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Liverpool 0 Manchester United 0 (Oct 14 2017)



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Dave Usher at Anfield
 
 
 

 

 
The only way that could have been more predictable was if Lukaku had buried the one and only chance United had. It was last year all over again as we huffed and puffed but couldn’t blow their hurricane re-enforced house down. They came not to play and it worked. 

 

As well as we usually do in big games, this fixture is the outlier because United don’t play like a big team. When they play us, they’re just Burnley with better players. 

 

Readers of the weekly Premier League Round Ups will know that since Mourinho went there I’ve had a policy of not watching United games live and only bothering with the highlights when they don't win. So I only see them for a full game twice a season, when they play us. That’s twice too many. I fucking hate watching them, it brings out a side of me I don’t like. 

 

If there was a camera on me during this game it wouldn’t make for comfortable viewing. I’m usually a fairly relaxed observer during games, largely because of the apathy that has swept over me after so many let downs from this club of ours. This fixture though? Mr Hyde comes out. 

 

Five or six times in the first half alone I was on my feet spewing out obscenities, face all contorted and spittle flying out on the poor unfortunates on the rows in front. If I ever had to see myself like that I’d never go to another game again. I imagine I look like your average Evertonian in a derby game, and that's not something anyone wants to see in themselves. 

 

I can’t help it though. It’s partly United and partly Mourinho. Put them together and it just brings out the absolute worst in me. I was desperate for us to win this game and when it ended I was pissed off and massively disappointed that we didn’t. On reflection though with the dust settled, I’m relieved that at least we didn’t lose. Not that we ever really looked like losing, but since when has that even mattered with us? 

 

United are fucking horrible. I’m not even talking about the whole ‘parking the bus’ thing either, it’s more the tactical fouling and taking turns on fouling the opposing team’s danger man that I hate. It’s a well known Mourinho ploy, at least it’s well known to everyone other than the refs that continually allow them to do it.
 
How many times was Coutinho fouled in this game? It felt like loads. How many were by the same player? Very few. As I say, they took it in turns. Of course Herrera was the one leading the way, the snivelling snide little shitbag. 

 

Then there’s Lukaku, who booted Gomez and then kicked Lovren in the head. Not even a yellow card for either. Fucking joke that Martin Atkinson is. Yeah Lovren rolled around embarrassingly (the one and only time in his life he could ever be compared to Sergio Ramos), but I’m ok with him doing that because sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. 

 

This is the kind of cuntery we’ve had to deal with from these for years. Remember Johnny Evans getting Shelvey sent off? Unfortunately refs are far more sympathetic towards them. Always have been. That’s why Lukaku can stand on Lovren’s head without any kind of recourse. 

 

Our players usually just shrug things like that off and don’t make an issue of it, which just lets the refs off the hook and allows them to not make a decision. So I’ve got no problem with Lovren trying to draw the refs attention to it but he needs some acting lessons as no-one was buying that overly dramatic performance. 

 

As for the tactical approach that everyone is talking about, I don’t like how they play but that’s down to them. If their supporters are happy for a team with the talent they’ve got to play like that then that’s their problem, not ours. Not being able to overcome it is our problem, but hopefully one day we will be able to, because if we win the game 1-0 suddenly it’s not a “Mourinho masterclass” it’s a fucking dreadful, shithouse performance. 
 
Just like last year though, we couldn’t do it. The draw suited them but it didn’t suit us because we’re already well behind them and it’s only October. Under normal circumstances a draw at home to United should be an acceptable result, but because we don’t take care of business against the lesser teams this is two more points dropped. 
 
What makes it all the more fucking irritating is last year we finished above United because they couldn’t beat the shite teams. Not any more. 

 

They kept drawing at home, so what did they do? Went out and bought the biggest flat track bully in the league, a man who does fuck all in the big games but bangs in hat-tricks against the dross. That’s not a criticism of Lukaku or United, it’s a compliment. They knew what they needed and they went and got it, while we fucked around and ignored glaring weaknesses. 
 
Now they're swatting aside the likes of Swansea and West Ham while we continue to throw points away week in week out. By battering everyone outside of the top six they can afford to play not to lose whenever they face the big boys. We have to win as it's the only way we can claw back points. 

 

For all the talk afterwards, I actually didn’t think they were quite as negative as they were last year. I could be wrong, I’d need to see those heat map thingies to be sure, but my initial thought was that last year they played with a back six and three sat in front. This time I don’t think their wingers were anywhere near as deep and they didn’t really do anything out of the ordinary. We see this approach from Burnley, Leicester, West Brom, Palace, West Ham etc and we find it hard against them too. 

 

Obviously United’s approach was conservative, but I think the plan was to try and counter on us when the opportunity presented itself. That never happened though, and I'd say them not having a shot in the second half was as much down to how we played as anything else. We didn’t allow them to do anything, and by ripping on Mourinho for being a shithouse, I think it’s doing our players - and Klopp - a bit of a disservice. 

 

Yeah they were shite, dull, and about as threatening as a new born baby’s fart, but it was because they weren’t allowed to be anything else. If we’d given Lukaku, Martial or Mkhitaryan an inch, they’d have taken a mile. We didn't give them an inch. 

 

And where the fuck has this narrative come from that we weren’t trying to win the game? Of course Mourinho trotted that out, he always does, trolling little shitkicker that he is, but apparently Neville said it too and Jamie Redknapp wrote a column along the same lines. 

 

So let me get this straight, because for once we didn’t do anything reckless and get caught out on the counter attack, that means we were cautious and not trying to win the game? We get ripped for being shite at the back and too adventurous but when we actually keep the back door closed and defend well it’s because we’re not trying to win. Righto. 

 

They had one chance all day. It wasn’t just because they lacked ambition or we were also playing not to lose, it’s because our shape was good and the midfield did a great job preventing counter attacks. The defence didn’t have too much to do but they played mistake free football, which is what we need from them. 

 

Gomez was great. He kept Martial quiet and then shut Rashford down too. He also played a couple of incisive balls into the box. This was probably his best game for us. 

 

It might have been Moreno’s too. I loved how he played, the determination and desire to win every personal duel. He won loads of headers, he made a great block to deny Young and there was one hilarious moment when he just threw himself into Lukaku and bounced off him, but he did enough to put him off. I've said it before, but there’s a lot to like about Moreno when he isn’t making braindead decisions. 

 

The two centre backs were good too, Lovren only had one difficult moment when Lukaku beat him out wide only to thankfully overhit his cross. Aside from that the Croatian was untroubled. He always plays well against Lukaku, it’s a weird one. 

 

As well as we played at the back though, the irony is the one chance United had was more clear cut than anything we created. Thankfully the Mig was on hand to keep it out. It would have been peak Liverpool if that had gone in and we’d lost 1-0. It might have finished me off for good too, as I’m not sure I could have handled a loss like that, not to THEM. 

 

Lukaku had 10 touches in the second half apparently, and two of them were in his own six yard box heading away corners. That says it all. He had more touches than that when he was playing for the Blueshite. 

 

We played well without the ball and we were ok with it. Nobody played badly but apart from the full backs no-one was outstanding either. 

 

“Big game Gini” showed up and he and Salah caused havoc in the first half. Everything seemed to come down that side of the pitch but United adjusted to that at half time and Mo was unable to get as much of the ball. Would it not have been worth having him switch wings to see if he got any joy there? We’re just a bit predictable at the moment. 

 

For all the possession we had and despite the relative ease we were able to move the ball through midfield up to the edge of their box, we didn’t have too many clear chances. Matip’s was the best, and he couldn’t have done any more with the shot that De Gea saved brilliantly with his left foot. 

 

Salah could have done better with the rebound though, especially as he’d taken it away from Coutinho who would probably have scored. Mo had a few other efforts too, which either went straight at De Gea or missed the target completely. Some of his touches and runs were great though. 

 

Big Emre had a good chance second half that he needed to just glance with his boot, but he got too much on it and put it over. He had another effort late on which was pretty tame, but the run that led to it was really good. 

 

We had two chances from corners too late on, but first Lovren and then Matip headed well over. Heads like 50 pences those two, happens nearly every time. 

 

It was just another hugely frustrating day, but it’s difficult to be critical of anybody. I give the players credit for not letting this bad run of results effect them. They’re still going out and dominating games and playing well, even though they aren’t getting any reward for it. It’s vital they don’t let their heads go down now. 

 

We’re struggling for goals but this happens when you don’t have that ruthless, deadly goalscorer. We’ll be right up there in the goals for column by the end of the season, but the problem is we’re too streaky. We’ll have games where it clicks and we score four or five, but too often we won’t make it count. 

 

Obviously Firmino comes under the spotlight for that but he’s not specifically the problem. He’s a good player and when it all falls into place and we play like we did against Arsenal, Firmino looks like the perfect man for the system. It’s on those days when it doesn’t all fall into place that he becomes an issue. He played well against United. He worked hard, he showed some nice touches, but at no point did he ever look like scoring. 

 

We need something else in games like this. That something else isn’t Sturridge though, much as we hoped it would be. We’ve reached the stage where I didn’t even want him to come on in this one. I knew he wouldn’t contribute anything the way the game was playing out and it looked like he knew too, as he didn’t even look arsed. It didn’t help him that Coutinho and Salah were brought off though. 

 

Sturridge’s lack of impact was highlighted further by how Oxlade-Chamberlain did. Where Sturridge ambled around and looked disinterested, AOC looked like he’d been shot out of a cannon. He was flying around and was positive in everything he attempted. 

 

Good for him, I’ve got doubts about him like we all have, but I’m rooting for him to prove us all wrong and make the kind of impact we need him to. He’s getting all kinds of flak, but this lad turned down more money at Arsenal and rejected a move to the Champions to come here. Let’s try to suspend our disbelief for a little while and see what he can do, as he deserves a chance. 

 

He should have been on sooner really, but not necessarily for Salah. Taking off the front three and replacing them like for like is probably where this suggestion that Klopp wasn’t adventurous enough has come from. It’s difficult to make a case for the changes he made, as the obvious move was to take off one of the two midfielders and drop Coutinho back there, with AOC giving us a second pacy option out wide. 

 

Klopp’s subs always come too late though and rarely make a difference to how the game is going. I saw on twitter that we haven’t scored after the 77th minute all season, we only have one goal after the 37th minute in the last 8 games and only one goal from a sub all season. That’s shit and doesn’t reflect well on Klopp’s in game management. 

 

Personally I’d have gone with Solanke for Firmino much earlier because he’s a different option who allows us to mix it up a bit. He’ll attack balls played into the box and his movement in there is great. We need to see more of him as what do we have to lose really at this point?
 
 
Team: Mignolet; Gomez, Matip, Lovren, Moreno; Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum; Salah (Oxlade-Chamberlain), Firmino (Solanke), Coutinho (Sturridge):


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It was a very poor execution of the typical Mourinho plan on their part. They survived through luck more than design - despite our confidence being shot with Mane out and a blunt midfield, & Klopp also desperately needing to avoid the loss.

 

The Mourinho away performance has become more and more a parody of itself: 1 goal & 14 shots in 6 away games against the top 6 while at United.

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The suggestions on TV that we didn't go for it came from Carragher, who said we should sacrifice a midfielder for a forward. Personally I thought that would have been reckless as it would have given Rashford & Lingard a sniff on the break. 

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I don't think you could ever accuse a Klopp team of not taking risks.  The only real difference I noticed was the full-backs holding their position and not bombing on all the time.  

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I think Chamberlain should start this week now out wide on the right and Solanke should be given a go up front. Sturridge should not be starting any games where the formation is him in the middle on his own even against sides like Maribor. He's just not good enough to play in that position. Wrap Salah in cotton wool for Sunday. If Chamberlain plays well I'd move Salah left and put Coutinho in midfield.

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The suggestions on TV that we didn't go for it came from Carragher, who said we should sacrifice a midfielder for a forward. Personally I thought that would have been reckless as it would have given Rashford & Lingard a sniff on the break.

Agreed. Carra was saying we knew how Negative they were so should have taken a Midfielder off. We do that, they could have changed their tactics too. I got no problems keeping it as it was.

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The suggestions on TV that we didn't go for it came from Carragher, who said we should sacrifice a midfielder for a forward. Personally I thought that would have been reckless as it would have given Rashford & Lingard a sniff on the break.

I thought I heard Tyler saying it to Neville Neville's lad before Carra piped up. After about 15-20 mins of the second half he said something like "Should the onus be on Liverpool to be more bold? What do you think, you little manc twat?"

 

I may have misheard the second sentence though.

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The suggestions on TV that we didn't go for it came from Carragher, who said we should sacrifice a midfielder for a forward. Personally I thought that would have been reckless as it would have given Rashford & Lingard a sniff on the break. 

 

Also agree, Klopp gave them no gifts and with a bit more composure we would have nicked the game. 

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I don't think you could ever accuse a Klopp team of not taking risks.  The only real difference I noticed was the full-backs holding their position and not bombing on all the time.  

 

Carra in Sky-Troll-makes-shit-up Shocker

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Top stuff as ever Dave.

 

I can't get the club owners and team management this season though. This team and squad is like watching a building site with 'work in progress' signs all over the gaff.

 

It's been like this for so many years through every manager since Kenny left his first stint and then Sooonnnneeess arrived and then ever since on a loop with each manager to various degrees. We get so close to former glories and then.. Bang - Mismanagement strikes again...

 

Why build a big new main stand and then leave the actual playing side with such obvious and glaring flawes?

 

It's like they aren't that bothered if we don't qualify for the Champions League again this year. I realise they aren't that bothered about winning the league or silverware but I thought they wanted someone to '$how them the money!' FFS...

 

Anyone know what they're smoking over there in Boston these days?

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One shot on target Fucking long ball merchant Jesus tap dancing Christ I hate that prick so much.

I know Dave's a bit of a goal-hanger but that's a bit strong mate.

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I think it's right that the Moreno performance was highlighted as well. As much as everyone groans when they see him start games (he obviously knows this and has to deal with that pressure in itself) he's actually been good this season. Not even just okay, he's been one of our most consistent players and that performance on Saturday topped his season off so far. I like Robertson and think he will get his chances but for me it's not looking so bleak at left back any more.

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I think it's right that the Moreno performance was highlighted as well. As much as everyone groans when they see him start games (he obviously knows this and has to deal with that pressure in itself) he's actually been good this season. Not even just okay, he's been one of our most consistent players and that performance on Saturday topped his season off so far. I like Robertson and think he will get his chances but for me it's not looking so bleak at left back any more.

 

I'm all for a dose of of optimism but TBH I've seen as much going to ground too soon, rash challenges in risky positions, runs in the opposite direction of play as before.  Luckily we've been able to recover the situation so far, but sooner or later it will tell.  Especially when teams work out that our Right back is not in fact our weak point.  When they go back to targetting left back then we'll see reality.

 

If Robertson isn't 1st choice by end of season, it'll be because he's as crap as the fannies in the transfer thread were bemoaning.

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He has his own style and it looks fucking horrific sometimes. If he plays like he did on Sunday though for the rest of the season there won't be much Robertson could do to keep him out of the side. He seems to have got some genuine confidence back in his game and it's come out of nowhere. He was very aggressive on Saturday without being over top.

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He has his own style and it looks fucking horrific sometimes. If he plays like he did on Sunday though for the rest of the season there won't be much Robertson could do to keep him out of the side. He seems to have got some genuine confidence back in his game and it's come out of nowhere. He was very aggressive on Saturday without being over top.

He looks great when the other team target Gomez, I'll give you that.  Under pressure though he reverts to type.  Which is basically the last thing we need right now.  Still with bus parkers and shit teams there's no doubt his pace et al is an asset.

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I thought Moreno was as suspect as ever defensively. Young and Lukaku both got behind him and he got lucky with a couple of freekicks. He was badly out of position a few times. I completely agree that he was good going forward but the fact that he won a few tackles and headers  doesn't make his defensive performance good in my opinion. 

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Moreno's been superb this season but people's minds seem made up on him.  Which is understandable, he was dire.  If he was a summer signing, he'd be down as a success so far.

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The thing I find baffling that Klopp played for a 0-0 by not taking risks thing is that Rodgers gets criticised for going gung ho against Mourinho in 2014 and losing instead of taking the 0-0.

 

It's doubled standards. 

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We are actually doing pretty well against weaker teams this year, we played only 2 out of our 8 games against bottom 10 sides and won both (Leicester, Palace), out of 6 games played against top 10 sides, we only managed to beat Arsenal.

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The thing I find baffling that Klopp played for a 0-0 by not taking risks thing is that Rodgers gets criticised for going gung ho against Mourinho in 2014 and losing instead of taking the 0-0.

 

It's doubled standards.

One game was a game that the league title hinged on and we didn't have to win. The other was a game against a team that were there for the taking and a team we trailed in the league by 7 points early doors.

 

I don't know what the specific criticisms are that you speak of, but the two instances you are comparing cannot be compared in the grand scheme of things.

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One game was a game that the league title hinged on and we didn't have to win. The other was a game against a team that were there for the taking and a team we trailed in the league by 7 points early doors.

 

I don't know what the specific criticisms are that you speak of, but the two instances you are comparing cannot be compared in the grand scheme of things.

 

A draw against Chelsea that time and we would have still won the league. We didn't need to win it. 

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