Troubadour

Dangerous business, signing players on the basis of the World Cup. Someone'll suggest we sign Salif Diao next. That said, Isla's a great shout, but I'd say Diego Perez and Annan are probably just on the wrong side of average. If either were under £5m I'd take a risk, though. In general, though, as much as Masche's the best defensive midfielder in the world, if we can get £25-30m for him, you should be able to get a replacement for half of that. If Hodgson's given half of it to spend, of course...

Ireland counts as homegrown because he's come through City's academy, so he's a legitimate consideration. He'll go this summer, too, and if we sold Aquilani, he'd be a decent shout. Quite like Onuoha as well, but he'll end up across the park, it seems. Mark Noble's the standout one for me. Really good Premier League style player, young, and probably reasonably priced (£8-10m?), which with sales isn't out of our range. Collison's good at West Ham, too, and Carlton Cole as a back-up striker. Not seen a lot of Dorrans, but were Fulham not linked with him before Hodgson came here? That may not be a bad shout, and he'd get goals from the midfield. Talk of right-backs is unnecessary - we have two homegrown right backs, both of whom are far better than anything we could buy (Johnson and Kelly) while the only centre back good enough is Cahill, who's the best defender outside the big seven. If we had money, he'd be a belting signing, as would McCarthy at Wigan.

I wouldn't take everything on here as gospel. Pierre's right, I think - if you take the signing on fee, then it probably works out as something like that. That's a little bit disingenuous, though, seeing as nobody does that for other players. Not having a go, just saying.

Yep. I see. It's late. I was distracted by Flight of the Conchords. My bad. I withdraw my criticism and redirect it at Heinze. Maxi's still not on £90,000 a week, mind.

Terence, I believe "k" is the accepted abbreviation of thousand. And, in Maxi's case, it should not be preceded by a 90. He's not on that much. He's on a lot, like, but not that much. And even if it was, then there's far worse players on far more money elsewhere.

To borrow a phrase. This was posted on Anfield Road earlier, and I couldn't see it posted anywhere here, though if it has, I apologise profusely. But it's worth a read. It could maybe have gone in the Moores thread, but it'd only look messy. There's always a risk with these things that people think you're preaching. But it's not written that way, and it shouldn't be taken that way. But given that the manager's future seems clearer than before, it makes a valid point over what's worth getting het up about. Anfield Road » “Go” – Moores joins fans in message to owners David Moores - nothing to apologise for By Andy Heaton and Jim Boardman And so, nineteen years after buying the club, five years after Istanbul, three years after selling the club and two years after speaking out to defend his close friend, David Moores last night, finally, spoke out about the state that the once great Liverpool Football Club now finds itself in. Kind of. Moores and Gillett share a jokeIn an open letter to The Times, the first thing that multi-millionaire former majority shareholder, Chairman and Life President David Moores makes clear is that he isn’t apologising, nor has he ever felt the need to, instead pleading a defence of what can only be described as ignorance and stupidity, stating that he, just like the fans, just like Steve Morgan and just like all the other minor shareholders had all been hoodwinked by Tom Hicks and George Gillett. He, just like the rest of us, was a victim of the American regime, but unlike the rest of us who could no more influence the direction that the club took in 2007 than we could take a seat on the team bus on the way to the match, had the power and more importantly, the responsibility to make the right call or wrong call back in February 2007, and he got it wrong Badly wrong. The self pitying tone continues throughout the best part of another three thousand words, blaming everyone from Rothschilds, to DIC, to Samir Al Ansari and even Roman Abramovic, before finally reaching out with an admission that fans had been demanding from him for two years and then signing off with an appeal to those he allowed in to destroy the club to leave: “I hugely regret selling the club to George Gillett and Tom Hicks. I believe that, at best, they have bitten off much more than they can chew. Giving them that benefit of the doubt – that they started off with grand ideals that they were never realistically going to achieve – I call upon them now to stand back, accept their limitations as joint owners of Liverpool Football Club, acknowledge their role in the club‘s current demise, and stand aside, with dignity, to allow someone else to take up the challenge. Don’t punish the club’s supporters any more – God knows they’ve taken enough. Take an offer, be realistic over the price, make it possible. Let the club go. It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to concede for the greater good.” Parry flanked by Gillett and Hicks, takeover dayWhen he last spoke out two years ago in a Liverpool Echo ‘interview’ with Tony Barrett, his words were little more than a defence of his ex-running mate, and then-CEO, Rick Parry who had been asked – rather firmly – to resign by one of the club’s co-owners, Tom Hicks. As it conspired, Parry was only able to hold out for a further 12 months, before effectively being replaced by Christian Purslow, close friend of the now owner of Wolverhampton Wanderers and former arch nemesis of David Moores, Steve Morgan, a move which saw Moores step down from his post as Life President and resign his place on the board. Since that date Moores has not set foot inside Anfield, not that he would have enjoyed much this past season, the club’s off-field financial difficulties finally having a telling influence on matters on the pitch, as a thread-bare, and in some places, poor quality squad trading 2nd for 7th in the worst season for a decade. So what prompted him to speak out this time? As we know, it wasn’t to apologise or admit any culpability, that, clearly, was everyone else’s fault. Although would it not have been a sign of strength, rather than weakness, to concede that he’d done a lot wrong by sitting quietly in the background for so long? So what did prompt him? “Above all I’m writing to you because I care deeply about the club, the team and the fans.” That and the harm that “hearsay, mistruth, and malicious gossip” was having on his family, a feeling the manager he left behind could surely identify with. Steven Gerrard holds 'big ears' in the presence of royalty, the manager and David MooresAnd on the week of the 5th anniversary of the club’s historic 5th European Cup win and arguably the club’s greatest ever night, a night he feels a repeat of is now “light years away”, he felt the time was finally right to speak out publicly. What Hicks and Gillett will make of the letter to The Times is anyone’s guess, as is why he never sent them a direct correspondence, as opposed to “hoping against hope” that they’d see at least “some portion” of it. Only at Liverpool, where the ex-chairman admits to having never used a computer and an ex-CEO used to hand write emails for his secretary to forward on, could you imagine that no-one kept a record of addresses and phone numbers of the two people to whom they “sold the family silver”. Of course, the above is both highly implausible, and unlikely, yet in a way, tragically, comically, believable. But let’s strip away the cynicism and assume that Mr Moores’ actions were that of a man who acted in way that he thought would have maximum impact, to galvanise and throw weight behind a support that is finally waking up in number to the almost clinical disassembly of what was only a few years ago one of the most unique, envied and respected clubs in Europe. Let’s believe that it’s not because he doesn’t care that’s it’s taken him two years to speak out, or to lash out at some enemies both old and relatively new. Whatever your thoughts about David Moores, there are two things that are undeniable, that he is a Liverpool fan, and he is deeply hurt by what has become of the Club he used to own. Maybe it’s taken two years because he’s felt powerless to intervene, helpless as he’s been forced to witness the car-crash of the Americans’ ownership develop. Moores said Gillett vouched for HicksPerhaps it’s taken two years because he’s as upset as any of us, arguably much more, destroyed with the knowledge that to the majority of Liverpool fans, he’ll forever be thought of as the man who sold us down the river to the Americans for a few extra million, despite the accepted knowledge that the club was actually sold on the cheap. Maybe he did make the decision in what he thought were in the best interests of the club, that he had the right people coming in to take the club from him, is it really beyond the realms of believability? Whereas the current owners are not holding out for the right people, they aren’t even pretending to. The current owners are holding out for their right price. And that price is way higher than what the club is really worth. Moores stated in his letter that the current owners, “in holding on and holding out, risk damaging a sporting institution of global renown”. But it’s already damaged, and in some areas increasingly beyond repair. It’s not just the money either, it’s the way the club is being run; Rick Parry’s last 12 months saw him completely at odds with Tom Hicks and he only ever got on with Gillett because it was to George’s own personal benefit in his battle for control with Hicks. Christian Purslow, temp MD, with Hicks and GillettWhen Parry finally left, a new man came in, supposedly on a temporary basis, who has only succeeded in creating even more divisions within the club, but unlike the problems caused by his predecessors which were confined mainly to the boardroom and the manager’s office, we are now seeing the desire for power and control affecting matters on the pitch. Add to that the current situation where the club is effectively in limbo, with the current owners unwilling to put any money into a business they are looking to sell, a split fan-base, and a manager who doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going, we are only going to be looking in one direction, and that’s down. David Moores lived the dream, he owned the club, and under his stewardship saw it achieve the unthinkable, and no matter what happens no one can take that night away from him, or us. But that dream has turned into a nightmare for all of us, a nightmare that he must take some of the blame for; he made a mistake, and a mistake he has to do all he can to put right. David Moores may not be able to right all the wrongs or ever completely absolve himself from the consequences of his actions in 2007, but he has a voice, a voice louder than arguably any other outside the club, and has finally shown a willingness to speak out. It’s easy to castigate, to dismiss, to criticise, but to what end, what will it ultimately achieve? But he’s not the only one who that applies to. All fans need to think the same way. What can we do? How can we help? Perhaps the first way is to do all we can to stop the infighting. One phrase that is overused these days to the point of it no longer meaning what it did is “the Liverpool Way”. It can now mean any manner of things; increasingly though, it is used to belittle those with a different opinion. “My Liverpool Way is better than your Liverpool Way.” Now more than ever, we need to reclaim the true meaning of “the Liverpool Way”. But what IS that exactly? “One of the principles that unites us as Liverpudlians, gives us pride and informs our sense of identity is the philosophy [that] on the pitch evolved from Shankly’s fearless attacking football into a simple but wonderful game of pass and move, founded on hard work and a team spirit that relied upon everybody fighting for each other. Off the pitch things were not so different. We would put our faith in the manager and support him to the fullest extent we were able.” Whether it was written by his own hand or the work of a “ghost” it’s pretty impressive and not far from what you would imagine those people who made our club great had in mind when the phrase was first coined. The above is not an appeal for anyone who has a negative opinion on the manager to blindly support him, or that want a change that they’re wrong to do so, it’s a call for us all to stop fighting with each other about it. Whilst we are busy falling out with each other, fighting over minor, inconsequential details and arguing over the latest bit of pub gossip, we are caught looking the other way as the owners and their assistants just take the club nearer to ruin. Hicks and GillettWhen the owners were fighting, we were winning. Now they’ve – at least in public – stopped the fighting, leaving that to us instead. And they’re winning. Winning handsomely. As fans we will never, ever, agree on everything. That’s part of the attraction of being a fan of any football side. But at Liverpool we’ve always known when the time is right to be together, to put petty differences aside, to show unity and solidarity, to win. If we’re going to be critical, let’s be constructive. David Moores may be different to 99% of us in a countless number of ways – but he is still a Liverpool supporter, he is one of us, he might have made the biggest mistake of his life, but he did it thinking he was putting the club first. Hicks and Gillett could have been adopted by us, adopted as two of our own. The opportunity was there for them and if they’d taken that opportunity maybe they’d have been afforded the understanding we always have for our own. They passed up the opportunity. David Moores has now, gingerly, stepped back amongst us and seems ready to fight with us, and despite whatever your reservations might be, our fight is stronger with him than without. His message to the owners was: “Let the club go. It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to concede for the greater good.” It’s a sign of strength, not weakness, from all of us if we stick together and put our differences aside, we’ve already lost so much and are at risk of losing so much more, let’s not lose each other.

Aly Cissokho's a great shout, but hard to tell if we'd have the money before players have left/Rafa's been told he's got money to spend. If not, Antonio Lopez would do a solid job. Never rated Capdevila. You know who would be ace? Filipe Luis at Deportivo. Brilliant.

Don't think it was on this occasion, funnily enough. Or at least I'd be surprised if it was Iscariot. And to the second bit, I'd guess you're half right. Sadly, I suppose that means you're half-wrong, too. Or at least if one of the two you mention sees him for what he is, then they've got a funny way of showing it. The one thing that is almost 100 percent certain is that Steven Gerrard will be a Liverpool player until the start of July. Let's worry about it then.

We don't really have the financial mussel to compete for signatures like him. Or his brother. That's why I thought it was fishy when I read it.

Don't want to be a dick or anything, but Marko Marin is actually in Sicily. With the German national team. And I have a picture to prove it. Medientag auf Sizilien für die deutschen Nationalspieler WM 2010 Sport Nachrichten / PAZ-online.de Either this means you've made up a transfer rumour, or you've accosted a total stranger down by the docks. That sort of behaviour can get a young man into a lot of trouble.

You'd assume that Purslow, if he wanted to sack him and could sack him, would have done it already, wouldn't you? No point waiting around, is there? Suppose you'd maybe give it a while and see if he walked to save yourself some money, but there has to be a limit to that. Broughton has always strenuously pointed out that he is not involved with the day-to-day running of the club. Hicks and Gillett seem not to want to have anything to do with it, or certainly don't want to be seen to have anything to do with it. It would have to be a board decision, but would someone not have to table it? Not sure who has the authority or desire to do that at the moment.

Juventus were offering him 3.5m euros a year AFTER tax. He earns £4 million a year here, but then pays (in theory) 40 per cent tax on quite a lot of it. Even with clever accounting (which must be hard, when everyone knows what you earn), he'd struggle to avoid paying a substantial amount to the tax. The offer from Juve was designed to match what he earns here in terms of take-home. Not quite sure what "in negotiations" means, but are you telling me you'd not meet someone who was prepared to offer you a job and listen to what they had to say? I would. Doesn't make Rafa the bad guy because Juventus wanted him to be their manager.

How? Were you there? There's a remarkable amount of things in this thread, and in others, that are not facts. And I know that for a fact.

Code, where's that quote from? Has he said it today? Quite interesting... He's nailed on for Madrid, though. Unless we get new owners in the next fortnight, that is.

One of the best two cities in the world, and I imagine if you're a footballer, it's even better, living in some of the swankier parts. Mascherano's not from Buenos Aires, though, he's from San Lorenzo, which is up by Rosario (where Maxi's from) and isn't really comparable with Liverpool, I wouldn't have thought. A couple of other quick points: Masche's in Argentina at the moment, isn't he? These quotes have not appeared in any Argentine newspaper or magazine as far as I can tell. They directly contradict quite a few things he's said recently. I don't want to suggest that whichever Argentine/Argentina-based journalist the NOTW has paid for this story has spun them up into something they're not, but if you read the quotes, does he not say he's happy in Liverpool, he just has an issue with his wife? Anyway, at least she's got into the country now. Was that not the problem before? She's getting more and more English. Next year she'll be here, speak the language, but not be able to get past Boot Camp on the X Factor, and he'll want to leave because of that. He's the best player in his position in the world, but of the three crown jewels (excluding Pepe, who's not agitating) he'd probably be the easiest to lose and the easiest to replace.

Yep, agree with that. He will go there in the end, but if I was him, I'd wait two more years - when they'll be ready to get rid of Ibrahimovic - before doing it. That way, he'd be 28, at his peak as a striker, and have Messi, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Pedro (and if they have any sense about them, Di Maria) around him. It was the same with Xabi (for me, if not for everyone else), and I know a few Arsenal fans who feel the same about Fabregas. Foreign players will go home eventually, or to one of the giant continental clubs they grew up wanting to play for, and fans just have to accept it. You just have to hope they stick around for a while, or, in Torres's case, don't jump at the first sign of trouble.

Put out the bunting... This wasn't worthy of its own thread particularly, but it does raise an interesting point. Which I am about to elaborate on. Pull up a pew. Right, let's assume that Torres does want to leave, just for the sake of argument. Maybe he hates Rafa. Maybe he's worried about the future of the club. Maybe he's been on a spree of killing dogs around Sefton Park in the last few months and he's worried that the net is closing in. It doesn't matter. Worst case scenario, he wants to leave. Liverpool, though, will not let him go on the cheap. His wages will be at least £110,000 a week. And his reason for leaving, of course, is that he wants to win trophies, namely league titles and the Champions League. That narrows his field considerably. In this country, the only clubs that can fulfil all three criteria are Chelsea, Arsenal, and Manchester United. Manchester City can meet the first two, but not the third. In Spain, only Barcelona and Real Madrid could afford him, and probably only Inter Milan in Italy and Bayern in Germany. We can rule out Arsenal - Wenger won't spend that - and United, because we wouldn't sell to them. He wouldn't play for Real, and it's hard to imagine him going to Germany. That leaves Chelsea, Barca, Inter and City. City are not in the CL, and so moving there does not guarantee playing at the top level any more than staying here as far as this summer goes. Playing there at the moment is not as attractive as it may have been had City got fourth. Chelsea seem to be favourites, but they haven't spent hugely on players for three years and need more than just one signing. Barca would have to shift Zlatan - admitting he's a failure after just a season - and already have a verbal agreement to sign David Villa. That leaves Inter, who already have Eto'o and Milito, and who may not be that attractive to Torres. Basically, it's all very well saying that Torres wants to leave, or that he will go if this or that doesn't happen, but it may not be that simple. He may leave, and I'd understand if he did, but I wouldn't put money on it just yet.

As far as I'm concerned, if you take Pepe out of the equation, there's an argument Lucas has been our best player this season. And it's absolutely fucking disgusting that the fact he's not going to the World Cup is greeted with the sneering disdain a lot of you are showing. He's a fucking Liverpool player. He has his limitations, and he may never develop beyond what he is now, which is a perfectly good third-choice midfielder, but he's still a Liverpool player, and he still (very obviously) tries his heart out whenever he puts on that shirt. Yet those of you who have an axe to grind with the manager decide that the news that he won't, as I imagine he hoped he would, be going to the World Cup is something that can be used as leverage, as a stick to beat him, or Rafa, or whoever with. It's truly, tragically pathetic. You're Liverpool fans. You support your players. You do not mock them or belittle them because they're not going to the World Cup.

The senior source is Purslow. Just in case that wasn't clear from the five times he did the gag, he also used the word hierarchy later on. But the way he phrased it all is [for football] quite clever. He means that it is not, for him, a choice of him or them, he means he is not happy to sell them to raise funds and he definitely means he will not stay if he is told he has to sell them to service the debt. But he stopped short of saying they would not leave, because he knows if they want to go for footballing reasons, then the club might have to sell them. The reassurance he wants is that, in that instance, he would be able to spend the money, as opposed to the Keane sale, when the money for Silva and/or Jovetic suddenly disappeared. Regardless, the senior source is Purslow. The use of the phrase senior source renders all debate on why only Rafa has been quoted on this direct irrelevant, because Rafa's implying that whoever's doing the briefing is not being quoted, perhaps not even as a "sources said".

They say the opposite, no? That they have nothing to report on those issues, which the Companies Act 2006 would require them to report on...

Like him a lot. Very, very good touch. Scores tap-ins, really versatile. But as Monster Masch says, he'll be at Bolton by the end of June.

Fletcher would be a good squad player, which we definitely don't have enough of. Can play wide left and right as well as up front, and for £3m would get us 10 goals a season. Technically better than you think he is, and he looks like a proper Leith smackhead as well. Portsmouth have some decent players, too - Piquionne and Dindane are very unreliable but have something about them, O'Hara's ok, though none of them are theirs. I really hate Portsmouth and I'm glad they're down, but they're better than Burnley and Hull by a considerable distance. Hull? Myhill, for £1m, if we sold Cavalieri for £3m or so, just as a back-up keeper. That aside, they're dreadful. It's funny, because whoever said above that the bottom of the league is dreadful is spot on, but you look at West Ham and Wigan and there's a few players at both I'd have - Noble, Behrami, Faubert, Cole and Diame, Rodallega, N'Zogbia and McCarthy are all pretty good. Either they're surrounded by a lot of shite, or there's a lot of tactical incompetence, because most of the teams from 8th down are pretty shocking (Fulham and, at home, Birmingham and Stoke apart).

Doubt we'll send him back there, though I suppose it's more likely if they go up. Can see him being a regular on the bench straightaway. He's proved himself in the lower leagues, so there's no benefit to him doing it again. Needs to be surrounded by quality players in training, with the occasional run out. Good signing, at a hell of a price.

(not being argumentative, but...) It does in one sense, because the fact they have made it public is significant. If you're doing something on the quiet, you can play silly buggers all you want, fucking about with ridiculous demands, walking away at the last minute and that kind of jazz, but by making it public you're backing yourself into a corner where you have to do something. Maybe that's just semantics, though. If they still want £500m for us, then nothing has changed. It's not cynicism, just realism - they haven't gone yet, and until they have, there's no point celebrating*. *And even then, we should all be very wary of what we might be getting. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

The club has been up for sale for two years, effectively. But it's interesting why, this time, they've come out and said it's up for sale. They have, presumably, been told it's time to fuck off. Major problem remains, though, which is how much they want for the club. Nobody's been willing to pay that yet, so hard to see why anyone would be willing to pay it just on the back of an announcement.