Jack the Sipper

It might have been mentioned already, but a lot of the fume from the Bitters seems to be based on the 'fact' that they've been heavily punished, while Chelsea and City will get off lightly as they're part of the shady cabal called the 'big 6' that runs football. If those clubs are found guilty and don't receive proportionate punishment then fair enough, whinge away, but as it stands they've got fuck all to complain about. They broke the rules in a big way and other clubs were relegated potentially suffered as a result of their cheating. It's them that should feel hard done by. And a 10 point deduction couldn't have come at a better time, when there's at least 3 clubs that probably wont be getting over 25 points this season. I hope they get sued. Fuck em.

So you haven't noticed any correlation between being on the left or right and stances on a ceasefire, at least in the west? Interesting that you also equate being against a ceasefire with being in favour killing babies. Incredibly crass and offensive view IMO. And was Jon Lansman a baby killing zionist when he was one of Corbyn's closest allies?

Right, but I'm not so sure that ethical concerns and 'doing the right thing' regardless were uppermost in all these MPs minds. Also interesting to note that we're supposed to believe Jess Philip's (to take one example) view on a ceasefire is to the left of Bernie Sanders, or that she's more ethically sound on this issue.

I was referring specifically to their stance on a ceasefire (neither of them see the merits in one), not their overall view of the Israeli government's actions. And, seeing that in a years time Starmer may well be the PM, I'm not sure if it's a great idea for him to be calling the leader of a major ME ally (for better or worse) a reactionary racist. But that's just me. I think most people nowadays are calling Hamas terrorists, regardless of ethnicity. I'm not sure why you would see his Jewish identity as significant here. Do you think it clouds his judgement in some way?

I've only just found out that Bernie Sanders takes the same line as Starmer re a ceasefire. he also has no problem calling Hamas terrorists. I'll be honest, I never had Sanders down as a pro-genocide war criminal, but there you go. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/14/sanders-israel-gaza-cease-fire/

And she's gone! Good fucking riddance.

"There's no black in the Union Jack" "Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah?" Real upstanding members of the community there, and that's before we even get to the goon at 30s. And what exactly is their stated reason for 'counter-protesting'? I mean the real reason is pretty fucking obvious, but were they claiming to be preventing damage to the Cenotaph, or protesting against pro-Hamas sentiment? I'd imagine there'll be serious and hurried talk among the Tory hierarchy about changing the rules for electing leaders, 'cos when Sunak gets the boot Braverman will surely be putting herself forward as his successor. As it stands, if she makes the final two, there'll be a flood of newly joined racists looking to elect her leader. The problem is, she's too rich even for the Tories blood. Fuck what the noisy minority think of her, she's electoral poison.

Can't believe no-one's mentioned this masterpiece. Also, breaking into the palace with a sponge and a rusty spanner...

Apologies, I read that first part wrong. I thought you were talking about cheering the opposing teams players. I'll come back to it later.

He can answer for himself, but it read to me like he was talking about religious people, not races of people.

What? So using your analogy, Ukraine are the opposing side to Palestine? Regards the first point, that's not what I'm referring to. I've said what I've seen people saying, and it's not just about others supporting Ukraine but having a pop at those who support Palestine.

So I've heard. But I was referring to that specific post. There's also a poster @Planet Origi who has repeatedly been racist towards Jews on this thread, yet still posts on here, and doesn't get anything like the same condemnation for those comments.

I've seen a few people on social media, and on here, arguing that, if you support Ukraine in their war against Russia, then you'd be a hypocrite, or worse, if you don't equally support the Palestinians in their war against Israel. While I don't think the two are directly comparable, to those who do make that argument, surely the reverse must also be true - that if, for example, you're spamming threads every day on here to show support for the Palestinians, then we can expect to see you expressing your support for the Ukrainians with equal fervour on the relevant thread here.

The implication in that meme being that the blue stripes represent the river and the sea, and not the blue lines on a tallit shawl... I thought he was talking about religious people. I wouldn't go so far as to want rid of them, but I'd be all for them dying out and not being replaced by more of them. I think Lennon probably said something similar.

Jan 25 at the latest, but a general belief it will be between next Spring and Autumn. The governing party get to choose the date, so it will be when they think it's most advantageous to them. There is a desire to change from FFP, but as the two main parties benefit from it, calls get nowhere. We did have a referendum on changing our voting system abut a decade ago, which failed. I think there needs to be a long and considered debate (no laughing at the back) about what system we want and to be aware what the pros and cons of them are. None are perfect. The left are generally of the view that PR is better because it gives more weight to smaller (left-wing) parties that get crowded out in FPP. True, but the same would happen on the right. In 2017, with 2 million votes across the country, the Greens would have had more MPs than the one MP they ended up with under FFP. Ukip got 4 million votes at the same election, and won one seat. Tony Benn, also raised the point about losing elected representation under PR, and having MPs imposed from a list.

They came from Labour, the Tories, other right-wing parties, pundits and celebs, and from foriegn sources. And can you guess why he's under nowhere near the scrutiny Corbyn was, this man who's trying to get elected? Because he's learnt from Corbyn's mistakes, naivety, or stubbornness perhaps?

Only if they're tactical votes. Otherwise you could easily end up in a situation where Labour loses seats it might otherwise win to the Tories to green votes, the Tories win the election and talk about how it was actually how people are tired of green policies that won them the election, then talk about 'protecting the motorists', and change their policies to suit. Something pretty much exactly like what happened this year when they won Uxbridge. Agreed. And I can see why, given the sheer torrent of accusations and smears that came Corbyn's way. If I were trying to win an election, I'd be mindful of how the guy before me did and learn from that. If seems others think 'vote with your heart, say what you feel', is enough.

He was being called a kid-starving, nonce-protecting Nazi by the same crowd a few months back. This is progress.

Hard to believe now, but Portillo was seen as hard-right, the heir to Thatcher, a real cold shameless cunt, and he played on it too. Now he's trundling around the country on steam trains in pink suits talking to old folk about where to get the best scones in the Mendips. Jonathan Aitken was another one. I can only imagine what fate has lined up for Braverman.

He's actually got a few positions he argues for (whether he believes in them or not is besides the point) that are like a red rag to the brutes that watch that shite, namely net zero and HS2. Apparently, the Mail, who he currently does a column for, are pissed of with him for banging on about them. There's also the issue of the forthcoming election, which might make things interesting. Even though GBNews are to the right of most Tories (which takes some doing these days) they'll almost certainly be campaigning for them in whatever ways they can. Will Johnson, who still feels sore about the way he was removed and Sunak in particular, toe the line?

No I'm not, not by a long shot. I only respond to things that others, generally his supporters, put up, and in return I get them telling me to shut up, move on, calling me weird, or posting passive aggressive shite instead of actually, you know, engaging with the topic.

And that is what I have been doing. There's no posts from me calling him a terrorist sympathiser, or condoning the Israeli response. I've just taken issue with that aspect of his 'solution' to the conflict, which I think is both unrealistic and ignores what the Palestinians themselves might accept for peace. I think he's misguided not malign. You would hardly believe I supported Corbyn as leader and still respect him now to listen to some of the responses from some of his followers on here whenever I have criticised him. No dissent allowed at all it seems.

Of course they are, and they get plenty of it on here, including from me. If the obvious needs the stating, I think the world would be a better place if the Israeli government (who I condemned in this thread the moment it was formed last year) were out of power, and that Naftali Bennett cunt makes me puke every time I see him on the TV. I believe in a ceasefire and think the western leaders have got this wrong and will end up on the wrong side of history. But plenty of people already say this on here, and I'm really not interested in echo chambers. I criticise Corbyn because he says things that are also worthy of criticism that don't get flagged on here, namely his repeated 'only path to peace...' stance that I've already discussed with you. Controversial view maybe, but if publicly school educated, privileged elderly white men in the west kept their 'we know what's best for you' noses out of the Middle East 70, 80, 100 years ago then they and we wouldn't be in this almighty fucking mess right now. Just a thought.

He's quit with the 'only path to a just & lasting peace' bullshit at last. Perhaps he's on here taking notes. I can only imagine what Mr kinder and gentler would make of the behaviour of some of his supporters.

Moral clarity and humanity... a man who just last year defended a fellow Tory MP who'd just been convicted of noncing a 15 year old boy.