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isr

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  1. isr
    Really? Bloody hell, what would have happened had Ngog (cool finish!) smacked right into van de Saar midriff, and he launched it downfield? :eek:
  2. isr
    I think Pepe had the lesser distance to cover, with Arbeloa being in Madrid. ;)
  3. isr
    Did he come off injured against Lyon?
  4. isr
    No, I don't come from an autocracy. However, I do hail from the township of you're-either-helping-or-you're-part-of-the-problem. Give me a fucking break with this "there's more than one way to look at things". I figured that out after kindergarten. How about, "theres a time and place for everything". Did you ever learn that? This team is under pressure. Kilotons of it. The team is led by the manager. He is under pressure. Megatons of it. Want to debate shit A v shit B? Fine. Do it later. Right now, we need complete, unified, 100%, wall of sound and in your face, total, committed, passionate support of this team. On Sunday. On the following Wednesday. The weekend after that. And on, and on. Until we pull ourselves up by the socks and start moving forward again. You don't get that by harping on the same old shit about the manager, or player X Y and Z. Its done. We're here. Deal with it, and support the team. You want people to dress in mock Roman togas, and go to Sunday's game with a moderator giving everyone a chance to climb the podium and voice their $0.02 on who's to blame for our form? Great, and lets all have an nice little sing-song when we're done. Or do you want supporters to ditch all that tedious bullshit, and spend 90 minutes trying to suck the ball into the net? If you want the latter, you won't get there with the usual suspects repeating the same old tired criticisms of the manager. Like I said, there's a time and place for everything.
  5. isr
    Listen up, shit for brains, you might get a clue. No-one ever told you it was Rafapool. But when you keep slagging the manager off, DURING the season, when our backs are against the wall ... then you're not supporting the team either. This whole thing is tedious beyond despair. Is there a single person who has spent 5 minutes on this forum in any doubt whatsoever as to what you think of Rafa? I doubt it. So shut it already. There's a time and place for everything. You want Rafa gone. Then get protesting and marching and phoning your whines into radio and TV shows ..... AFTER THE SEASON IS OVER. When the season is in full swing, and we are in a bad patch, and our backs are against the wall - THAT IS NOT THE TIME. Hence the anger. What the fuck do simpletons like you think you're achieving by moaning against Rafa now? You want him dismissed, or want him to walk before Sunday's game? You got someone lined up to replace him before kickoff? No? I didn't think so. So shut the fuck up, and support the team. And part of supporting the team, IS supporting the manager of that team, while the season is ongoing. You can't divorce one from the other. Fuckwits like you are doing a great job of spreading unease amongst supporters, with your constant chiming in, at the drop of a hat - "Rafa is XXX, Rafa is YYY, blah fucking blah" We don't need additional unease. We're not fools. We can see whats happening on the pitch. What we need is a united body of supporters, ready to turn every match into a repeat of 2005 CL semi-final. Each and every match, THAT atmosphere, until the team turns things around. And we're not going to get it with idiots like you refusing to get off your "Rafa out" bandwagon. Talk about fiddling while Rome is burning..... So can it. Shut your trap. And if you can't, then take a hike and go do something else till the season is over. Because we don't need your shit at this time.
  6. isr
    Well, Rafa's isn't gone. He's the Liverpool manager NOW. No matter how many times "mongs" like you keep bringing it up, he is STILL the Liverpool manager. I'm sick to death of listening to you whining fucks bitching about the manager. Now is not the fucking time. Do everyone a favour. Bugger off, and take the rest of the mongs with you. If you can't support the team without bitching about the manager, in the midst of the campaign, then you're no fucking use. We would be better off WITHOUT YOU. Take a break from Liverpool, or even from football. Go stick your head in an oven if you like. Whatever it takes. Just leave the supporting to the rest of us who don't keep turning on our own every 5 seconds. So whats keeping you (and the rest of you). Liverpool have a 1000 supporters ready and waiting to fill your boots at the next match, and the one after that. If this is the best you can do, then you're not needed. And NO. I do not want to hear (for the 1000th time) what you think about the manager. I don't give a shit.
  7. isr
    I like the idea, but with our luck, the ref will probably not notice the bloody carcass on the pitch. The Mancs will attack, and the ball will deflect off dead-Baz into the net. :wallbutt: EDIT: hmm, 1000th post. And nearly 4 years to get there. Damn I'm slow ....
  8. isr
    I'm sure some people said the same about the next manager who (post 84) wins us our next European Cup. Our support doesn't seem to be as steadfast as once it was. He will always be 5 bad games away from being slagged off, and the potential sack. The Liverpool Way of the 21st century.
  9. isr
    Ok, now I'm looking at a mystery, inside a conundrum, wrapped up in an enigma. And I've left my magnifying glass at home. :dunno:
  10. isr
    Brownie, to pick out one other thing from your previous reply: Thats something I've heard many times over the last 5 years (in one form or another). He was brought in to win the League with no money, so whats the problem? Umm, thats akin to saying "here doc, we want to hire you to cure cancer. You can work in this lab for the next five years, and here's a fiver to help you with any lab expenses, like umm, rats and stuff" 5 years later ... "Ok Doc, you've well on the way to curing cancer, judging by your latest peer reviewed research. Whats that? You want some credit? Fuck that, you're just filling your job description, you greedy bastard." What do we say to our next manager? Ok, the last guy was a failure. He didn't get nearly as much to spend as our rivals, and he didn't win the league. You're gonna have to do better. Oh, and by the way, he won the European Cup in his first year. So get cracking .... ;)
  11. isr
    But Unrighteous, again I ask. What reaction can I, or the multitude of others who genuinely have no clue what you're hinting at, have? Should I become the kind of person who now regards someone with foul suspicion, err, because someone hinted at some misbegotten deeds?
  12. isr
    Brownie, I understand what you're saying. Too often, this whole debate can get stuck into a rut of "thou shalt not speak ill of thy manager" vs "you mindless Rafa nut huggers". But there is an extreme wing of the "Rafa is evil" brigade, who have hijacked everything through their continuous, almost hate-filled critcism of the manager. Its gone way beyond simple football, to accusing him of nearly everything under the sun. Along with mindless insults (at the LIVERPOOL manager, on a LIVERPOOL forum). So any simple discussion of the merits or otherwise of Rafa's latest work in progress, doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens amidst that shit. And it really does anger me (and quite a few others, it would seem). If we want to get that argument back onside, then those mindless cretins who keep slagging him off (not criticising, slagging) need to be told where to get off. Without that, its just Deja Vu all over again (as the great Yogi Berra once said). Here's a first suggestion on how to get started: The next time you see a, cough, Liverpool supporter booing his own players before half time at Anfield, do us non-match-goers a favour, and kick his fucking head in. That goes for phillyhamam, and all those other pseudo-supporters.
  13. isr
    Yeah, I get it. Dark hints at .... what exactly? Is he taking transfer bungs? Is he banging someone's missus? Is he molesting the apprentices? Honestly, what kind of reaction were you hoping for? "Burn him at the stake, the bloody foreign rotter." I can only talk about what I see. If everyone did that, and less of the behind the scenes character assasination, we'd be better off.
  14. isr
    Brownie, its football. And we're talking about a football club which most, or all, of us hold very dear to our hearts (speaking for me personally, for 31 years). In the old days, I would get really steamed after a bad performance and loss (all I'll say is that its damned lucky we never owned any family pets). Now, I have learned to hold those emotions in check (at this rate, I'll soon grow up enough to be able to tie my own shoelaces!). In the end, its a game. And one should learn to enjoy it, and derive enjoyment from it, or else whats the point? But when we start talking about fundamental issues which go to the very core of what this club is supposed to be about, then it hits home. Hard. Similar to the ownership disgrace. To directly answer one of your comments: I don't really disagree with the premise behind this. Until a manager proves his worth, the jury is (and should be) out. But, what did we want from a manager, post Houillier? - get us into a position to mount genuine honest-to-goodness title challenges (just like the good old days). check - win stuff check - get us back to being amongst the big guns in Europe. Err, check, double check. With a cherry on top. For all his faults (and who hasn't got them), Rafa has ALREADY demonstrated all of the above. If someone had offered that to us in the dark days of 1994, we would have bitten his hand off. Is he the greatest manager in the whole wide world? Dunno. How would you ever really know, unless you tried them all out, one after the other. The Real Madrid way, which I described above (oh wait, Capello was the best. Now we know. Crap, already fired him...) Rafa is here, now. He HAS demonstrated the ability to do the job (for all the arguments about net spend, and "he threw the league away", etc, etc, the results as mentioned above still stand). So why not support him?
  15. isr
    Ah go blow yourself. (and yes I am being personal here. Just for you. Cause you're ... "special" ... )
  16. isr
    Unrighteous, the kind of stuff you're alluding to really does get my goat. (and I'm not trying to be overly personal here, with anyone. We're just debating) Deep down, we all ackowledge that a good, succesful manager needs to a hard-arsed bastard at times with his players. We should know. ALL of our succesful managers were .... hard-arsed bastards to our players when needed. Every one. Shanks. Paisley. You name it. The stories are legion. Part of the reason why we have a "back the team, back the manager" mantra is because, deep down, we know that there are times when the manager needs to be ruthless. And at those times, you need to have clear delineation of who gets the final backing. We never used to be a club who would turn against a manager, because he "upset" a particular player. At some clubs, the lionise certain players, to the exclusion of everything else. The develop personality cults, etc. Success usually doesn't follow. (classic example: Shearer at Newcastle). At ours, yes, we lionise players (Kenny is the closest we've come to developing a "personality cult" of our own, but we've stopped just short of that). But we have always held the manager higher (at least, we did when we were winning things consistantly). In the end, it boils down to a simple choice. What do we want to be? I'll give you 2 polar opposites, for arguments sake. 1) Real Madrid. Players first, manager second. Once you achieve "cult status", you can then proceed to be shit for 2 years, and still any manager who dares to drop you, will be lynched. End result: "galactico" setup (they've always been like that, post Puskas and di Stefano, even before the term was coined). Managers come and go. Win the league, you're sacked (the managers who won their last 2 league titles were sacked before, and just after, the next season started). Win the European Cup, you're sacked (eg: the guy who won no.7 for them). Win the European Cup AND the League - you'll probably earn a stay of execution for a year. Spains most successful side. 2) Liverpool. The fans. The manager. The team. The Holy Trinity, in that order. End result: great players shipped out (and perhaps upset along the way) when it was felt it was time to refresh the side, before a decline set in. Managerial stability? Yes, in spades. Englands most successful side. What do we want to be? Some might argue that 1) is a price worth paying. If so, then be honest about it. It would mean a complete throwing out of the last vestiges of "the Liverpool Way". If thats what some are clamouring for, then so be it. But be up front about it. This, more than anything else, explains the rift in our support. Because there are 2 different approaches at work here. They are both mutually exclusive, and they get to the very essence of what we want our club to be like. PS: if you're also alluding to Rafa's public spats with the current ownership, then how about this. Take Shanks. Transport him to the present day, and give him Rafa's job. Then tell me how often he would be in the media, arguing and complaining about the shit around him, post Athens. Be honest!
  17. isr
    Carra_il, Thats a (purposely?) very limited recounting of fan reactions last year. In any case, I completely reject the underlying premise behind what you're saying. In short, if we're not on a great run at the moment, slaughter the manager. When we're on a great run, back him. When we go off the boil again, slaughter the manager (again). Where does that nonsense get us? I reiterate (I know, quoting myself, the publicity-seeking git that I am): The important part is bolded. That is a fair representation of just how sections of our support behaved. I'm not making any of it up (and I trust you will agree with me, at least on that score). Thats not the way you support a team. It just isn't. And you shouldn't be turning it on and off like a tap (as you seem to advocate above). The way our support is evolving pretty much ensures that every season, no matter how succesful (in the end) will involve backbitting, added pressure heaped on the team by the fans, etc, etc. No matter how successful that season ends up being (note to self: stop repeating!). "Manager is shit" "Oh wait, he's a genius" "Lets boo the team" "Lets back the team" "Lets boo this player" "Great, we're playing at home. The team always performs better, knowing that the fans are behind them (err, we are now, honest!)" Thats ONE way of "following" and "supporting" a football club. Many other clubs, and their supporters, use it. It was NEVER supposed to be our way.
  18. isr
    Another thought, in response to: "Rafa blew it last season" "We had our one chance to win it last season, and he fucked it up" Etc, etc. Myopic doesn't even begin to cover it. He blew it? You're all talking as if someone else landed from Mars, and magically picked the team up, and plonked us on top of the league. And all Rafa had to do was not fuck it up? Excuse me. Who got us there? You're all taking it for granted. Challenging for the title. Making a genuine challenge for the Champions League every year. How do you think we got there? You're telling me that in 2004, we were already blase at the prospect of being regarded as genuine perennial challengers for the European Cup? Similarly with his transfer record. Harp on about the Keane's and Dossena's as long as you like. But you're being somewhat economical with the truth if you don't also mention the Reina's, Aggers, Skyrtels, Mascherano's, Alonso's, Torres's etc. Oh right. I forgot. All the good buys are irrelevant, because "even my grandmother would have bought them" (to paraphrase someone from earlier in this thread). The knee-jerk hatred of Rafa in some parts is accentuated by the continuous focusing on his mistakes, and the deliberate ignoring of what he has done right.
  19. isr
    Coop, the calls from the gallery to sack/pillory/burn in effigy Rafa started in earnest, AFTER THE 3RD GAME OF THE SEASON. And it was pretty vicious stuff. They died down somewhat, as the season progressed. After ManUre overtook us and opened up a gap, the vitriol came out again. Died down slightly when we ran them close to the finish line. Then come summer time, it starts up again. There doesn't seem to be much appetite for patience, or a willingness to see things through. We must win now, because we're Liverpool, and we deserve it (and no-one else does?). If you don't win now, you're shit, and get the fuck out. Oh, and by the way, despite our owners, we're still the legendary Liverpool, with legendary support, and we still believe in doing things the old way. Right .... No, it isn't. Even though we CLAIM to be knowledgable footie fans who regard the whole Sky "football was invented in 1992, and everyone deserves trophies now" mentality with disdain ..... we still act it out, hook line and sinker. Last season it was justified to start pouring vitriol on our own manager after the 3rd game. So this season, its justified to do the same now. To be more precise, for me it was when a section of our crowd started boo'ing a LIVERPOOL player, at Anfield, before half-time. Just like those mongs who used to boo Barnes at Wembley. He gets the ball. Boo. He passes the ball. Boo. Our own player. Heat of the moment? Hardly. Some members of THIS FORUM gladly admitted to doing it, and kept defending their actions afterwards. It seems like if you go to the game, you are automatically given carte blanche to act any way you damn well feel like, and you still qualify as being "part of the great tradition of Liverpool FC support" . Adversity brings out the best, and the worst, in people. Sometimes its better to remember: - its a game, enjoy it. - if we have a good manager, back him. He'll do good things and not so good things. Over time, more of the former than the latter. Back him, and he'll do the best he can do. - we have good players. Back them. Over time, it will only help - enjoy the success. Take the failures on the chin without whining - its a game, enjoy it Last season was a classic illustration. We had one hell of a roller coaster ride, beating all the big teams (quite handily), struggling against some of the weaker ones. 1st or 2nd all season. Some amazing finishes, where we refused to lie down, and pulled wins out of the hat. A mad dash at the end, where we were banging the goals in like an addict popping pills. 4 here. 5 there. Another 4 there. Keep em coming. Came very very close to winning the big one. We should have been having a ball. Fans, players and manager united, enjoying a real title challenge, with some superb performances along the way (going to Old Trafford and fucking them 4-1, for example?). Instead, we had a section of the support turning on the manager in a nasty fashion. And another section reacting against it. And the manager under pressure throughout the season. And fans booing our players. And fans booing our team when we go top of the table. Etc, etc. Thats the modern day reality of the Liverpool Way, it seems. And it won't change until some folks realise and own up to what they are doing. Fat chance ....
  20. isr
    Thanks guys (and to those who PM'ed me).
  21. isr
    Gentlemen, could any of you point me towards a live stream? Dish network here in the States don't show any South American qualifying, since they kicked Gol TV off their network (bastards!). Would really appreciate it.
  22. isr
    streams, anyone?
  23. isr
    Hmm, based on the title of this thread, I was expecting some interesting stuff on the Germans outflanking of France's defensive wall along their border, and blitzkreiging through the Ardennes. Or maybe something on why the Belgians couldn't hold out long enough for the British Expeditionary Force to make a stand there in 1914. Eh, football?
  24. isr
    Allowing the Pakistani government to do nothing? Eh? Do you know how many casualties Pakistan has taken, civilian and military, since 2001? Go back, check on it, then post back on what your definition of nothing. Granted, its not the same "Taliban" that they are fighting (see below) The civilian leadership is not. Never has been. The army, on the other hand, is. They clearly define the boundaries of what is, and isn't acceptable (in terms of foreign policy), and the civilians have to operate within that. When Musharaf strayed from the army line, and allied himself too closely with the American line, he was done, politically, for that very reason. The army did not want the Afghanistan invasion. And they knew, back in 2001, that the Americans would lose. We told them so, explicitly. They went ahead anyway. They (the Pakistan army) are not going to pick a long term fight with people (Pathan tribes allied with the Taliban) whom we don't really have a problem with in the first place, and have to live with long after the West leaves. End of story. In terms of the army looking out for Pakistan (their no.1 job, enriching generals comes as #2), you can't really argue with that. The ones whom they (the Pakistan army) have been fighting with are different groups, like the ones who were expanding from Swat, and Beitullah Masood's group of bastards. Because these were in direct conflict with Pakistan. Unfortunately, for you in the West, all of these groups are labelled as "Taliban" (by your journalists who don't know their ears from their elbows) so you don't actually understand whats going on. Amidst the 2001 invasion and its aftermath, Pakistan and India are still playing out their "big game". Witness India moving weapons in large quantities into Afghanistan, and arming Beitullah Masood. Although he is labelled as "head of the Pakistan Taliban", he actually spent the majority of his effort fighting against Pakistan, not against the Americans. Which is primarily why Pakistan in turn blew the Indian embassy in Kabul to shit. As a warning to knock that shit off, one which seems to have mostly worked. (Although the general belief in intelligence circles in Islamabad is that we really didn't have a hand in the Mumbai attack, before you ask). So, witness the situation in Waziristan. Where Taliban fighters, who fight against the Americans in Afghanistan, have been HELPING the Pakistan army to destroy Masood, who is labeled as a "Taliban leader" in the West.
  25. isr
    Haha, ok, walked into that one. You got me. I used to be Uncle Rudyard's editor, back in the day.
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