georgeharrisong

I wasn't in favour of Kenny getting the job in the summer - thought it was a poisoned chalice with all the uncertainty and financial distress that was going on. Now maybe just the time though. We were always going to get a journeyman mediocrity in the circs, but i think people - especially those who'd become so rabidly anti rafa that they'd lost any sense of proportion - needed to see that before they'd accept it - i remember some tool on here telling me with absolute assurance that we wouldn't appoint roy, a matter of days before the inevitable happened. Well, we've seen the consequences now, and only the terminally deluded can imagine we're better off post rafa, or that it's likely to improve under roy. Rumour has it that a number of our senior players were vocal in wishing for the removal of the last manager, Carra and Stevie being the most prominent. I have absolutely no idea how much truth there is in that, and I choose not to give it credence in the absence of hard facts. However, if that kind of discontent is manifest among the squad then we need someone with a big enough reputation, and big enough bollocks to stand up to it and remind everyone that nobody is bigger than Liverpool FC. The only person with that amount of clout is the King himself. Following a revamp of the current board set up, I believe he is the man to genuinely steady the ship.

me neither - but who on earth did anyone think we were going to get? nobody with any real cv behind him was going to come to a crisis ridden club that was burdened with huge and unsurmountable debts. in those circs you either keep hold of hte manager you've got, or accept a middle of the road journeyman. the club plumped for tha latter option and we're seeing the results - depressingly predictable. the bottom line is we need football people on the board, people with a bit of an understanding of the game, what we've got are business suits - and while i'm happy to admit they played an absolute blinder in getting shot of the tumours (for which i'll gladly shake their hands), it's now time for them to jog on. it will be interesting to see if nesv have enough about them to put decisions re managers and football matters in the hands of someone who genuinely understands the game. imo, there's no point sacking roy until that bit is in place.

first - it wasn't just the keane money, was it? it's not as if that was the one little 'stroke' the owners pulled...unless i'm being unkind and they're only duplicitous parsimonious twats on very very rare occasions. second - bellamy went to part fund torres, another signing that rafa can take credit for - and not one of his earlier signings either - i know that spoils your point about him doing well at first than messing it all up. sorry. I'd take torres over bellamy any day - your opinion is your own and i fully respect it. it comes back to the same question though - why does a team like liverpool have to sell in order to buy? and remember - we only had bellamy in the first place because finances meant that we had to gamble on mid price players. and while i quite liked him while he was here, the fact remains that if you continually have to gamble, you're often going to fall short. Dossena was just one of those gambles, a stop gap to plug a hole in the squad. i don't think he was ever intended to be more than that. didn't work, but it was by no means certain that he'd fail third - aquilani. we just don't know how well a fully fit and acclimatised aquilani would have done in a benitez team. may have been great. may have flopped. we just don't know, so it's a tad disingenuous using him as an example of an outright failure.

even if you agree with that statement, you still have to ask why? did Benitez have a free hand in hte market? was he having to plug huge gaps in the squad with a budget consisting of a fifty pence piece and a bag of dry roasted? Did he not have the rug pulled after he was told we hasd x amount of pennies available for transfers? You don't think this bit of contextualisation is important? And big money being spent? Did we not make a profit in the last transfer windows, (clubs like Crewe do that, not Liverpool)...what happened to the Alonso money, that was paid up front? The amount we got from offloading Barry back to Spurs....where did that go? If you're going to label transfers as failures, fine - but you need to look hard at the reasons for that, and they weren't all down to Benitez; effectively he was asked to tend to a gaping wound with nothing more than a strip of elastoplast.

Hyypia was not first choice cb by then - but that's beside the point. Even without the three you mentioned the squad he left would destroy the one he inherited. Have you forgotten Owen's defection at the very close of the transfer window? Which striker inherited by Benitez would match Torres? Would the enthusiastic but indisciplined Gerrard he found not have been destroyed by hte far more aware footballer bearing the same name that Rafa nurtured? Do you honestly think that any team managed by Rafa in his final year would have had a place for Traore in it? I could go on...and on and on - but what's the point? There is no rational basis for the assertion that rafa left behind a worse squad than he inherited. None. And even if you want to bring up the loss of Alonso, all that does is beg the question - why did we have to consider offloading an out of form Alonso (and he had been out of form for over a season at that time) in order to fund such a basic acquisition as a second striker - surely an absolutely essential part of any Premiership squad? Unless the whole ownership and debt thing can be fairly blamed on the manager, then we really have to look at all the other factors which affected our performance and recruitment over those last three years.

you're serious, really? you honestly think the squad he inherited could have stuffed Real and the mancs back to back...because the squad he left was pretty much the one that did just that, the squad that amassed more points in a season than anyone since Kenny. (the fact that the squad he inherited did no such thing suggests that there is some weight to this assertion....) I'd lay any amount of money on the likes of Masch, Torres, Agger, Reina, etc taking on Diouf, Biscan, Diao, Kewell and friends - and ripping them a new one....

yeah, 'cos that twit benitez would never think of playing him at left back......

This! The guy was class, the guy was one of us. For all that last season was poor, when were we ever the type of club to sack a manager for just one poor season? (...and it isn't as if there weren't plenty of extenuating circumstances....!) He understood the club, loved the city. Hope he comes back.

benitez had no more control than o'neill at villa, moyes at everton and that drunken twat at old toilet. benitez fought to ensure that the manager's role was free from unwarranted boardroom meddling. read your history - shankly fought the same fight. whatever you think of the rafa as manager, he got that spot on.

2 CL finals in 3 years...FA cup, etc etc, best points total for fuck knows how long...yet the man was vilified...remember those terrible dark days of negative football when we'd stick 4 past Real Madrid midweek, and another 4 past the mancs at the weekend? oh, how we suffered... those who are glad to have seen him sacked by the bandits who are systematically raping our club may like to mull this over while they wave him off to join the european champions, while we sit rudderless - ruminating on the merits of roy hodgson. :wallbutt:

bollocks to that. the bnp do all they can to end free speech for everyone that opposes them, making cynical use of the very democracy they wishto crush. nobody has a right to crush democracy and attack people because of their race. i defend the bnp's right to have their fucking goolies cut off and fed to their pit bulls, but that's an end to it. trotsky said that we should engage indebate with nazis, but if they fail to mend their ways we should acquaint their heads with the pavement. hitler stated that the only way his movement could have been crushed would have been if the forces of democracy had crushed it when it was still small. rather than slag off our blue brothers, i sincerely hope we'll be standing next to them opposing these scum when they try to deface our city with their bile.

If he's not on the wind up he's certainly on the beak. Taking back the Mourhino statement means nothing while he stands proudly by the rest of the cretinous drivel he's inflicted on us. How bored do we have to be to spend precious minutes on this meaningless, god forsaken, barren thread? Serious point - I'm only here myself because I'm idly looking for something to distract me from the absolute torpor of sitting on top of the league for the first time since I was a child.....

Chelsea have performed better away from home this year, so the fixtures may favour them this time. We have to play 6 top ten teams at home - while this should favour us our home form actually needs to improve somewhat before we can get overly confident. Meanwhile the Mancs can come back to within a point of us if the win their games in hand, but then their form this year suggests that they can't count their chickens either. So far this is not like other seasons, there are far too many ifs and buts between now and May for any of us to make a clear prediction. FWIW the Mancs have experience of chasing down the last half of a league title - we don't. And importantly, it's extremely bad luck for us to start predicting positive outcomes... who can forget certain of our players planning their CL winners tattos a few weeks before Athens? Said at the time it would end in tears. Learn your lesson children... we'll be lucky to finish fifth!

good point. plus the fact that our squad has significantly improved in quality (not just value) since he took over... does anyone seriously think that the squad that ged left in 2004..the squad that squeaked into the CL because of the abject collapse of newcastle that year...would have ever topped the prem like rafa's squad is now? of course not. frankly i'm tired of the fuck witted questioning of our manager. i don't mind criticism and debate, but so often when rafa gets it inthe neck it is totally without rational basis. you'd almost think some people had an agenda. Either that or they're just so unused to having a good side to support that they get disorientated and want the reassurance that comes with consistent mediocrity. Bring back Phil Babb, Bjornebye and Istvan Kozma...them were the days....

ah bless. chill my friend, and join me in a rousing rendition of 'supecalifragilisticborussiamoenchengladbach'. go on, ya know ya wanna...i'll even treat you to a curryworst and warsteiner. :drool: meanwhile c'mon BMG

Fishing, and not a bad effort for a beginner, but I'm afraid you'll have to up your game - If you really wanted us to take that seriously you should have referred (in passing) to reaching the last 4 of the CL three seasons out of four and continued progress in the PL. With this level of wind up you'll only pull in the totally clueless tiddlers who swim these waters. Take a leaf out of Royal Family's book: A mixture of conjecture, baseless assertion and a pig headed refusal to look at the whole picture will keep a pointless and insubstantial thread going for three whole pages! Genius. I even joined in myself. Royal Family, I take my hat off to you. :yes:

was thinking the very same thing. suspect parry won't finalise anything until he's done his 'pull that finger' gag one more time- always a favourite, along with the squirting flower in the buttonhole.

a local paper is very dependent on good relations with it's most important sources. that's why local rags rarely give the police a bad press, whatever they get up to they remain the best and most important source of the human interest stories which every local rag relies on. Even nationals send a non local reporter up to do the hatchet job, so the local correspondent keeps his good working relations. In the case of the Echo, Liverpool FC is one very very important source. The consequences of being cold shouldered at Anfield are far from negligible. So to print this story is to take a risk. Maybe then, just maybe, the fact that the Echo is prepared to take such a risk suggests that the Twat Twins' tenure on the club is now somewhat precarious? Or is that wishful thinking?

Nice read that. Firstly Greg Murphy stands out as a reasonable, articulate and downright decent guy who loves his club and its traditions. (Bluekipper gives the impression that all Evertonians are somewhat challenged in these respects). I have to admit I was expecting more of the 'ifithadntavebinfer....' ranting. Good effort. Secondly, we should take note that we aren't the only club in the city in the thrall of owners who can best be described as Gobshites, if you'll pardon my Latin. While I confess to being the first to laugh like a drain at their shenanagins - and to have more than once used a tesco bag for purposes other than those for which it was originally intended - I also know how much it hurts when the likes of Kenwright (in their case), or the Twat Twins (in ours), piss all over you and your club. It remains a fact that this city needs two teams. Without the rivalry, without the banter, without each other - we are both diminished. There are times, despite all that's been said these last few years, that we need to stand together as Scousers against a common foe.

2 pts for a win still rules liverpool out. arsenal would have a bit of a chance with their game in hand

rashid - please don't call someone a phallus until you can spell it. as far as i can see, rafa is being consistently pragmatic. having a spat with one or other of these cunts was inevitable given their divergent goals (rafa;to win everything, g&h; to spin a buck or two). equally, finding a way of rubbing along was inevitable. rafa doesn't want to walk out, therefore his only option is to do what he can. i don't like the way subtle questioning of rafa's tenure here has crept into these discussions...even those who propose focussing on the americans, then parry...then the coaching staff fall into this. i feel that our march to the the semi final of the world's most prestigious tournament (again) despite the arseburgers and their shenanigans at board level is more than enough reason to canonise rafa. certainly not happy slagging him off based on half baked supposition and tabloid shite.

and the prize for the most stupid, ill conceived thread goes to..... as someone said - this hurts my eyes. the original post is so moronic as to be jaw dropping. we're then treated to random references to shareliverpool, cack handed statements re rafa 'saving his arse' and to top it all, i found myself agreeing with something rashid said. wtf? :wallbutt:

why thank you. it's not often one feels moved to vent one's spleen...

relieved to see so many people disagreeing with this post. not about to hurl any abuse, merely point out that many of the basic assumptions are misplaced. 2005 - he was forced to bring didi on? you cannot back up that assertion with a scrap of evidence. at half time he had many options. didi was far from the most obvious. at 0-3many would have flung on an extra striker. - we were lucky because of team passion? seriously? sure there was passion. but they weren't exactly headless chickens out there. they were organised. disciplined. despite adopting a new formation. christ, stevie even filled in at rb in the end. that's not luck. it's nouse. a club built on bringing youth through? not always. that's ipswich you're thinking of. we've always had our local lads. but shankly built his team around yeats, st john - 'the signings that liverpool was built on' then there were the keegan's, dalglish, rush, souness...i could go on. it was not unusual once for lfc to break transfer records, from the first £100,000 teenager to barnes etc. dalglish himself hardly came cheap. i can't think of a great team that was built primarily through home grown players. basing opinions on such shaky foundations is dangerous enough, questioning the motives of the motives of rafa is stepping into a whole new plane. the poor sod has done nothing that suggests he doesn't have lfc's interests at heart. the problem was the owners have their own, far darker agenda. rafa saw that before we did. was he wrong to raise the alarm. if your house was being burgled would you not scream like fuck from the rooftops to alert a sleeping world? and would you then expect someone to question your motives for rousing them from their blissful slumbers? rafa has not made lfc a laughing stock. hicks et al have done that. and as long as some are prepared to deflect attention onto rafa - a decent, honest man - then the lying, fraudulent shits can continue laughing at us. as i said, i've no intention of hurling the abuse you anticipated. i found your post enlightening. i now see that someone can follow lfc for two decades, yet still understand nothing. which is fine, because if rafa goes, hicks stays, that's exactly what we will have.