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Is it safe to come out yet? - by John Brennan

Is it safe to come out? Not in the Elton John way, mind. I needed a break from the madness of the transfer window. I’m just delighted that we can get back to the footy now. None of those close season highs in anticipation of a big signing and lows when we didn’t land our man. No, Klopp’s Reds are the very model of sanity, in no way intent on playing with our emotions and blood pressure. Snarky enough?

Anyway, the transfer window? Or “That’s the transfer window!” as Klopp will probably shout to the Main Stand if AOC – or whatever we’re calling him (and frankly, who cares?) – scores. Forgive me for using the conjunction “if”, rather than “when”, but NINE goals in 129 League games over SIX seasons will tend to make you sceptical. Another injury-prone player? For £35m? To add to competition for places with Hendo, Milner (our “new midfielder”, remember), Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Mané, Salah and Coutinho. Just what we needed!

 

Apologies for the cynicism. No, really. When Can is moved back to centre-half and when our “new midfielder” goes back to left-back due to the inadequacies of our defence, Chamberlain may well come in handy. I can’t wait to hear Klopp justifying this signing! There are those who’ll say it wasn’t a last-minute thing as he’s been linked with us all summer. But who hasn’t been linked with us since FSG got here? Nobody, that’s who.

 

It smacks of an “appeasement” signing to keep us in line. You got Salah. You got Chamberlain. We KEPT Coutinho, fending off the might of Barça. Hell, we even got you Robertson from Hull. Now, do please shut up!

 

I wrote the above on the first weekend of the international break, got side-tracked (think Moreno) and have just found the time now to come back to things. I could talk about us whacking Arsenal, but where’s the fun in that? We were good; they made us look great. Which goes to show that even Arsenal are capable of pulling the wool over Reds’ eyes. Klopp managed to keep his mouth shut for most of the ten days, which in itself is a miracle. Thing is, with him, you know that his next outpouring of verbiage is never far away.

 

Citeh? I’ve said in previous pieces that this team would sometimes need to score four to win. I thought that was reasonable enough! But never five. As for six… There were mitigating circumstances, of course. It’s hard enough playing City with 11 on the park. Try doing it with six. Oh sorry, you thought I was going to count our back four?! There’s no shame in losing to City; the shame is the way we packed it in. so the players obviously have to take responsibility. As does the “Boss”.

 

When anyone dares criticize him, of course, Kloppites trot out the same old “arguments”: “Would you prefer to go back to the 6-1 hammerings at Stoke?” (well, at least we scored that day); “I’d prefer this to those drab days under GH and Rafa.” (yeah, winning all those troffies and trophies, pffff, much over-rated). The reason we are in this mess and that we won’t win anything this season is the fault of the Board and Klopp.

 

In seventy-two League games, his teams have conceded 90 goals. NINETY!!! Seventy-two games is surely enough to realize there’s a problem and more importantly to try to fix it! Up front, this guy has a Plan A, B, C, D and E. There is literally a dozen combinations he has at his disposal and he deserves credit for that.

 

But at the back his Plan A is, at the very best, Clyne, Matip, Lovren and Milner. One of those is injured, the other is average at best, the other is a liability – literally, he’ll cost us 10 goals this season – and the other is our “new midfielder”. If Lovren or Matip get injured, Klavan can slot in! This is negligence on Klopp’s and the Club’s part. But woe betide you if you dare criticize him.

 

That’s the thing with the Cheerleader-in-Chief. Nothing sticks. Get beaten 5-0 at City? He has a built-in excuse with Mané’s sending-off. It would be cynical to suggest that was why he made such a big deal out of it, of course. Concede three at Watford? It wasn’t “that bad” and “too much was made of our defending”. Score on the counter-attack? Shout “That’s football!” at the crowd in a self-congratulatory manner. He’s above us all, isn’t he? The defence is just the on-field manifestation of this guy’s arrogance.

 

We can score at will and we’ll probably score over 100 goals this season. It’s the 14th of September and we’ve already got 16! Thing is, we’ve conceded 13. In seven games, we’ve conceded two or more in four of them (1 W, 2 D and 1 L). Even with our front men, we can’t continue taking on water. How can we expect them to score THREE or FOUR week-in, week-out and still not be guaranteed the win?

 

Lack of signings and an obvious inability to find answers to our numerous defensive problems are compromising any chance of success this season. We’ve got to get to January with these defenders: 23 more games in all, 17 in the League. By which stage we will have conceded another 30-35 goals. And put paid to another season.

 

But we have Oxlade-Chamberlain!

 

John Brennan

@JohnAPBrennan


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Latest article from John B, merging it in this thread rather than starting a separate one....

 

 

Rafa liked his facts, did he not? So, without further ado, let’s break down Klopp’s reign into facts. He’s been here for just about two calendar years now. No snarkiness; no snide remarks about, “That’s football!”: it’s nearly Christmas so benevolence is de rigueur.
 
Let’s take his first season in charge. None of these guys were his, except, perhaps, Firmino. He came in eight games into the season and over the course of the rest of the year, for 30 games, we won 13, drew 9 and lost 8. That’s a total of 48 points in 30 games (1.6 points a game), which, projected over a season, gets you to 61 points. I’ve even rounded up, to show I come in good faith!
 
In his second season, with some of his men (Mané, Wijnaldum, Matip), we moved on to 76 points, an average of 2 a game. So, from his first 30 games in charge to his first full season in charge, we gained 0.4 points a game, which equates to a gain of more than 15 points over a season. That’s progress!
 
He’s now been in charge for 74 League games. How about a rolling average divided up in three parts?
 
Games 1-25? 12W 6D 7L = 42 points
Games 26-50? 14W 8D 3L = 50 points
Games 51-74? 12W 7D 5L = 43 points (admittedly with a game less played).
 
So pretty even over his time in charge, with a strong second third and a slight dip over the last 24 games. But we’re pretty consistent. Maybe this is our level?
 
Progress can’t be judged just based on points, of course. Last year, we finished fourth (up from eighth the previous season) and qualified for the European Cup. We scored 78 in 38 (over two a game), up from a poor enough 55 in 30 games in his first season. And progress needn’t just be mathematic; even though we are heart-wrenching (literally!) at times, when we click, we’re fantastic to watch and it can be great fun.
 
The flipside to all of the above and the source of such rancour at the moment is, of course, our “defence”. The quotation marks, with all due respect to some readers, are necessary. In those 74 League games under Klopp, we have conceded 93 goals. That’s an average of 1.25 goals a game, which equates to 47 over the course of a season.
 
The number of goals conceded a season by the last 10 Champions: 33, 36, 32, 37, 43, 29, 37, 32, 24 (we conceded 27 that season and finished second to United), 22. That’s an average of 31.5 goals conceded for the last ten Champions. We are way off that target.
 
Even if we take last year’s figures, his only full season in charge, we conceded 42. Only once has a team conceded more and won the Title. That was United and they scored 86 and finished up with 89 points.
 
Given the amount of goals we let in, we’re going to need to score a hundred to mount a realistic Title challenge. We are effectively asking our front men to go out and score three a game. A big ask.
 
To finish on a positive note, in Klopp’s first 38 games in charge we conceded 50 goals. In his last 37, we’ve conceded 43. Statistically, things are improving. Tighten up at the back and we could win this thing, at last. That’s a fact.
 


John Brennan

@JohnAPBrennan


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In my next piece, I'll be less snarky! Just factual!

All the facts or just the ones you want to use, put in the perspective that paints a partial picture of events? I’ll be interested to see.

 

EDIT: Just posted above. 

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I consider myself pretty fair so right off the bat i'd say that's John's opinion and although i don't agree with it, I respect that.  He's gone to the length of writing it and leaving it open for debate whether that be positive or negative so fair play.  Personally speaking it's getting a little tiresome and the other articles he's written are portraying the exact same message so not sure what else this brings to the debate, e.g. defence is shit, serious reservations about Klopp as manager.

 

I guess if it gets clicks for the site that may be the most positive thing but the sad thing for me is it comes across as a little WUM-ish.

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How did he buy Firmino?

There is a view his appointment was known in the summer Bobby was bought and JK was behind the deal. ROdgers knew he was going and merely kept the seat warm until the time was right. His backroom staff left that summer.

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Latest article from John B, merging it in this thread rather than starting a separate one....

 

 

Rafa liked his facts, did he not? So, without further ado, let’s break down Klopp’s reign into facts. He’s been here for just about two calendar years now. No snarkiness; no snide remarks about, “That’s football!”: it’s nearly Christmas so benevolence is de rigueur.

 

Let’s take his first season in charge. None of these guys were his, except, perhaps, Firmino. He came in eight games into the season and over the course of the rest of the year, for 30 games, we won 13, drew 9 and lost 8. That’s a total of 48 points in 30 games (1.6 points a game), which, projected over a season, gets you to 61 points. I’ve even rounded up, to show I come in good faith!

 

In his second season, with some of his men (Mané, Wijnaldum, Matip), we moved on to 76 points, an average of 2 a game. So, from his first 30 games in charge to his first full season in charge, we gained 0.4 points a game, which equates to a gain of more than 15 points over a season. That’s progress!

 

He’s now been in charge for 74 League games. How about a rolling average divided up in three parts?

 

Games 1-25? 12W 6D 7L = 42 points

Games 26-50? 14W 8D 3L = 50 points

Games 51-74? 12W 7D 5L = 43 points (admittedly with a game less played).

 

So pretty even over his time in charge, with a strong second third and a slight dip over the last 24 games. But we’re pretty consistent. Maybe this is our level?

 

Progress can’t be judged just based on points, of course. Last year, we finished fourth (up from eighth the previous season) and qualified for the European Cup. We scored 78 in 38 (over two a game), up from a poor enough 55 in 30 games in his first season. And progress needn’t just be mathematic; even though we are heart-wrenching (literally!) at times, when we click, we’re fantastic to watch and it can be great fun.

 

The flipside to all of the above and the source of such rancour at the moment is, of course, our “defence”. The quotation marks, with all due respect to some readers, are necessary. In those 74 League games under Klopp, we have conceded 93 goals. That’s an average of 1.25 goals a game, which equates to 47 over the course of a season.

 

The number of goals conceded a season by the last 10 Champions: 33, 36, 32, 37, 43, 29, 37, 32, 24 (we conceded 27 that season and finished second to United), 22. That’s an average of 31.5 goals conceded for the last ten Champions. We are way off that target.

 

Even if we take last year’s figures, his only full season in charge, we conceded 42. Only once has a team conceded more and won the Title. That was United and they scored 86 and finished up with 89 points.

 

Given the amount of goals we let in, we’re going to need to score a hundred to mount a realistic Title challenge. We are effectively asking our front men to go out and score three a game. A big ask.

 

To finish on a positive note, in Klopp’s first 38 games in charge we conceded 50 goals. In his last 37, we’ve conceded 43. Statistically, things are improving. Tighten up at the back and we could win this thing, at last. That’s a fact.

 

 

John Brennan

@JohnAPBrennan

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Code? Is that you?

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There are lots of 'anomalies' that make up a season. We conceded 5 against City but still dropped the same 3 points as we would have if we had conceded 1.

 

It's tricky as we have a very attacking style and I wouldn't want to see that change too much. But we need a particularly strong defence to make up for that, and we don't have the players. We have a couple of youngsters one or two decent players and a couple of turnips with eyes.

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So the crux of the issue justifying (in your mind at least) all the snide is we are not title challengers in a couple of years.

 

Can you say Sky Generation...

Yeah mate, absolutely. Sky Generation. Born and inbred.

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There is a view his appointment was known in the summer Bobby was bought and JK was behind the deal. ROdgers knew he was going and merely kept the seat warm until the time was right. His backroom staff left that summer.

 

People believe some right old shite.

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See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

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See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

 

 

John, custard creams or bourbons?

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See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

The problem isn't your arguments, it's how you originally chose to portray them and your (ahem) premature expectation issue (Secret is safe with me)...

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The problem isn't your arguments, it's how you originally chose to portray them and your (ahem) premature expectation issue (Secret is safe with me)...

Yes, of course it's premature to expect changes to a defence which continues to leak goals like there's no tomorrow over a HUNDRED games into his reign.

 

Put the snarkiness to one side and look at the facts. 

 

If you think he can get it right, then good for you. I think it's going to end in tears.

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Yes, of course it's premature to expect changes to a defence which continues to leak goals like there's no tomorrow over a HUNDRED games into his reign.

 

Put the snarkiness to one side and look at the facts.

 

If you think he can get it right, then good for you. I think it's going to end in tears.

Your tears, when we win the everything.

 

Fact.

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Yes, of course it's premature to expect changes to a defence which continues to leak goals like there's no tomorrow over a HUNDRED games into his reign.

 

Put the snarkiness to one side and look at the facts. 

 

If you think he can get it right, then good for you. I think it's going to end in tears.

 

It's another part of the team performing relative to how much has been invested in it (-$15m). 

 

Given Klopp is very obviously working on a different timeline than your expectations, I think, it's going to continue with in fume (at chez johnb).

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I seem to remember that in the bad old days of Gerard and Rafa when we occasionally won things the main criticism was that the brakes needed to be taken off and the players just needed to be unleashed to twat everyone because we are Liverpool. The other big criticism was that they bought squad fillers and if only they would use their budget to buy a couple of quality players every season the side would inevitably improve over time instead of standing still. Well Jurgen must have been a regular on here because that is what he seems to be trying to do.

 

I don't see the point in comparing our stats to League winners unless the expectation is that the manager must over-achieve and surpass three other sides with massively greater resources who also happen to be managed by top managers. If we expect over-achievement then the only realistic approach is to invest time and money in a manager and see what he can do when he has had a proper opportunity to build his own side.

 

Our defence is shit though.

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