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"Should we persist with three at the back?"

    Brendan Rodgers' recent switch to a 3-4-1-2 system has had mixed results, with 2 wins, a draw and a defeat. Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge are thriving, it's opened up an extra spot for one of the abundance of centre backs available, but the midfield has suffered and Victor Moses looks like a fish out of water. So, is it time to revert back to a more familiar system? Three of TLW's finest share their thoughts...

Let me start by saying that I’ve never been fundamentally opposed to playing three at the back.  I also appreciate the fact that our current squad of players suits the shape because we have an abundance of centre halves and a strike partnership which is possibly the envy of the league so in that sense it seems to tick all the right boxes. So why am I so concerned? 
 
Well my main observation of this formation is that it seems to be more suitable to a counter attacking style.  We all know that Brendan Rodgers wants the team to play with an attacking mentality and to press the ball.  To make that style effective you need to win the ball back quickly but that’s hard to do in this shape because the opposition always has an ‘out ball’ to either full back.  We find that rather than being able to aggressively press the ball as Rodgers demands, instead we are chasing the ball and there is a fundamental difference between the two.  
 
When a team is pressing effectively, it almost appears as if they are ‘hunting in packs’ to get the ball back.  That just isn’t happening with this formation because of the ease in which the opposition can move the ball due to the space on the sides.  When your opponent manages to keep the ball and move it from side to side, the natural reaction is to drop deeper to cover the space.  This only exacerbates the problem because when you do manage to win the ball back you are starting from a deep position and have already been set in your defensive shape for a certain amount of time.  That makes the transition from defence into attack harder and you find that the ball is given away easier than would normally be the case.
 
I’m sure that the players would learn to adapt and improve the more games they played in this shape but there is no way of preventing teams from having that ‘out ball’ and I also don’t think that we have the luxury of time.  Sure, we’ve had a good start to the season but we have the fixture computer to thank for that to a degree and our games are about to get tougher.
 
In the modern game the best teams play with inverted wide players who are designed to receive the ball and cut inside, opening up space for an over-lapping full back.  If you only have one player down the side then that becomes hard to control and again you find yourself chasing the ball and dropping deeper.
 
With the 4-3-3 shape (or whichever variation you wish you allude to) there is more of a man-to-man make up which promotes fierce pressing and allows you to win the ball back higher up the pitch.
 

It’s obviously not as simple as that because there are all kinds of variables involved during a football match but my eyes continue to tell me that there’s a reason why not many teams set their team to play up the way we currently are.

 

Ian Brown

 


 

I’d stick with it in principle, but we need to work on two key issues which continue to cost us goals. I’m a patient man but there are several things concerning me that this system doesn’t cover up our weaknesses quite as much as I first hoped.

 

Firstly, we keep conceding goals from set pieces. It keeps kicking us in the balls and off the top of my head I can think of four goals, two costing us points (Newcastle away, Southampton at home) and one (United) knocking us out of the Carling Cup. It is a severe impediment to the progress we’re making, because further up the pitch we seem to have developed far more of a ruthless streak but keep conceding soft, needless goals from free kicks.

 

The second goal at Newcastle was particularly hard to stomach – firstly because it was scored by a no-mark substitute who we’ll no doubt never hear of again and secondly because it was so avoidable. It was just a percentage lump into the box that we totally failed to deal with – a typical Liverpool goal to donate to opposition in need.

 

With three centre halves on the pitch we simply shouldn’t be giving goals like that away – but we are, continue to do so and it continues to absolutely kill us.

 

Secondly, we need to smarten up in midfield. Cabaye’s goal on Saturday was another example of the midfield surrendering too much room. Someone has to close him down before he shoots. If midfield can’t, one of the centre halves has to push up slightly and stop him getting the shot away. Midfield for me is a bigger issue than the three at the back because I still think it’s too easy for teams to get through us at the moment.

 

Ultimately the system is still in its infancy and we need to be patient. We’re scoring plenty of goals and we look reasonably solid until someone gets a corner or a free kick. That’s the biggest issue. We definitely need work in midfield but that has been the case for 18 months. That, for me, requires work in the transfer market but we have to make do with what we have for now.

 

It would be foolish to rip it up and start again. Is it the long term solution? I don’t know. But we’re scoring plenty of goals with it – we just need to wise up and I’m sure it will be a successful long term switch.

 

Dan Thomas

 


 

I've pretty much always hated three at the back. To me, it was a "paper over the cracks" formation that tried to address defensive weaknesses in a cack-handed way and ultimately impeded attacking football because it was frequently as unresponsive to opposing formations as a staid old 442.

 

However, as I wrote in the last edition of the fanzine, this 3-4-1-2 has really captured my imagination. It quite clearly suits our current squad brilliantly as we have: an abundance of centre halves; two players in Johnson and Enrique who have the ability and stamina to play up and down their entire flank for the full 90 minutes; the best striking partnership in the country; and a young No. 10 with the potential to be as good as anyone in the league.

 

Furthermore, the way Rodgers wants to play with this system encourages fluidity all over the pitch as centre halves step up, across or forward to fill gaps, centre mids compress the play further forward and full backs pull opposing defences wide to create space in the middle within which Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho can create mayhem.

 

So then why the antipathy from so many Reds? For me, I think we've become too jittery as fans; too "now, now, now". No doubt this system has had some teething problems, not least in central midfield where gaps have appeared defensively and also behind the front two where, in Moses, we've been using a player without the skills or nous to unlock opposing defences from tight spaces (hardly alone there, is he?). However, wasn't it always going to be wobbly to start with?

 

At the time of writing, this system is four - yes, four! - matches old and yet the horses are well and truly scared. Let's remember that we remain a hugely transitional team which underwent further major squad surgery in the summer. We also still have a couple of obvious gaps to plug in the first eleven and retain a bench sorely lacking in game-changing players, so let's not attribute all our relative ills to a nascent idea that has had little or no chance to bear fruit.

 

The reaction of many fans to mere moments of disappointment within matches, never mind disappointing results (of which there have been few in the context of where we ended last season and where we find ourselves now) is completely OTT in my view; let's afford our manager a little bit of trust and see where his experiment goes - at least until he can use with his strongest eleven players. The implementation of change in any organisation takes time and football is no different. If it was all so easy, then players wouldn't even bother training; they'd just turn up on match day and play.

 

No, this system has the potential to be a thing of brilliance that bamboozles opposing sides with intelligent, fluid football full of goals and aggression. Can we at least wait until we've given it a couple of matches with our first choice eleven before we claim it's not working? I remain fully open to the possibility that it might fall flat on its face, but in the meantime, I'm going to sit back and admire the courage of a manager who is genuinely trying to innovate, not to mention enjoy the tantalising anticipation of brilliant attacking football. 

 

Paul Natton


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It's gotta be 442 diamond.

 

Lucas

 

Gerrard-Hendo/Allen

 

Coutinho

 

Would work a treat. We'd reclaim the midfield and still have our 2 biggest goal threats on the pitch

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It's gotta be 442 diamond.

 

Lucas

 

Gerrard-Hendo/Allen

 

Coutinho

 

Would work a treat. We'd reclaim the midfield and still have our 2 biggest  only goal threats on the pitch

 

Agreed.

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The knock on the midfield diamond is / was always that you play too narrow and you're susceptible to attacks down the flanks. However, I feel that the way our full backs (well, Johnno and Enrique certainly) position themselves that that wouldn't be an issue because they'd provide that width.

 

Tbh though, I would prefer a flatter midfield 3 (with Coutinho being the 4th man, centrally, in the hole behind the front 2), because that system would offer a little bit more protection for the defence; something which has been sorely lacking this season regardless of which formation we've played. We would also still have the width from the full backs, and from the midfield (to a lesser degree).

 

Hope I've explained that ok ?

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I'm not sure we should change away from three at the back. I'm not a BR fan but will give the man credit for what he has achieved this season using three at the back. I don't think we are comfortable with it yet throughout the team but we will get better if we persevere. I would like to see more of Agger in that formation as he has the skill to drive out of the back three with the ball at his feet. Something that would give an added unpredictable dimension to our play.Be nice to see how we play it with our best eleven on the pitch.

 

Last week's performance is starting to fade now so isn't quite as painful but I wonder how big an issue it was for the team mentally to lose Johnson so close to kick off. We must have been preparing for the game all week with him in a key role The biggest threat that three at the back poses is the one that the wing backs give.It should stop oppositiion full backs from being too adventurous and give their wide midfielders something to think about. With Flanagan and Cissokho in the starting line up it must have been a boost for Arsenal and an equal knock for some of our players.

 

So for me three at the back and lets get better at it.

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Hopefully the same team with Enrique for Cissokho.  Take the game to them.

 

I'd certainly make the same change at left back, but I'd also bring Sakho in for Agger.

 

Although Agger was excellent against Fulham and did nothing deserving of demotion to the bench, the same can also be said of Sakho.

 

The main reason behind my switch though would be Lukaku, exactly the type of centre forward who has prospered, out muscled and bullied Skrtel and Agger. Try that shit on with Sakho and you'll be flat on your back seeing stars Romelu lad..

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Not really, it will be the same as against Fulham.

 

Should be, bar Enrique for Cissokho.  Gerrard normally puts a performance in against Everton and Henderson and Coutinho were both really good on and off the ball to improve the midfield balance.  Looking forward to the rest of the season if we can keep that up.

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I'd certainly make the same change at left back, but I'd also bring Sakho in for Agger.

 

Although Agger was excellent against Fulham and did nothing deserving of demotion to the bench, the same can also be said of Sakho.

 

The main reason behind my switch though would be Lukaku, exactly the type of centre forward who has prospered, out muscled and bullied Skrtel and Agger. Try that shit on with Sakho and you'll be flat on your back seeing stars Romelu lad..

I'd go with Agger following the clean sheet. I think him and Skrtel have enough between them to handle Lukaku. Agger is currently a better player than Sakho, for me.

 

It would be triple sly to drop Agger after our first clean sheet for ages although i hear what you're saying about Lukaku. I still worry that Sakho has a fuck up per game in him, though, and wouldn't want to risk it in the derby.

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I'd go with Agger following the clean sheet. I think him and Skrtel have enough between them to handle Lukaku. Agger is currently a better player than Sakho, for me.

 

It would be triple sly to drop Agger after our first clean sheet for ages although i hear what you're saying about Lukaku. I still worry that Sakho has a fuck up per game in him, though, and wouldn't want to risk it in the derby.

 

I believe Sakho is our only centre back without an opta "error" this season.  Obviously the "error" stat is a load of bollocks.  But there you go.

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