - is a mistake. However, it’s Klopp’s mistake rather than the club’s. 

21 minutes ago, Paul said:

This is kind of what sports washing does though. The strategy of spending massively inflated amounts on fees and wages was designed as much to destabilise the established clubs as it was to accelerate the development of the oil clubs. PSG deliberately overpaid for Neymar knowing there’d be a likely knock on across Europe that would ultimately harm the establishment. And they were right. Look at Barca. 
 

The sense of ennui about it all is insidious in my view. In a discussion about a massive nine-figure potential transfer, you lads talked about “Mingebags”, “serious clubs” and two signings that cost £122m in a six month period, as well as dismissing the fact that the club lost well over a hundred million pounds due to Covid. As a fanbase we’re not stopping to think that this critical appraisal of our spending is seen entirely through the prism of cheating. We can’t simply just do every deal no matter what. 
 

I know that’s not what you were all saying, but in any other field of business, the degree of financial prudence in the context of huge recent success evident at Liverpool would be the model to admire, not criticise - especially with near bankruptcy still just about  in the rear view mirror. Yet we collectively allow a narrative of failure/ineptitude/complacency to abound. 
 

Again, I think the Bellingham decision - if born out - is a mistake. However, it’s Klopp’s mistake rather than the club’s. 

Barnay Ronay had a piece in the Guardian yesterday about Arsenal bottling it. Basically City have rigged the sport to the point that not winning every game after Christmas is considered bottling it. Ronay, in fairness to him includes the caveat about them being cheats in just about every article he does. It's needed more often by more journalists. 

37 minutes ago, Paul said:

Serious clubs or serious managers? Because this is Klopp’s choice. 

Klopp pretty much is the club.

51 minutes ago, Paul said:

Serious clubs or serious managers? Because this is Klopp’s choice. 

If it is Klopp's decision (and it is an if) don't you think it's a bit Hobson's choice? Or do you still think £250m will be made available this summer and yet he'll still choose not to sign Bellingham?

1 hour ago, Paul said:

This is kind of what sports washing does though. The strategy of spending massively inflated amounts on fees and wages was designed as much to destabilise the established clubs as it was to accelerate the development of the oil clubs. PSG deliberately overpaid for Neymar knowing there’d be a likely knock on across Europe that would ultimately harm the establishment. And they were right. Look at Barca. 
 

The sense of ennui about it all is insidious in my view. In a discussion about a massive nine-figure potential transfer, you lads talked about “Mingebags”, “serious clubs” and two signings that cost £122m in a six month period, as well as dismissing the fact that the club lost well over a hundred million pounds due to Covid. As a fanbase we’re not stopping to think that this critical appraisal of our spending is seen entirely through the prism of cheating. We can’t simply just do every deal no matter what. 
 

I know that’s not what you were all saying, but in any other field of business, the degree of financial prudence in the context of huge recent success evident at Liverpool would be the model to admire, not criticise - especially with near bankruptcy still just about  in the rear view mirror. Yet we collectively allow a narrative of failure/ineptitude/complacency to abound. 
 

Again, I think the Bellingham decision - if born out - is a mistake. However, it’s Klopp’s mistake rather than the club’s. 

You're not wrong, and believe me I completely agree with you, but who wants to listen to a Liverpool podcast when all we go on about is Man City cheating? 

The narrative about failure and ineptitude comes in when we're talking about how it was clearly the plan to get him and we let things slide to the point that it now can't be the plan because the ship is taking on too much water and one bloke can't patch all the leaks. Whether that's on Klopp or whether that's on FSG (and in my view it's on FSG) that's down to ineptitude. 

EDITORIAL MEETING! EDITORIAL MEETING! 

Great pod.

Just on Brownie mentioning Klopps interview with Carragher and with him appearing stumped to explain, probably just me but does anybody else think he was pissed off with him maybe because of him laughing like a wanking chimp when Keane was slagging off Robbo last week? Probably just me in fairness but we know Klopp can be very protective. He just seemed a bit off with him but again it’s probably just me. 

Bloody good analysis fellas! 
Totally get the fuming attitude watching the second half, thinking are you kidding me? What the bloody hell do you call this after the shite being dished up all season.

The Trent thing is a fine balance, agreed. That’s why I originally thought of it maybe working in a 4-4-2, cos I’m not sure he’d cope in a midfield 3, but clearly with 4-4-2, we’d be asking maybe a player like Gakpo to sit deeper in midfield but get up to assist the 2 strikers. It makes good sense to use Trent in a very mutable role.

No European football no Bellingham.

The simplest explanation is often the most accurate.

Joyce first raised the alarm following the Bournemouth defeat mid March, this was followed up with full withdrawal after we went 12 points behind 3rd and 4th following the Arsenal game. 

My theory why now, why the timing of the announcements. The club are obsessed with controlling the flow of information. I mean they brief the journalists for a reason. Remember Chang, dogshit letterbox. They have framed it on their terms and supporters are inadvertently parroting back their talking points. Instead of discussing we can't buy Bellingham because we don't have the funds and why don't they take a risk like Arsenal did. People are discussing how they have framed the discussion.

I'm willing to bet if we don't make Europe we don't end up with either of the Brighton lads or son of Lampard - I doubt we will be shopping in that price range. 

I think our interest in Bellingham is 100% genuine and he wants to come here. But there are no friends in football when it comes to money, so Dortmund or Bellingham won't be doing us a solid and lowering transfers and wages/commission. 

6 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Who was the full back he did that with at Dortmund?

 

And didn't Bayern do it with Lahm before moving him there full time? Was Guardiola the manager then or someone else?

Jakub Błaszczykowski?

Or maybe Piszczek? 

4 hours ago, Paul said:

This is kind of what sports washing does though. The strategy of spending massively inflated amounts on fees and wages was designed as much to destabilise the established clubs as it was to accelerate the development of the oil clubs. PSG deliberately overpaid for Neymar knowing there’d be a likely knock on across Europe that would ultimately harm the establishment. And they were right. Look at Barca. 
 

The sense of ennui about it all is insidious in my view. In a discussion about a massive nine-figure potential transfer, you lads talked about “Mingebags”, “serious clubs” and two signings that cost £122m in a six month period, as well as dismissing the fact that the club lost well over a hundred million pounds due to Covid. As a fanbase we’re not stopping to think that this critical appraisal of our spending is seen entirely through the prism of cheating. We can’t simply just do every deal no matter what. 
 

I know that’s not what you were all saying, but in any other field of business, the degree of financial prudence in the context of huge recent success evident at Liverpool would be the model to admire, not criticise - especially with near bankruptcy still just about  in the rear view mirror. Yet we collectively allow a narrative of failure/ineptitude/complacency to abound. 
 

Again, I think the Bellingham decision - if born out - is a mistake. However, it’s Klopp’s mistake rather than the club’s. 

Someone posted on here today that the £75m we paid for Van Dijk in 2018 is equivalent to £130m today. I realise there is a cost of living crisis in the UK but there is no way that the cost of anything should rise by 58% in 5 and a half years. 

City and especially PSG have priced very wealthy, well-run clubs out of an already small market by lavishing billions of unearned money into clubs. It's disgusting, greedy and ruinous. There was news today of City increasing the capacity of a stadium they do not own, and cannot fill, so that they can inflate the already laughable income figures.

All attempts to draw attention to the reality on social media is shut down by City fans and bots highlighting the local jobs it will bring to the area. Do they understand that this is what sports washing is? The brainwashing is grim.

We all look down on City fans for selling their soul but Liverpool (and other clubs') not keeping up with the spending of these clubs isn't the crime some on here, and on social media, especially, seem to think it is. 

7 minutes ago, The Midnight Rambler said:

Or maybe Piszczek? 

Think it was him , not for all games, but i think he played in that role quite a bit.

Talking about philip lahm, he was great in CM for a few years, brilliant striker of a ball a bit like a left footed trent! 

11 hours ago, Paul said:

This is kind of what sports washing does though. The strategy of spending massively inflated amounts on fees and wages was designed as much to destabilise the established clubs as it was to accelerate the development of the oil clubs. PSG deliberately overpaid for Neymar knowing there’d be a likely knock on across Europe that would ultimately harm the establishment. And they were right. Look at Barca. 
 

The sense of ennui about it all is insidious in my view. In a discussion about a massive nine-figure potential transfer, you lads talked about “Mingebags”, “serious clubs” and two signings that cost £122m in a six month period, as well as dismissing the fact that the club lost well over a hundred million pounds due to Covid. As a fanbase we’re not stopping to think that this critical appraisal of our spending is seen entirely through the prism of cheating. We can’t simply just do every deal no matter what. 
 

I know that’s not what you were all saying, but in any other field of business, the degree of financial prudence in the context of huge recent success evident at Liverpool would be the model to admire, not criticise - especially with near bankruptcy still just about  in the rear view mirror. Yet we collectively allow a narrative of failure/ineptitude/complacency to abound. 
 

Again, I think the Bellingham decision - if born out - is a mistake. However, it’s Klopp’s mistake rather than the club’s. 

What I always enjoy about Paul’s posts is there’s always at least one word I have to google. 
 

But great post. The acceptance of cheating and then hammering a club for not trying to keep up (even with Barca on the verge of going out of existence because of doing exactly that) while viewing it (I think in most cases unwittingly) through that prism of cheating, as you put it, is something that is killing the game. A reckoning is coming. 

22 hours ago, Paul said:

We should definitely sign Bellingham and worry about everything else later.  I too haven’t totally ruled out that it’s finished (although it doesn’t look great).
 

However, I’m really disappointed there wasn’t more comment on the fact that City and PSG (and Chelsea too, actually - they’ve done as much if not more harm than the others since Abramovich bought them) have totally distorted the transfer market to the point where we can say, “Mingebags” one second and “£122m on two players in six months” on the other. Our expectations are absolutely ridiculous. The oil cunts have won, PL charges notwithstanding. 

I hear you, Paul and you are absolutely right.  We shouldn't have discussions without acknowledging what City have done, but until it's proven, we have will just sound like a man shouting at the wind.  WHEN it is proven, then things will be different.

But I don't think both things can't be true.  Cheating City have behaved appallingly and we have mingebags as custodians.  

The CB situation the other year was evidence enough.  But not building on success is criminal.  I don't think that's down to Klopp - I just can't see him being as hoodwinked as some of our fanbase have been.  He is behaving impeccably and always in the interests of the bigger picture (understandably something which Rafa, for example, just couldn't do).  I think we'll look back at this golden age with bitter regret in years to come.  That's not to devalue the incredible times Jurgen and his teams have given us, but in acknowledgement that the opportunity to sustain the success was removed from his control.

We should be grateful - 100% we should.  But the lost opportunities are down to both City and FSG.

3 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

What I always enjoy about Paul’s posts is there’s always at least one word I have to google. 
 

But great post. The acceptance of cheating and then hammering a club for not trying to keep up (even with Barca on the verge of going out of existence because of doing exactly that) while viewing it (I think in most cases unwittingly) through that prism of cheating, as you put it, is something that is killing the game. A reckoning is coming. 

It was ennui wasn’t it?

38 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

It was ennui wasn’t it?

I thought it was some kind of ancient Japanese fighting style?

19 hours ago, Brownie said:

Only because he was always going to City. The others never had a chance to get him.

 

The serious clubs don’t turn down these opportunities.

Lots of clubs refused to get involved in Haaland, Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo at times, Madrid ruled it out because all their efforts were focused on Mbappe.

It's fantasy to suggest that all big clubs WILL go after every top tier player and there'll be a number of reasons why they don't.

14 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

Great pod.

 

Just on Brownie mentioning Klopps interview with Carragher and with him appearing stumped to explain, probably just me but does anybody else think he was pissed off with him maybe because of him laughing like a wanking chimp when Keane was slagging off Robbo last week? Probably just me in fairness but we know Klopp can be very protective. He just seemed a bit off with him but again it’s probably just me. 

I expected Klopp to be off with him because of the Bellingham piece Carra did in the Telegraph (which I think absolutely nailed it) so I was looking for signs of that, but I didn't see any. I thought Klopp was in good form, it was just a question that's not easy to answer as there's probably a lot of layers to it.

24 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Lots of clubs refused to get involved in Haaland, Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo at times, Madrid ruled it out because all their efforts were focused on Mbappe.

 

It's fantasy to suggest that all big clubs WILL go after every top tier player and there'll be a number of reasons why they don't.

 

 

I haven’t suggested every big club will go after every big player. When a big player actively wants to sign for you though, you don’t turn it down.

I’d also suggest that the money involved with Bellingham won’t be as much as those players you have mentioned

Having said that, if Mbappe was adamant that he wanted to go to Madrid, they wouldn’t say, “nah, you’re alright lad”.