PODCAST: Man City 4 Liverpool 1 - Match Reaction

1 minute ago, razor said:

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I don't watch England, but I've heard or read much about him being a "captain amongst captains".  The younger lads especially look up to him.

 

I'm not saying he should be a shoe-in for the first 11, but to say he's been a terrible captain after what's happened over the past few years is to ignore a lot of contradicting evidence.  I know you don't like him, Stringy, but come on, man, that line above is way off.

I'm talking about setting the example on the pitch.

If you can point me to a game where you could say - 'that's a captain's performance, leading by example, right there', I'll watch it and happily admit I was wrong on that occasion.  I bet you can't though, certainly not in the last few years.

I'm sure he can talk the talk, mind, so maybe it's the off the field stuff he's being lauded for.  

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

Fucking hell.  He's a terrible captain.  

 

First of all, he's a coward who will never make a tackle, or take the ball in pressure situations - if the ball comes to him while he's being pressed, he'd prefer to put a team mate in trouble than deal with the situation.  He's usually in no-man's land when we need him to be positionally astute.  I don't know any prem player since Ronaldo who makes a worse first of leading by example. 

 

Second, he's got no tactical nous.  He's never made an in-flight change to how the team's set up.  In fact, he can't even spot the runners he's responsible for - too many opposition players just waltz by him into dangerous areas, and he doesn't track them.  He does like to point, but no-one bothers taking any notice.  He certainly wouldn't have the brains to cover for Trent for example.  

 

He's a born follower, not a leader.  And he's entirely typical of the players that will ultimately be responsible for Klopp's demise.  Not his fault at all, but a sense of misplaced loyalty means he's retained when he should have been shipped out.  

 

All that said, and I'm not being facetious here, but he does do a great job as ambassador for the club.  That's what he should be doing now.  

 

 

He was made captain 8 years ago and is still captain, he has also captained England. I think that says a fair bit about the man as a captain. You are assessing his playing ability as a stick to beat him for captaincy. As a player I think his time is just about up but again I would say the number of games played for club and country says a lot . , so shite he was voted football writers player of the season one time I think.

32 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

He was made captain 8 years ago and is still captain, he has also captained England. I think that says a fair bit about the man as a captain. You are assessing his playing ability as a stick to beat him for captaincy. As a player I think his time is just about up but again I would say the number of games played for club and country says a lot . , so shite he was voted football writers player of the season one time I think.

nope.  I'm talking about him setting an example on the pitch.  I think he has just enough technical ability to play the water carrier role - it's the mental and tactical side he struggles with, and now he's not able to put the miles in.

Good discussion about Curtis Jones. No idea what is going on behind the scenes, but I'd much rather see Jones on the pitch/bench than Ox and Arthur. 

Wonder if Carvalho regrets leaving Fulham?

The game you were thinking of Dave was 0-0 at Anfield against Stoke in 2018, when Trent started in midfield. Just before Kiev. Buvac left in the days after the game. 

30 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

nope.  I'm talking about him setting an example on the pitch.  I think he has just enough technical ability to play the water carrier role - it's the mental and tactical side he struggles with, and now he's not able to put the miles in.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but I will clarify in that I don’t believe he , along with a few others, is not up to it this season.

Shame this episode came out rather flat, I felt that second half capitulation deserved a more detailed analysis and heated discussion from all the unfortunately missing regulars, I felt that was an important moment, after the Real games where we were shown how far off we have fallen from where we think we can / should be.

 Would like to listen to an episode with all the podcast heavy hitters and a no holds barred discussion  dedicated to Klopp, or "Klopp" since it is not only the man that is currently the problem. Where we actually are with Klopp, do we still believe he is the man who will turn this around. Because almost every discussion brings up issues with this team which are normally considered management's failing, but somehow stopping short of pointing the finger. It is clearly a painfull issue but I don't know, when I heard he wanted to extend Firmino I sort of froze. I don't think this is a job of bringing in a couple of good signings, we need a complete reconstruction, new play and a new team, that is a massive task and I am no longer sure Klopp still has the energy, drive, motivation to do it. 

That's a discussion for the end of the season. We can only touch on bits and pieces when we're doing post-match discussions. A full and proper conversation about Klopp if/how he can fix it isn't really for now but we've definitely discussed it already in various pods.

1 hour ago, dave u said:

That's a discussion for the end of the season. We can only touch on bits and pieces when we're doing post-match discussions. A full and proper conversation about Klopp if/how he can fix it isn't really for now but we've definitely discussed it already in various pods.

I dont know, I guess you are right, it just feels to me more and more like an elephant in the room. 

55 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I dont know, I guess you are right, it just feels to me more and more like an elephant in the room. 

Maybe, I just think it's too terrifying a thought to even contemplate in any great detail. We've got the best manager in the world, if he can't fix it then whatever we do next is a step down and a massive gamble. So while he's been shit this season and probably carries as much blame as the players, I'm not ready to start doubting whether he's the man to fix it. 

If next season is as bad then we have a problem, but I want to see him rebuild this summer and then let's see if we're progressing again. I don't expect us to be back to our best level any time soon, I just need to see that we're heading back in that direction again.

9 hours ago, stringvest said:

Fucking hell.  He's a terrible captain.  

 

First of all, he's a coward who will never make a tackle, or take the ball in pressure situations - if the ball comes to him while he's being pressed, he'd prefer to put a team mate in trouble than deal with the situation.  He's usually in no-man's land when we need him to be positionally astute.  I don't know any prem player since Ronaldo who makes a worse first of leading by example. 

 

Second, he's got no tactical nous.  He's never made an in-flight change to how the team's set up.  In fact, he can't even spot the runners he's responsible for - too many opposition players just waltz by him into dangerous areas, and he doesn't track them.  He does like to point, but no-one bothers taking any notice.  He certainly wouldn't have the brains to cover for Trent for example.  

 

He's a born follower, not a leader.  And he's entirely typical of the players that will ultimately be responsible for Klopp's demise.  Not his fault at all, but a sense of misplaced loyalty means he's retained when he should have been shipped out.  

 

All that said, and I'm not being facetious here, but he does do a great job as ambassador for the club.  That's what he should be doing now.  

 

 

Have you reflected at all how out of step your view of him is with virtually everyone in the game? He’s widely regarded as a great professional and leader by anyone you care to mention working either directly or indirectly in football. 

48 minutes ago, Paul said:

Have you reflected at all how out of step your view of him is with virtually everyone in the game? He’s widely regarded as a great professional and leader by anyone you care to mention working either directly or indirectly in football. 

I have.  Still, it’s difficult to ignore the evidence of your own eyes.  I’ve been waiting in vain for someone to send me a game where Henderson has led by example and played the sort of game you’d expect from a captain.  

You don’t really want that though, do you? If someone with a better memory than I gave you some games, I get the strong impression you’d pick holes in his performances. Why are you so vociferous about your dislike of him? Comes across as almost personal to me. 

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

I have.  Still, it’s difficult to ignore the evidence of your own eyes.  I’ve been waiting in vain for someone to send me a game where Henderson has led by example and played the sort of game you’d expect from a captain.  

Any game against Everton.

2 hours ago, Paul said:

Have you reflected at all how out of step your view of him is with virtually everyone in the game? He’s widely regarded as a great professional and leader by anyone you care to mention working either directly or indirectly in football. 

It's almost on a par with my dad's insistence that Kelleher is better than Alisson. Doesn't matter that he's the only person in the world who thinks it, he won't be swayed!

1 hour ago, Paul said:

You don’t really want that though, do you? If someone with a better memory than I gave you some games, I get the strong impression you’d pick holes in his performances. Why are you so vociferous about your dislike of him? Comes across as almost personal to me. 

That's the thing.  I think he's a fine ambassador for the club, and has represented the club brilliantly - off the pitch.  It's impossible not to admire his work in the community and in standing up to racism and taking the role of spokesman when needed.  

It's equally impossible not to see him as a dead weight on the pitch.  I have nothing against Henderson the person; on the contrary, he should be lauded more than he is imo.  On the pitch though, no.  He's the antithesis of the archetypal LFC midfielder. 

24 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

It's almost on a par with my dad's insistence that Kelleher is better than Alisson. Doesn't matter that he's the only person in the world who thinks it, he won't be swayed!

I have other crackpot theories - for example, I also reckon Tsimikas is better than Robertson, and Konate is the real McCoy.  And Gakpo can be remodelled into a top class Wijnaldum type midfielder.  And Thiago is better than Alonso (and I loved Alonso).  And Klopp is unlikely to be here this time next year.  Less controversially, I do think Alisson is better than Kelleher, but Kelleher will be off in the close season.  

If you assemble enough crackpot theories, there’s a chance one might prove to be right sooner or later. 

4 hours ago, stringvest said:

I have.  Still, it’s difficult to ignore the evidence of your own eyes.  I’ve been waiting in vain for someone to send me a game where Henderson has led by example and played the sort of game you’d expect from a captain.  

MOM against Milan last season and also scored the winner.

12 hours ago, Paul said:

You don’t really want that though, do you? If someone with a better memory than I gave you some games, I get the strong impression you’d pick holes in his performances. Why are you so vociferous about your dislike of him? Comes across as almost personal to me. 

That reminds me of the Lucas haters who’d wait until he misplaced one pass and then unload on him. He either had to have a 100% record in all parts of his game or he was “garbage”. 

Just finished the pod. That was the most depressing drive I’ve had to Shannon in a long time. 
 

I was at a wake on Saturday so didn’t see the game but I read @dave u  going mad at Melo for shaking Guardiola’s hand and thought Dave was being ridiculous. Sure all players shake the managers hand, I thought. I assumed it had happened at full time. Can’t believe he did it after the goal??? I haven’t seen it, but maybe he was just caught on the hop or something?  Very strange. You can tell it was odd by Tsimi also not reacting. I’m not sure Robbo would have pushed him away either as it was such a weird thing to happen that I think they were taken totally by surprise and might have been one of those that a few minutes after the event you start wishing you’d reacted differently. 
 

The Curtis thing is very strange

though. There is clearly some major issue with him as putting Melo and Ox on the bench ahead of him is definitely saying something big about Jones. There’ll be a big story there somewhere. Maybe his cockiness and confidence has got him in trouble? Either way, Klopp clearly has a big issue with him. I think he’ll be sold in the summer. 

Yeah its certainly possible that they were just too shocked to react as it was completely abnormal, weird behaviour.

It was different between Tsimikas and Arthur though. With Kostas he was fit pumping right in his face and goading him. By the time Arthur arrived it was like he realised what he'd done and so he smiled and extended his hand instead.

He needs punching right in his stupid fucking bald face.

Guardiola casually shaking Arthur's hand after City's equaliser! pic.twitter.com/Z5oVCkEtG1

— EuroFoot (@eurofootcom) April 1, 2023

I think Melo was just surprised. It’s instinctive to accept someone’s  hand if it’s pushed right in front of you (unless you’re Evra). It was like some wild-eyed drunk walking up to you in a pub with his hand out. 

He laughs too though, that's the bit that annoyed me most. And he has the presence of mind to cover his mouth so we can't see what he said to him.