Troubadour

Who's the best lord? Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Flies or Lord of the Dance? This thread has reminded me to watch more Partridge. Well done.

Chamakh and Jovanovic. Although everyone seems to have written both off, on the grounds that the former doesn't score enough goals, apparently, and the other one is suspected of being in Arkan's notorious Delije terror brigades during the Bosnian war. Not really on that last bit, though. Regardless, you can tell he's noticed that young Nando may miss a few games next season, too, unless he's going to bow to the demands of TLW and field a bold 3-3-4 formation next season.

A lot of it is to do with the fact that he's not had a break since the summer of 2007, when he first joined. The Euros, then the Confederations Cup and the World Cup coming up - get used to him not being fully fit. He needs two or three months off football, basically, to allow everything to heal. As much as Ngog's improved a lot this year and Kuyt's a trier, we'd cope a lot better if we had a proper replacement. Maybe that's why Rafa's trying to sign two strikers for the summer.

Tell you what, though, that side the Scots had in 78 was amazing. You can see why they were so optimistic. Souness in the midfield, Dalglish up front with Joe Jordan, John Robertson on the wing, Archie Gemmill, a few players from United, Asa Hartford. They were a good side. Not World Cup winning good, but probably the best generation the country's ever produced. "We're representing Britain and we've got to do or die, and England cannae do it cos they didnae qualify" This is sheer musical genius. Beethoven would have been proud of that.

Tom, thanks for the neg. By Judas, I meant Michael Owen, not Alonso. Just wanted to clarify.

You're right, Rafa did do well to replace two such key players (we miss Arbeloa almost as much as we miss Alonso) with two internationals, rather than getting a washed-up Judas shithouse of a player and an essentially unproven, if gifted, right winger. The Mancs are challenging out of habit, and because nobody seems to have picked up on Benitez's message in his last three games against them, that if you press them high and target Vidic's pace on the turn, they're actually quite average. They have also lost five games already this season. They're challenging because everyone else is inconsistent. If this was a season like the last 10 or so, Chelsea would be out of sight and United nowhere. It's unheard of in the PL era for a team to lose five by January and be in with a shout of the title. As for us? We're just quite shit. Not sure why we've gone from being one of the best teams in Europe to the 7th best team in the league - could be players, could be manager, probably a mix of both - but I'd get used to it, because Rafa or no Rafa, it's not going to change for a while, not when we don't have any money, and when we are faced with a choice between keeping a manager who's not getting results and replacing him and starting the long, painful process of rebuilding again.

Surely the hope has to be that having Kenny on the inside means there is someone who we can all agree is working for the good of the club? The frustration is understandable - it would have been perfect if it had been Kenny coming out against the owners - but I find it hard to believe that Kenny would sell the club down the river if he could help it. I guess time will tell on that one. As for Stanley, yep, credit where it's due, he's done a lot more than pretty much anyone I can think of in terms of ex-players, and most of it off his own bat. That's different, though, from arranging an official link type thing with him. Now if SoS were to start feeding him information for him to use, that would be a very different matter.

Absolutely. But it is always the time to get precious on how they do the talking. You can't ignore the readership/audience Collymore has, but that just makes it more imperative that, if SoS are going to dance with the dogger, they know he's not just broadly onside, he is spot on with the message. The other question that has to be posed is how seriously Collymore is taken. Kenny says something, for example, and it gets picked up. Collymore says something controversial on TalkSport? Not so much.

He's about 900, but still just goes and goes. Impressive how he's turned himself into a midfielder as he's got older. I'd have him at Liverpool in a heartbeat, even now.

Brilliant. As is Wesley Sneijder. And Maicon. And Milito's not afraid of a shot, is he? Inter look pretty quick, much more dynamic than they did last year or under Mancini.

Gary Cahill is the best defender outside us, Chelsea, the Mancs, Arsenal and Spurs. He'd make a belting long-term replacement for Carra. Left-back wise, Luis Filipe at Deportivo. Cissokho's a good shout, too, but bear in mind he cost Lyon £15 million or something absurd. And Milan didn't sign him because of some dental problem. Call me crazy, but I like Liverpool players to have a good set of teeth. Insua's a good prospect, but he's suffered because he's played far, far too much this season. Don't write him off yet. The big problem he'll have is his height, which isn't something he can work on. I'd still rather we had him than seeing him at another club and listening to everyone say how we should be trying to sign him, which they would be doing. Be a shame if they didn't renew Aurelio, though I suppose, given his injury record, they're understandably reluctant to give him the long-term deal he's meant to want. EDIT: Luis Filipe broke his leg last night, or something. Sources in Spain have confirmed he's still better defensively than Insua.

Milan, there's a bear in your pool. You want to get that looked at.

Cracking player, Canales. Think Real will end up getting him on a free, but they've apparently offered him 10m euros or something ludicrous as a signing-on fee. Have a feeling we would have been interested if that hadn't been the start of the bidding...

Said that ages ago - possibly when he might have thought it was a possibility - and it got rehashed here yesterday, at which point the Spanish pick it up and print it there today. Which means Sky will probably pick it up again tomorrow. And round and round and round we go.

Lennon's out, but yes, there's no way Kyrgiakos should start unless Agger's not fit. Even then, I'd go for Carra and Skrtel and put Degen at right back.

I'm coming in from the 62 and the Rocket, so if anyone needs picking up, let me know...

No need. Not a problem. Give me an address and I'll be all over it like some sort of unpleasant rash.

I don't want to be a twat or anything, but Partridge drove to Dundee in his bare feet. Driving to Aberdeen would be ridiculous. Especially at this time of year.

The comment on Maxi in the Guardian article is shithousery of the highest order. He's played for 12 fucking minutes!

The backs to the pitch thing is something the Italians and Spaniards do when they're not happy with the way their teams are playing. It's highly visible. It's also very rare in this country - I've never seen it before here - so it would get a lot of publicity. Accompany the Kop not watching the game with chants and banners and bam, you have yourself a televised protest. The problem the don't buy tickets/merchandise policy, while noble, is that even if you fall, there will always be someone else to step forward and pick up your replica shirt, as Che Guevara might have said. It's simply not realistic to try to force them out by economic means - it would need everyone to stop going, and such is the miseducation that that won't happen. All that can be done is to raise awareness of the issue, and the way to do that is through protests. One that didn't make people feel they'd wasted their money would have a better chance of success. And, just as a side note, it's a shame people can't see the big picture when it comes to the Mancs. Both clubs would stand a much better chance of survival if the fans could work together to raise awareness. Anyone wishing financial disaster on United presumably also chanted Ridsdale at the Leeds fans. Besides, what's the point of winning things if you don't also get to rub your rivals' noses in it? As much as I loathe seeing United score, let alone win, I wouldn't want them to go out of existence. Beating them makes everything sweeter. They serve a purpose.

1. Liverpool lad 2. Lucky Pierre 3. Badly Drawn Dave 4. Ste (ab) 5. The Tott 6. Adam?? 7. Paul 8. Rory, unless others of higher priority want to play

Anfield Road » Is the Liverpool Way dead? And for those of you who are hard of clicking... Lack of leadership killing Liverpool By Ned Doig. “Blow me, ****face. Go to hell. I’m sick of you,” was the rather blunt message sent from now ex-Liverpool board member Tom Hicks jnr to a fan earlier this week, but given the absolute chaos that has embroiled the club, it could quite easily have been sent from the States to Melwood and back again at various points over the last 2 years. But as the last realistic chance of domestic silverware disappeared over the horizon, the rather colourful missive may as well have been directed at the team and its manager for the very first time from the real powerbrokers at the club, the fans, given the reaction to the loss to first division strugglers Reading. As shameful as the booing was that greeted the final whistle, behaviour that would usually be sneered at by the normally ultra-loyal Kopites, it illustrated the growing discontent at the sorry state of affairs following another listless, gutless, insipid, pedestrian display from the men in red. Despite how it may have appeared to the casual observer, what happened at full time on Wednesday night was not a knee jerk reaction to a result in isolation. For much of the season, a growing tension has been bubbling under the surface. Against Reading, it finally spilled over from a group of fans whose relationship with a club is not just fractured, but extremely close to breaking point. Poor performances, although frustrating, are a fact of life, but to give up without so much as a fight is unforgivable. Injuries to key players obviously haven’t helped, but even when fit, none of Carragher, Torres, Gerrard or Mascherano have played anywhere near their potential or with any consistency. Only the goalkeeper, Reina, can take any real pride in his performances over the last 5 months. Factor in the loss of the calming, intelligent influence of Alonso, then replacing him with a player who is still yet to get anywhere near match fit, not to mention the huge hole left by Sami Hyypia, and you have a recipe for disaster. But what has been the most disturbing and damaging aspect of the season so far is the clear lack of leadership that is running through the club from top to bottom, and which threatens to tear the club apart. We have a captain who has played at times this season like he has lost interest, and at others like a petulant teenager. A manager who has spent so much of his time politicking and fighting fires with his higher uppers that he has seemingly taken his eye off the ball and as a result now has a squad absolutely shorn of confidence, tactically impotent, a shadow of the side that finished so close to the title last year. This inevitably leads to the boardroom, where we have Christian Purslow, the bi-lingual, silver-tongued managing director who stomps around in a manner that would make Peter Ridsdale blush. A man who, when not spinning tales to the local paper, contradicting himself on transfer budgets or jumping in front of television cameras, spends his time in the inner sanctum of the dressing room or shadowing his manager at press conferences carefully observing his every move. You have to wonder how he manages to dedicate any time to actually running the club. One can only presume he works every hour God sends, Blackberry permanently charged. Then you have the two at the very top of the tree, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, who get on so well that they can just about stomach each other’s company long enough for the paparazzi to get their quota in. Not to mention the debt, false promises, stadium within 60 days, fake sheikhs, interest rates and Jurgen Klinsmann. Between them they’ve managed to engender an acute culture of paranoia right throughout the club, is it any wonder most of the time is spent pointing the finger, shifting the blame and making excuses? There is a decent team hiding somewhere within the confines of Melwood, as has been proven over the course of last season, and the odd occasion this time around, and in Benitez a world class manager. Albeit one who’s got a bit of a God complex, who is easily distracted when the mood takes him and has a penchant for holding a grudge. He is also certainly a winner and has stuck around when maybe it would have been easier to walk away on occasion and deserves more patience to turn it around than he is currently getting from some quarters, especially given the volatile conditions he and his squad are expected to function in. Regardless of Rafa’s position, great players and managers have come and gone, and of Shankly’s Holy Trinity, there is only one constant, the supporters, with whom there is a bond shared like no other club in the land. For them to be turning on each other, as has been happening, has much more to do with the instability off the pitch as it does matters on it. Of course, with a club the size of Liverpool, they could lose the supporters and replace them with customers. Maybe that is the strategy. But if they continue to run Liverpool FC into the ground in the in which they are doing, further alienating the supporters of the most successful club in the land, they may as well do what they are so fond of in the US and move their franchise to the Lake District, because the club and everything it stands for would be dead. And at a time when there are a few signs that the Premier League, as a product, maybe reaching saturation point, those that run the club might want to think a little more carefully about how they go about their business before they lose the one constant of the Holy Trinity that the club was built upon. You’ll Never Walk Alone? Don’t make me laugh.

That's actually quite a good idea. Well done. There's nothing wrong with Rafa knowing he has to perform to keep his job, just as Kuyt, Skrtel etc and the rest of the players do (if you swap job for place) and everyone else in life does. He's done enough to warrant time and, to an extent, to warrant a bad season. But that doesn't mean he has carte blanche to underperform. As regards the young players, it's time to bring a few of them on to the bench. Kelly would be playing now if he was fit, and Pacheco's becoming a regular feature. If Babel goes, I can see Ecclestone getting back on the bench, even if a striker comes in. Never been that impressed with Amoo, but everyone else seems to think he's great. The really good one is Andre Wisdom, but he's a bit young yet. I'd like to see Dalla Valle on the bench, too. That may spell the end, though, for the likes of Spearing as a substitute, which some won't like, at least when Gerrard's back. On the subject of benches, ours looked half-decent for once yesterday, with Riera, Maxi and Aquilani. Throw Gerrard, Torres, Agger, Benayoun and Johnson in and suddenly it looks a bit more positive. Strange the difference one player can make.

If you want an antidote, Xavi's ball for Barca's second against Sevilla just now was indescribably good.

This is a really good idea, if it comes together. Players like Pacheco, Bruna and even some of the younger English lads - Darby, Amoo or Ecclestone - need competitive football at a decent standard. Belgium's probably the same, for the most part, as the lower half of the Championship and the top part of league one - the sort of teams that'd beat us in the FA Cup, say - with a couple of pretty good sides (Standard, Anderlecht etc). It's more technical, though, and it gives them chance to get out of the reserves and sharpen their games. Arsenal and United do it (though I think United have stopped now) and even if it doesn't bring bucketloads of players into our first team, it will give us more chance of selling on young players for decent fees, thus paying for the academy and giving us more money to spend on senior players.