Toddler

Spot on Paddy lad. If I could rep you I would. I seem to spend half my life at work telling dumb brums all of the above. If there was another channel to watch the game on I wouldn't even look at a Sky broadcast. I'm certainly proud to say I've never subscribed and never will. We have a TV in the 'break out area' at work which usually has the news channel on. Every time I pass it I have to change from Sky to BBC. Sky, Rupert Murdoch, News International and Talkshite all need shutting down.

A very valid point that, and one that I hadn't thought through if I'm honest. The owners do seem to be making measured decisions and that would explain the careful handling they have given to things today. Sacking a manager is a big deal and the decision should never be made in response to a defeat, no matter how dire. It should be carefully considered with a sound rationale behind it. I've come to the decision myself that he needs to go now on commercial grounds, reputational grounds, footballing grounds, you name it. I think they do want to make the right appointment and that is likely to be in the summer but I had thought that a caretaker manager was now a wise decision. The idea that that could complicate their long term plans is again a valid point which needs to be carefully examined before they do make that decision. I just hope we have that decision tomorrow so that we know where we stand before Sunday's game.

Its ten to ten! Don't be ridiculous!

Gerrard thinks, "Here we go, Istanbul all over again...I'll be a legend, again!..Hang on, another 5 months of Woy? Fuck it... that twat in row Z reminds me of Diouf!"

Cue Smicer and Alonso!

So today is the first day of business in the transfer window. According to the BBC transfer gossip pages alone (and if you went through every source the volume would be incredible) we are linked to 52 incoming transferees since 1st December. We've made one signing so far which was a kid no one had mentioned. We are apparently due to loose Hodgson, Torres, Agger, Johnson, Babel, Lucas, Cole, Reina, Jovanovic and Poulson. Its going to be a very busy month if they're all right!

Another stat for the board to consider: Average attendance this season is down about 2000 on Rafa's height in 05/06. Lets say an average ticket price is £35 for a premier game (accounting for different prices in different stands and concessions being half price). That adds up to £70K per game. Over a season that equates to £1.3 Million. That's before cup games, difference between Champions League income and Europa income, difference between Europa income and no European income at all, TV fees and merchandising. How much does it cost to break Roy's contract I wonder?

Well, all was going well over the Christmas period. We didn't drop a single point until last night! We didn't collect any either, mind. Thanks to the weather. I vowed to retire to my bed like old women did in Dickensian times, until we started winning again, but eventually my hangover wore off and I thought it best to rationalise what last night's result means for our future instead. That now knocks our home form down to 63%. Away form went down to 19% after the Barcodes. So total form is on 41%. My rose tinted post that started this thread suggested all could be well if we upped both away and home forms slightly. We've got worse. 41% works out at 47 points at the end of the season. Over the last 10 seasons that averages a finish in 12th place. Our lowest ever Premier finish was 8th in 1994. In actual fact The Scum are on track for their 19th title on only 80 points. Last time a team won it on 80 points, 47 points equated to a 14th place finish, presumably because there was less of a split from the pack, much like this season. So, we are now on for a 14th place finish. Our worst ever in the Premier League/Premiership. I haven't gone back any further to find out when we ever finished below that in the old first division. If you do want to find a positive spin, then you could match us against the rest after 18 games (its between 17 and 20 now across the league because of the weather) and show that comparatively we would be 10th and 9 points off 4th place. Maybe you could argue that a Europa finish is still realistic. But, as much as I want to be loyal, I can't stand to see us going down the tubes like this and my rose tinted specs have been binned. Roy, I'm afraid you've f**ked it up!

[quote"'My advice to you is to start drinking heavily." Perhaps the best advice for us all. I did that last night after the game. It is only now that I have been able to face doing anything. I was going to stay in bed until we win again, but the kids have made their own breakfast, dinner, mopped the kitchen floor and entertained themselves all day and now I'm starting to feel guilty. So I might keep the booze at a manageable level until, er tomorrow.

Managed to resolve it myself without losing anything from my library by 'repairing' the download and reinstalling a new version of Quicktime.

I've just clicked on my iTunes icon to play around with my playlists and was asked if I wanted to download a newer version. This I did; it asked to restart, which I did, and now when I click on the icon it tells me some files are missing and I need to reinstall iTunes. Now I recall doing this last time I managed to destroy my hard drive. In reinstalling iTunes I lost all my playlists and all my tracks that hadn't been purchased from iTunes (i.e. most of them) I don't want to go through all that again! Is there a way around this? I presume there is some glitch in this version that people must have come across before? Or can I get my computer back to the state it was in half an hour ago, i.e to undo the download that's corrupted it? Please help!

Thanks for clarifying the last point - this isn't a defend Roy thread. It's a see if there is any light at the end of the tunnel thread. In answer to your first question though, basically, no that's not what I'm saying. We need to win most our away games from now on to get back up to a 40% average over the season 'cos our away form has been so shite up til now. I'm not doing the sums again cos it hurt my head first time round, but it's all up there in the first thread. It'll still be a big ask, but it can be done, whilst still losing the odd game along the way. Then again, that might just be an oncoming train I can see.

No, no, no. Its so much more.....it's a lot more.....it's about the.......I think you're missing the........Er, actually..........................yeah.

Thankyou. I managed to get a nursery education before the Coalition sold the world.

This email is cathartic for me, so bear with me. I had intended to post it on Sunday but the site went down. It's still timely though, until the next game anyway! I've held a board meeting with myself today as I promised I would after the Newcastle game. This arrangement was made after the defeat at Stoke, and not as a reaction to Saturday's defeat per se. I said in the aftermath of the Stoke game that we shouldn't make rash decisions when we're down about a poor result, and hence I set the Newcastle game as a reasonable time to judge where we are; bearing in mind that if things were not good enough then we would have a chance to bring in a new manager in time to make good use of the transfer window, if necessary. So in my desparation to make some sense of this mess I've crunched some statistics so that you can all be convinced of my insanity. The perception has been that we have improved recently and moved gradually back up the table (prior to our knockback Saturday). To an extent that is true: after 5 games we were 16th, after 10 games we were 12th, 15 games and we were 10th, even after yesterday, after 17 games we are 9th. So yes there has been a gradual improvement. Surely therefore if you project that trend forwards we end up fourth before the end of the season? Wrong. After 5 games we were 3 points off 4th spot. After 10 games we were 5 points away. After 15 games we were 7 points off. Now after 17 games we are 9 points of 4th place. So in respect of that specific target, we're actually going backwards. So where is it all going wrong? I think everyone is well aware that this is as a result of our away form. Over the last 17 games we have gathered 70% of available points at home, but only 19% of those available away. This gives us an average of 43% in total, both home and away. If you look across the weeks, the overal total fluctuates around 45% (i.e its down today, but if we win against Fulham it will go up again, drop points against Blackpool and its back down again). So 45% is our level of performance at the moment and has been over recent weeks. If you project that forward over the whole of the season, this equates to 52 points in May. What are 52 points worth? Last year that would have got you 9th place. On a good season it could get you an 8th place finish, and on others, 10th. Over the last 10 years of the Premier League, the average position is 9th. That's 2 places below Rafa's worst finish, which got him the sack. So clearly this can't go on. So how many points are required to finish 4th? Last year it was 68 (Spurs actually got 70, but 5th place was only 67). In 2003-4 you could have finished 4th on 57 points. So over the last 10 seasons the average for 4th spot is 68 points. That's 60% of available points over the season. So for us to finish 4th we need to aim for a 60% return, and I remind you that as of now we are only on a 43% return. So how realistic is that? If we maintain our home record at 70%, we need to get our overall away form upto 50% from the current 19%. That means we need to get 24 points from the 10 remaining away games. We can only afford to drop 6 more points away. If you think Hodgson can deliver this, then we could be ok! What about if we improve our home form slightly (or rather continue with the more recent form) and get the season long average upto 75%? That would mean the away form only needs to rise to 45%. That would mean we could afford to drop another 7 points at home (one defeat and two draws) and upto 9 points away from home (three more defeats). If we bumped our home form up so that we got an 80% average, we only need to raise away form to 40%. That equates to 4 more points dropped at home (one defeat, or two draws) and upto 15 points dropped away (5 defeats, or 3 defeats and 3 draws). I'd suggest that one of the last two options could be within the manager's capability; if you accept that the home form recently has been good, with Torres and Cole yet to become sharp again, Agger, Carragher and Gerrard yet to return from injury, and possibly a decent signing or two in January. And if you also accept that the last two away games have been more attacking in principle, but lack the proper execution, and that that execution can be improved upon. The Blackpool game on Boxing Day is therefore the next real milestone. If you want to take a more short term approach with a view to potentially rushing through a decision at the beginning of January if things do need a change, then you can take a look at the raft of games that come in quick succession over Christmas and New Year. There are 5 fixtures now between next weekend and the first week of January. Some of these fixtures pit competing teams against each other. If we maintain a strong home form and can get 4 points from 6 away (a sharp improvement in itself) then we could pull in 13 points. Over the same period you could realistically predict City only getting 8, Chelsea getting 11, Bolton only 7, Spurs only 11, Sunderland 7 and Newcastle 7. That would then move us up to 6th and we would be 7 points of 4th spot again. A move in the right direction. With an unbeaten run in the Europa league behind him, a clear will to develop young players from within, an improvement in home form over recent weeks and a more positive playing style away from home (yet still poorly executed), plus a reluctance to become a club that turns over managers on a regular basis, the Board (i.e me) has therefore decided to give Hodgson a vote of confidence and to review performance again after the Blackburn game in January. Now I will do something more constructive with my time - but I do feel slightly better. (This is were you now all neg me and tell me to get a life....)

Sad as I am, I've decided to start keeping a record from the 1st December of everyone we're linked with according to the BBC football gossip daily summary. I'm guessing we'll be linked with about 237 different players and we'll sign 2. (one will of course be Queresma)

As I think the second poster on this thread said, the micro-analysing is best left to the tabloid hacks. I have to admit to starting to believe the hype when I was at the last home game against the Hammers. Torres does look sulky if you pick out the odd moment, and generally when you watch him on the tele that's what you get. But rather than take someone else's word for it I decided to focus on him for a period, regardless of whether he was on the ball or not. It changed my opinion pretty quickly. What you don't see on the tele is his movement off the ball, his reading of the game. More often than not he doesn't get the final ball or the play gets broken down and that's where the cameras are focused. But 10 minutes of solely watching Nando convinces you that he's as committed to his football as he's ever been. That said, if he'd taken his chances yesterday and Maxi had taken his, we'd be above Spurs now - twats, the pair of them!

I think you mispelt that?

You can't blame Rafa for ever, you just end up sounding like a Tory minister slashing public sector jobs! Anyway, after 40 years as a supporter I can't remember being in the relegation zone at a time in the season when the early stutters have had time to stabilize. Although I'll accept that the human brain has a habit of blanking out traumatic experiences, and perhaps someone will now remind when indeed this has happened before, and then I'll stand corrected. But even though we are in the relegation zone and got knocked out of the League Cup at home by a team 3 divisions below, we are actually top of our Europa Group, got the FA Cup to look forward to and are only 5 points off a Champions League position! Worse things happen at sea, and to get another Frank Turner quote in, in the spirit of one of the themes above: "I can't remember details, but there were English boys with banjos!"

I clicked on the link for this on the BBC site this morning as it had it down as a Mirror article. When the hyperlink connected it took me to the S*n instead! I quickly clicked 'back' and checked no one had seen me. I still feel dirty though. If its linked to that rag, it's meaningless.

..and Bradford. One of the elements of tragedy common to both Hillsborough and Bradford is that the lessons from Ibrox were never learnt, or at least never implemented. The inquiry after Ibrox made a raft of recommendations around safety at sporting stadia including clearing debris under stands (Bradford) and the flow rate through turnstiles (Hillsborough). I can't be back in Liverpool on the 10th but my thoughts will be with you all.

He really is a grade A cock. The second funniest thing I heard was Pat Nevin on 5 live last night trying to defend his comments...another cock! Ha!

...have any of you received your tickets yet? I was told I might get a letter with the seat numbers or I might get an email. I haven't had either yet. Should I start worrying that they've sent it to the wrong email address? How close to the Baggies and Arsenal games did they come? - I didn't have tickets for those. Ta.

If you do want any constructive advice - I go to the Moseley Arms on Renshaw Street, B12. You can park on the street outside free of charge, and without the risk of a ticket. Its a short walk to the ground and an easy get away in the car afterwards. Its usually full of Blues fans before the game, but a decent family pub without the risk of agro. Those nearer the ground are not friendly to away fans.

Presumably Redknapp will sign van der vaart some time this evening and swear blind the fax was sent before six - not that he's corrupt or anything!