Fulham 1 Liverpool 3 (Apr 21 2024)

Good stuff, Dave.  For me, Gakpo has really stepped up.  His speciality is picking up the ball on the edge of the attacking third, turning and bursting forward through tight spaces.  We need to use that better with the movement ahead of him.  He can then install himself as the Bobby replacement, linking the last phase of attack.  

On your excellent point (made on the pod, too) about the "moment" the ball is played during a VAR check, this is absolutely crucial.  If my memory is correct, there are 24 frames per second in digital video.  If you filmed a foot kicking a ball, the "contact" will cover virtually all 24 frames - and sometimes more, depending on the type of strike.

Now, when two people are running (sometimes in opposite directions, so, unscientifically "twice" the speed!) the offside line shifts massively in a split second.  So, the moment the "pause" button is pressed is VITAL.  Yet, pundits and journalists never seem to talk about it!  There is an arbitrary "press pause there" mumbled by the VAR, and then the lines are the only thing that is analysed!  But if a few frames are rewound of moved forward - the boot will still be in contact with the ball ("the moment the ball is played") yet the lines will be in completely different places.

VAR is a shambles and it has had a detrimental effect on the sport.

Lastly, I just wanted to mention that Alisson corner.  My mate used to referee in a Christian league.  He loved it.  Yes it was physical and competitive, but when it came down to contentious decisions, it was so easy because nobody cheated - if you touched the ball last you admitted it.  Sometimes they'd be so honest that there's be a disagreement: "Mate, I did touch it, it's a corner." / "No, you didn't, I did, it's a goal kick..."

I couldn't help but think of that league when I saw Alisson touch that ball over.  Everything about him wanted the ref to give a corner.  So, I think almost subconsciously, he took the goal kick he never wanted to a daft place when our players weren't even in the right positions.  I'm not saying he wanted it to result in a goal, but he was defo uncomfortable with gaining an unfair advantage and was prepared to conceded possession.

His heart belongs to Jesus, and there's nothin we can do about it!

5 minutes ago, razor said:

Good stuff, Dave.  For me, Gakpo has really stepped up.  His speciality is picking up the ball on the edge of the attacking third, turning and bursting forward through tight spaces.  We need to use that better with the movement ahead of him.  He can then install himself as the Bobby replacement, linking the last phase of attack.  

 

On your excellent point (made on the pod, too) about the "moment" the ball is played during a VAR check, this is absolutely crucial.  If my memory is correct, there are 24 frames per second in digital video.  If you filmed a foot kicking a ball, the "contact" will cover virtually all 24 frames - and sometimes more, depending on the type of strike.

 

Now, when two people are running (sometimes in opposite directions, so, unscientifically "twice" the speed!) the offside line shifts massively in a split second.  So, the moment the "pause" button is pressed is VITAL.  Yet, pundits and journalists never seem to talk about it!  There is an arbitrary "press pause there" mumbled by the VAR, and then the lines are the only thing that is analysed!  But if a few frames are rewound of moved forward - the boot will still be in contact with the ball ("the moment the ball is played") yet the lines will be in completely different places.

 

VAR is a shambles and it has had a detrimental effect on the sport.

 

Lastly, I just wanted to mention that Alisson corner.  My mate used to referee in a Christian league.  He loved it.  Yes it was physical and competitive, but when it came down to contentious decisions, it was so easy because nobody cheated - if you touched the ball last you admitted it.  Sometimes they'd be so honest that there's be a disagreement: "Mate, I did touch it, it's a corner." / "No, you didn't, I did, it's a goal kick..."

 

I couldn't help but think of that league when I saw Alisson touch that ball over.  Everything about him wanted the ref to give a corner.  So, I think almost subconsciously, he took the goal kick he never wanted to a daft place when our players weren't even in the right positions.  I'm not saying he wanted it to result in a goal, but he was defo uncomfortable with gaining an unfair advantage and was prepared to conceded possession.

 

His heart belongs to Jesus, and there's nothin we can do about it!

 

 

Completely agree- 2 people running alongside one other will fluctuate between being off and on

21 minutes ago, razor said:

On your excellent point (made on the pod, too) about the "moment" the ball is played during a VAR check, this is absolutely crucial.  If my memory is correct, there are 24 frames per second in digital video.  If you filmed a foot kicking a ball, the "contact" will cover virtually all 24 frames - and sometimes more, depending on the type of strike.

 

Now, when two people are running (sometimes in opposite directions, so, unscientifically "twice" the speed!) the offside line shifts massively in a split second.  So, the moment the "pause" button is pressed is VITAL.  Yet, pundits and journalists never seem to talk about it!  There is an arbitrary "press pause there" mumbled by the VAR, and then the lines are the only thing that is analysed!  But if a few frames are rewound of moved forward - the boot will still be in contact with the ball ("the moment the ball is played") yet the lines will be in completely different places.

It should be 60fps, 24 is cinema film rather than digital. But the point still stands, the point of contact with the ball and the relative positions of players might not be captured in the same frame, so measuring to seemingly sub-centimetre distances isn't possible. I'm sure I remember an article which said the best it could be is more like 6 inches. Strangely, that doesn't seem to have been taken up, nor has whether the pitch is modeled to the accuracy required, the lines being drawn have to be absolutely parallel to something, and with the best will in the world, the guy drawing the touchlines isn't going to be spot on to millimeters.

Mr Google tells me it is 30fps. In the good old days we’d just have said “level”.

11 hours ago, razor said:

On your excellent point (made on the pod, too) about the "moment" the ball is played during a VAR check, this is absolutely crucial.  If my memory is correct, there are 24 frames per second in digital video.  If you filmed a foot kicking a ball, the "contact" will cover virtually all 24 frames - and sometimes more, depending on the type of strike.

 

Now, when two people are running (sometimes in opposite directions, so, unscientifically "twice" the speed!) the offside line shifts massively in a split second.  So, the moment the "pause" button is pressed is VITAL.  Yet, pundits and journalists never seem to talk about it!  There is an arbitrary "press pause there" mumbled by the VAR, and then the lines are the only thing that is analysed!  But if a few frames are rewound of moved forward - the boot will still be in contact with the ball ("the moment the ball is played") yet the lines will be in completely different places.

 

Let’s use some math and science.

When you kick a football the foot is in contact with the ball for about 1/100 of a second (http://www.mathematicshed.com/uploads/1/2/5/7/12572836/physicsofkickingsoccerball.pdf ).

When you have players running in different directions the ”double speed” effect is about 10-15 meters/second, or 10-15 cm per 1/100 of a second.

Meaning: In the 1/100 of a second from the ball is first in contact with the foot until it leaves the foot the distance between the defender and the attacker will change by 10-15 cm (4-6 inches). We’re talking about 1/100 of a second and the time you freeze the picture is indeed a factor.

3 hours ago, Barnesey said:

Mr Google tells me it is 30fps. In the good old days we’d just have said “level”.

Says it's 50 fps here- https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

So a frame every 2/100ths of a second and the possible margin of error would be 4-6 inches as @JustTosh outlined above if the chosen frame isn't exactly at the point of contact. So unless they're using much higher speed cameras to capture the offsides, then what they're doing is a load of bollocks.

16 minutes ago, Mudface said:

 

Says it's 50 fps here- https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

 

So a frame every 2/100ths of a second and the possible margin of error would be 4-6 inches as @JustTosh outlined above if the chosen frame isn't exactly at the point of contact. So unless they're using much higher speed cameras to capture the offsides, then what they're doing is a load of bollocks.

If the frame is 2/100the of a second one must double the distance from 4-6 inches to 8-12 inches. I.e. Frame from when the foot is in contact with the ball, next frame 2/100 sec later the distance between the players could be app 10 inches.

38 minutes ago, JustTosh said:

If the frame is 2/100the of a second one must double the distance from 4-6 inches to 8-12 inches. I.e. Frame from when the foot is in contact with the ball, next frame 2/100 sec later the distance between the players could be app 10 inches.

I'm probably overthinking it, I thought if frames are captured at 0.02, 0.04 and 0.06 of a second etc, then the worst that could happen is that the contact is made at 0.03, 0.05, 0.07 etc, so 1/100th of a second out. That would depend on the VAR actually picking the closest frame though, so if the contact is at 0.035, he would have to pick 0.4 and not 0.02. I think that's probably beyond them though... Anyway, if these figures on FPS and ball and player speeds are correct, then it's obvious they can't measure to the distances they are claiming.

I believe the Hawkeye cameras used for goal line technology have a much higher shutter speed of over 300 fps so I don't think there's a problem there otherwise they wouldn't be using them in other sports.

Some proper nerd shit going on in this thread!

Harvey’s role in tgdd ex Gravenberch goal shouldn’t be underestimated. Having crossed the ball, he chased back to intercept Iwobi’s pass before laying a nice, albeit straightforward ball to Gravenberch for an assist. 

I think Leno ‘s save from Gakpo - who had a good game - was better than you give him credit for. 

Nah it's straight at him. I'd expect any top flight keeper to save that. Lovely strike though.

Van Dijk celebrating before Gravenberch had even set himself to shoot was quite the thing though.

23 minutes ago, dave u said:

Some proper nerd shit going on in this thread!

Just wait until the differential equations come out.

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

 

I'm probably overthinking it, I thought if frames are captured at 0.02, 0.04 and 0.06 of a second etc, then the worst that could happen is that the contact is made at 0.03, 0.05, 0.07 etc, so 1/100th of a second out. That would depend on the VAR actually picking the closest frame though, so if the contact is at 0.035, he would have to pick 0.4 and not 0.02. I think that's probably beyond them though... Anyway, if these figures on FPS and ball and player speeds are correct, then it's obvious they can't measure to the distances they are claiming.

 

I believe the Hawkeye cameras used for goal line technology have a much higher shutter speed of over 300 fps so I don't think there's a problem there otherwise they wouldn't be using them in other sports.

As Dave just seems to love nerd shit.

Running speed:

The world record in the 100 meter athletics race is just under 10 secs. Before you grew old and ugly you‘d probably be able to run it at 15 secs or better. Same with me.  Let’s say the two of us ran 100 meters in opposite directions and a picture was taken of us as we passed each other. Next pic, 2/100 sec later, the distance between us would be 26 cm (=10 inches.)  

Time ball is in contact with foot:

1/100 sec according to http://www.mathematicshed.com/uploads/1/2/5/7/12572836/physicsofkickingsoccerball.pdf

What is the precise width of a gnat’s knacker? 

At my age watching my reds since 1971 i can get very reflective quicker after losing my shit, or worshiping at the Anfield Altar. For me the Title race is run, we will finish 2nd or 3rd. I will enjoy our run in and hope that whatever happens we give JNK something to enjoy, more moments he can look back on.

Some will only want to reflect on the season once its over, for me personally that's too late,, Why? because he will be gone by then.

Don't get me wrong i want us to win out and see what happens, I want to win the PL for him as much as the next fan, i am just relaxed about it whether it happens or not

I look on it like this. Imagine just for a second Klopp was staying to see out his contract. Expectation and the desperation drops, we don't chase the Fairytale or the Hollywood ending, and after last seasons debacle he and the lads had to endure then deliver this:

Much changed Squad, New Midfield additions

Bajetic, Matip Thiago out all season.

Literally EVERY player be missing through Injury for significant periods

Encounter countless officiating errors that are beyond belief in key games

Consistently give goals away either first or equalisers

Only keep 9 clean sheets in 33 games.....

Lose one of you strikers because some cunt kidnapped his father!

BUT

Win a trophy.

You will flutter around at the top of the table, possibly winning the League, at least going close.

After 33 games you will have only lost 2 Morally  

Discover that Kelleher is a really top class back up keepe

See who this Quansah lad is that none of you had heard of, and how fckin good he is

Emergence of Bradley which will see twitter virgins want Trent sold!

See Dom look every inch the new Gerrard for a portion of the season when he carried us very early on. huge potential

Endo after a shaky start work it out and became a cult hero and looks a fckin steal

Macca at 6 now at 8 now doing what we expected him to do even though he looks knackered after a warm up!

Joe Gomez being Injury free and fucking sensational every game wherever he played

Robbo and Virgil getting their Mojo back

The development of Danns, McConnell, and Clarke.......

Just because we shit the bed twice v Man Utd (no lack of effort, just Composure and game management) and Palace at Home ("one of those that even City get") we are moping and groaning why? because Klopp is going. That is the only reason. The pressure and emotion we are putting on ourselves, its actually impacting negatively on the atmosphere sometimes when we want to celebrate a generational manager

Klopp will be disappointed at the end of the season if we don't win the title, not for himself, but for us, the players, everyone he holds dear, which is why we are so desperate to win for him. 

I am trying to look at it from HIS perspective.

If this very young squad can develop as they should, we are going to be in for a fantastic next few years, they are Klopp players he will get all the reflective glory and deservedly so.

I for one am proud of the lads (still 5 to go) despite what happens, as i look around at the other Squads in the PL there is none as powerful and talented as ours, (when they are all fit). We are challenging them on their "Mentality" but they love Klopp as much as we do, we are ALL trying too hard, human nature. Take his departure out of this and what a fuckin squad we have, and what a season we have had given last season and the adversity this season. 

Look how thin City Squad is now, Chelsea's full of kids and big time knobheads, Arsenal, relatively lucky with Injuries but thin as fuck...

We have world class players, we have young players who will be world class players.

The sooner we get off the Fairytale train and get on board relishing and celebrating the young talent that is Klopp's  legacy the sooner we can enjoy the last few weeks of him.

We all want it for Him, but lets look at what we have achieved this season despite all the setbacks, Injuries, Officials, Finishing, Conceding... but lets celebrate what we have done, and relish what they could do in the next 5 years..... and go out celebrating the Man we will miss

That's a great post. I wish I could feel like that. I'm still annoyed as fuck by the last few weeks though!

You are still young Ushersun

1 hour ago, King Kenny 86 said:

At my age watching my reds since 1971 i can get very reflective quicker after losing my shit, or worshiping at the Anfield Altar. For me the Title race is run, we will finish 2nd or 3rd. I will enjoy our run in and hope that whatever happens we give JNK something to enjoy, more moments he can look back on.

 

Some will only want to reflect on the season once its over, for me personally that's too late,, Why? because he will be gone by then.

 

Don't get me wrong i want us to win out and see what happens, I want to win the PL for him as much as the next fan, i am just relaxed about it whether it happens or not

 

I look on it like this. Imagine just for a second Klopp was staying to see out his contract. Expectation and the desperation drops, we don't chase the Fairytale or the Hollywood ending, and after last seasons debacle he and the lads had to endure then deliver this:

 

Much changed Squad, New Midfield additions

Bajetic, Matip Thiago out all season.

Literally EVERY player be missing through Injury for significant periods

Encounter countless officiating errors that are beyond belief in key games

Consistently give goals away either first or equalisers

Only keep 9 clean sheets in 33 games.....

Lose one of you strikers because some cunt kidnapped his father!

 

BUT

Win a trophy.

You will flutter around at the top of the table, possibly winning the League, at least going close.

After 33 games you will have only lost 2 Morally  

Discover that Kelleher is a really top class back up keepe

See who this Quansah lad is that none of you had heard of, and how fckin good he is

Emergence of Bradley which will see twitter virgins want Trent sold!

See Dom look every inch the new Gerrard for a portion of the season when he carried us very early on. huge potential

Endo after a shaky start work it out and became a cult hero and looks a fckin steal

Macca at 6 now at 8 now doing what we expected him to do even though he looks knackered after a warm up!

Joe Gomez being Injury free and fucking sensational every game wherever he played

Robbo and Virgil getting their Mojo back

The development of Danns, McConnell, and Clarke.......

 

Just because we shit the bed twice v Man Utd (no lack of effort, just Composure and game management) and Palace at Home ("one of those that even City get") we are moping and groaning why? because Klopp is going. That is the only reason. The pressure and emotion we are putting on ourselves, its actually impacting negatively on the atmosphere sometimes when we want to celebrate a generational manager

 

Klopp will be disappointed at the end of the season if we don't win the title, not for himself, but for us, the players, everyone he holds dear, which is why we are so desperate to win for him. 

I am trying to look at it from HIS perspective.

 

If this very young squad can develop as they should, we are going to be in for a fantastic next few years, they are Klopp players he will get all the reflective glory and deservedly so.

 

I for one am proud of the lads (still 5 to go) despite what happens, as i look around at the other Squads in the PL there is none as powerful and talented as ours, (when they are all fit). We are challenging them on their "Mentality" but they love Klopp as much as we do, we are ALL trying too hard, human nature. Take his departure out of this and what a fuckin squad we have, and what a season we have had given last season and the adversity this season. 

Look how thin City Squad is now, Chelsea's full of kids and big time knobheads, Arsenal, relatively lucky with Injuries but thin as fuck...

We have world class players, we have young players who will be world class players.

The sooner we get off the Fairytale train and get on board relishing and celebrating the young talent that is Klopp's  legacy the sooner we can enjoy the last few weeks of him.

 

We all want it for Him, but lets look at what we have achieved this season despite all the setbacks, Injuries, Officials, Finishing, Conceding... but lets celebrate what we have done, and relish what they could do in the next 5 years..... and go out celebrating the Man we will miss

Nice one.

It amazes me how Juergen has kept going with all the adversity constantly thrown at him throughout his managerial career. At Dortmund he was up against a club that regularly nicked his best players off him. Here, he's been up against the oil cheats, and even then, lots of other shit along the way. Divock on fire? - along comes Funes Mori to break his ankle. Sakho - heroic on the Europa run, along comes a dope charge which puts him out of the final, but eventually just disappears (we end up with Kolo Toure in defence). Pandemic comes along - first title in 30 years and we can't even celebrate with the team, Alisson loses his Dad in a drowning accident, Klopp can't get to his Mum's funeral. The Diaz kidnapping! The one season we're relatively unaffected by injuries, we won the fucking thing. 

Small wonder he needs a break. But what a fantastic 9 years it's been. Will we ever see such a perfect fit between manager and club again?

3 hours ago, DaveT said:

Nice one.

It amazes me how Juergen has kept going with all the adversity constantly thrown at him throughout his managerial career. At Dortmund he was up against a club that regularly nicked his best players off him. Here, he's been up against the oil cheats, and even then, lots of other shit along the way. Divock on fire? - along comes Funes Mori to break his ankle. Sakho - heroic on the Europa run, along comes a dope charge which puts him out of the final, but eventually just disappears (we end up with Kolo Toure in defence). Pandemic comes along - first title in 30 years and we can't even celebrate with the team, Alisson loses his Dad in a drowning accident, Klopp can't get to his Mum's funeral. The Diaz kidnapping! The one season we're relatively unaffected by injuries, we won the fucking thing. 

Small wonder he needs a break. But what a fantastic 9 years it's been. Will we ever see such a perfect fit between manager and club again?

 

He's a fucking jinx...

11 hours ago, JustTosh said:

 

Let’s use some math and science.

 

When you kick a football the foot is in contact with the ball for about 1/100 of a second (http://www.mathematicshed.com/uploads/1/2/5/7/12572836/physicsofkickingsoccerball.pdf ).

 

When you have players running in different directions the ”double speed” effect is about 10-15 meters/second, or 10-15 cm per 1/100 of a second.

 

Meaning: In the 1/100 of a second from the ball is first in contact with the foot until it leaves the foot the distance between the defender and the attacker will change by 10-15 cm (4-6 inches). We’re talking about 1/100 of a second and the time you freeze the picture is indeed a factor.

Had to neg math, it's mathS

With Jota injured ( of course he is ) I would play Salah, Nunez and Diaz up front at Goodison.

On 23/04/2024 at 15:53, King Kenny 86 said:

At my age watching my reds since 1971 i can get very reflective quicker after losing my shit, or worshiping at the Anfield Altar. For me the Title race is run, we will finish 2nd or 3rd. I will enjoy our run in and hope that whatever happens we give JNK something to enjoy, more moments he can look back on.

 

Some will only want to reflect on the season once its over, for me personally that's too late,, Why? because he will be gone by then.

 

Don't get me wrong i want us to win out and see what happens, I want to win the PL for him as much as the next fan, i am just relaxed about it whether it happens or not

 

I look on it like this. Imagine just for a second Klopp was staying to see out his contract. Expectation and the desperation drops, we don't chase the Fairytale or the Hollywood ending, and after last seasons debacle he and the lads had to endure then deliver this:

 

Much changed Squad, New Midfield additions

Bajetic, Matip Thiago out all season.

Literally EVERY player be missing through Injury for significant periods

Encounter countless officiating errors that are beyond belief in key games

Consistently give goals away either first or equalisers

Only keep 9 clean sheets in 33 games.....

Lose one of you strikers because some cunt kidnapped his father!

 

BUT

Win a trophy.

You will flutter around at the top of the table, possibly winning the League, at least going close.

After 33 games you will have only lost 2 Morally  

Discover that Kelleher is a really top class back up keepe

See who this Quansah lad is that none of you had heard of, and how fckin good he is

Emergence of Bradley which will see twitter virgins want Trent sold!

See Dom look every inch the new Gerrard for a portion of the season when he carried us very early on. huge potential

Endo after a shaky start work it out and became a cult hero and looks a fckin steal

Macca at 6 now at 8 now doing what we expected him to do even though he looks knackered after a warm up!

Joe Gomez being Injury free and fucking sensational every game wherever he played

Robbo and Virgil getting their Mojo back

The development of Danns, McConnell, and Clarke.......

 

Just because we shit the bed twice v Man Utd (no lack of effort, just Composure and game management) and Palace at Home ("one of those that even City get") we are moping and groaning why? because Klopp is going. That is the only reason. The pressure and emotion we are putting on ourselves, its actually impacting negatively on the atmosphere sometimes when we want to celebrate a generational manager

 

Klopp will be disappointed at the end of the season if we don't win the title, not for himself, but for us, the players, everyone he holds dear, which is why we are so desperate to win for him. 

I am trying to look at it from HIS perspective.

 

If this very young squad can develop as they should, we are going to be in for a fantastic next few years, they are Klopp players he will get all the reflective glory and deservedly so.

 

I for one am proud of the lads (still 5 to go) despite what happens, as i look around at the other Squads in the PL there is none as powerful and talented as ours, (when they are all fit). We are challenging them on their "Mentality" but they love Klopp as much as we do, we are ALL trying too hard, human nature. Take his departure out of this and what a fuckin squad we have, and what a season we have had given last season and the adversity this season. 

Look how thin City Squad is now, Chelsea's full of kids and big time knobheads, Arsenal, relatively lucky with Injuries but thin as fuck...

We have world class players, we have young players who will be world class players.

The sooner we get off the Fairytale train and get on board relishing and celebrating the young talent that is Klopp's  legacy the sooner we can enjoy the last few weeks of him.

 

We all want it for Him, but lets look at what we have achieved this season despite all the setbacks, Injuries, Officials, Finishing, Conceding... but lets celebrate what we have done, and relish what they could do in the next 5 years..... and go out celebrating the Man we will miss

I disagree on the strength of the squad Klopp is leaving us (and actually said so here before things went to shit - "luckily" for me, less disappointment to feel).

But I just want to highlight your post, the tone of it and the general points you make - especially tonight. 

It's been an absolute rollercoaster this ride with Klopp but the highs were easily worth any of the lows including the current one.