KevieG

Club is a circus.

Oh but they do... I'm in the top 0.9% in 54,039,829th place. Yay for me. Global Rich List For providing this service I would like an increase in green blobs

They've got more or less the same squad. Thats what I'm saying. People were saying last summer that Chelsea's squad was their best ever. On paper at least. But they have lost their old intensity, they can no longer defend corners, team spirit looks like its low, that sort of thing.

We'll never know. Given Rafa's predilection for "controlling the game", I'm not sure he'll ever win the title, whether he is here or was with Chelsea. Sometimes you've just gotta throw the kitchen sink at teams, especially the shit ones who pack their defences. You can certainly make a case that Rafa is the better manager, but i think you can make just as strong a case the other way.

Conjecture

Its the standard attack on Mourinho's credentials. They'll say anyone can do it with Chelsea's resources: It makes it easier no doubt, but look at Grant and Scolari with the same squad. Chelsea are nowhere near as formidable. Also his Porto success would see to be the deal clincher. You'll then get the oul Porto were bent and had good players as well. If he wins SerieA with Inter the excuse will be that he inherited the team that already won back to back titles. If they knock United out in the CL, it'll be down to something else. The fact is that he is a very good manager with great record.

For me it would be 1) Mourinho 2) O'Neill I remember suggesting Mourinho over a year ago and getting absolutely hammered for it. It seems the attitude towards him is thawing. His record versus Ferguson is pure out Pwnership. I also have a fear that if and when Ferguson does go that he will end up at United and they will continue winning. For those saying his success was only down to money, just look at how Chelsea have regressed since he left. O'Neill is very underrated here. The job he has done at Villa is incredible, they were going nowhere until he arrived, and on a modest budget, he has them 3 points behind us and we are supposedly putting in our first title challenge in years. Both men would be very good choices should we have to make one.

This may well not go down to well with some people but here is Steven Kellys latest take on the whole Rafa/Parry/Scum developments. Some interesting observations Growing weary of power struggles and background noise By Steven Kelly TO-DO list: Argue with Americans. Get rid of Parry. Stir embers of Ferguson feud. Check on Gerrard’s court case. Remove kidney stones. Kick off about the Academy. Blame someone for Agger’s contract stalling. Was there anything else? Sure there’s something more I should be doing ...... Er, try to win the league for Liverpool? It’s always the unimportant stuff that slips under the radar. For someone who only wanted to focus on Everton, Benitez gave an uncanny impression of an interfering busybody puffed-up with self-importance. Through the doth-protest-too-much denials of each press conference called to put out fires he started, there emerged much to be curious about. Like how swiftly Hicks responded to Rafa’s contract refusal. Why, it’s almost as if he knew what would happen before any other person at the club (bar one). But that couldn’t be. Benitez is a man of the people and there’s no way he would collude so brazenly with the Great Satan destroying our club. We rounded on the media last week for using the word “outburst”, but they come so thick and fast now that we’re inclined to agree with the press. It seems any element of control has been lost. Fans who initially revelled in the attack on Ferguson were slightly less enamoured after the draw with Stoke. Ironic really, since that seemed a reasonably good point by 4.45pm on Saturday. When the transparent manoeuvring against Parry began in earnest the huge wells of good will began to evaporate. Cynic that I am, it felt like the start of an exit strategy. Who’d take on any manager with so little stomach for a fight, unless it was clear there was nothing he could ever do to overcome such obstacles. With the refs in United’s pocket and hindered on all sides at Anfield, how could he possibly be expected to secure number 19? His supporters all yahoo’d like never before, embroidering the myth of siege mentality and the rallying of troops that would improve our chances. Seriously, how ‘rallied’ do you feel right now after a calamitous weekend where rivals showed varying degrees of fortitude and fortune whilst we disappointed on the pitch (where it actually matters) again. Rafa wants to spend the budget his way or not at all. Doesn’t this now raise questions about his use or rather misuse of Keane? Wait until the various ministries of truth are done. He won’t have heard of him, never mind wanted to sign him. It was probably Parry’s idea to buy Dossena too. Laugh if you want but I’ve read some extraordinary drivel from the one-eyed king’s most loyal subjects. When all’s said and done, it’s nonsense to suggest that a manager whose team was top of the table for months wasn’t being allowed to do his job properly! “This was never about money”? Well, it was at one stage. It was also about the length of contract. In both instances Hicks and Gillett caved. Now there’s something else. They agree to this, and there will be more. There always will be, constantly exploiting the fans’ hatred of the owners. After all the chicanery you’d think the actual match would come as a blessed relief. It didn’t. Rafa’s right when he says we’d have taken this in August, but there’s background noise now and it’s deafening. I could write a novel about the deterioration of the derby and the squealing inferiority complex across the park. When Everton don’t celebrate a derby draw like victory they’ll be a threat again. Moyes was oblivious to favourable refereeing and latched limpet-like to one dubious decision that didn’t go their way. One can imagine him muttering about a protected elite, conspiracies, favouritism and the words “so-called” and “level playing field” in the same sentence. It would be awful if our man were like that, that’s a fact. Reds left recent matches uttering the same word: courage. This time it was triggered by the withdrawal of £40m’s worth of attacking talent rather than it being benched, though 60 minutes for Keane was 65 too many on this form. Damn you, Parry! Gerrard is no longer a central midfield player and once he returned to his usual attacking role he scored. The instinct was to protect the lead, the idea of scoring another and sealing victory utterly alien. The equaliser had a ghastly inevitability about it, coming as it did from one of the most loathsome men in football. It punished the decision to use Lucas in the first place with a righteous ferocity. We’ve had better weeks.

Are you taking the piss?

Lets call a spade a spade here, he shinned or mishit 4 or 5 goals at the start of the season. Otherwise the last 2 years from him have been nothing more than 100% graft, poor technique and to give him his due some very decent champions league performances in backs against the wall games towards the end of last season. Bizarrely he has started every single premiership game this year and gotten the full 90 mins in the vast majority, he is Rafa's favourite player and nothing will change this.

This obsession with Rafa is just weird

Catch22 you acting like a moonie at this stage. Why the hell would Rafa spend 20 million on a squad player when there are gaping holes across the first team?

Great post. Sums it up perfectly

Thats the posting equivalent of throwing your toys out of the pram. We were in a fantastic position, no if buts or maybe. We had a serious shot of the title if we fronted up and attacked a bunch of teams operating on a tenth of our budget. I couldn't really give a shit what Rafa did at Valencia, its nice for him to have done well there but his record here is what counts, ProRata or not. Lets agree to disagree. You think winning a title is impossible without having the best squad with the highest wages. I don't.

i.e. there is more to football than having the best squad. Chelsea have been a mess tactically and team spirit wise since Mourinho left, and they also suffered when Abramovich foisted Ballack and Shevchenko into the team. Team spirit, tactics, approach of the manager to the game are all very important criteria when assessing a title challenge and Benetiz is open to question on all of these issues. It is not a sin to do so, this is not RafaBenitez FC. A good squad probably is the key element but its far from being the only one. As such, with the start we made, I think we've blown a great opportunity.

That just makes no sense. By your "logic" Chelsea should have won the last 2 titles.

Just because they have a better squad than us doesn't mean we shouldn't be well clear of them. I actually don't think they are a million miles ahead of us in squad terms and I certainly think we have the squad to win a title, how a manager utilises his squad and also the ethos he instills in his approach to the game are very big factors The way things fell for us this year, i personally think we should be well clear. Its a mentality thing on Rafa's part, that is my opinion. You could see it last night when he had to make a decision about taking Torres off. Do I bring on a midfielder and shore things up but leave no threat up front or do i bring on Babel and maybe give them something to worry about on the counter. He will nearly always go for option A.

The mancs have a better defensive line up than us and their forwards aren't clicking as well this year, but their approach in general from what I have seen of them(6 or 7 games) tends to be positive and attacking. Our squad is plenty good enough to win it. Plenty good enough. We should be 10 points clear. We are too cautious when needing to go for the kill, i don't even think that's open for debate.

If we fade off into the distance and United stroll to the league, then after 5 years the question needs to be asked is he the man who will deliver the title? Whether the answer is yay or nay is relatively moot at present.

I disagree. He isn't looking for the ball, isn't looking to make one-two's, isn't trying any nutemgs. Thats what he is/was all about. His confidence is shattered. Now maybe its his own fault for not having the mentality to cope with playing one game in three and being able to cope with playing different positions but i would contend that this should have been spotted before he was signed. But all in all, a disastrous signing and a complete waste of 20 million that should have been spent on the right wing.

Here we go. 2nd aint so bad. The fact is our negative approach is costing us and will continue to cost us. Same thing happened again yesterday as soon as we went one up. Complete change of mindset. Surrendered the initiative completely. Now this is the key, this is the way Benitez plays, if you don't like it then you'd better start advocating someone else, he is not going to change. We've thrown away a title because of of this, not just a challenge but a title. I think it may have been in one of Dave's match reports back after the Hull home game, when the players just had to go for it being 2 down and as soon as we pulled it back and Rafa got them in the dressing room, he stifled things, he wanted control. Cue a more staid 2nd half. It drives him mental to see players being impetuous, being given free reign or pushing on and possibly leaving a few gaps. Well pissed off.

Keane is a broken man, I've been watching for years and the bubbly effervescent player that he was/is is gone and I don't know if he'll ever recapture that playing for us, he isn't going to be first choice, get a run of games or play in his favoured position very often. In hindsight it was a very very strange signing. I think we'd be better off getting what we can for him now.

Hopefully this is actually a full on 4-4-2 with Keane playing alongside Torres, not 10 yards behind him. That is crucial in all of this. Can't argue with that side at all.

I said over the next few months judging by the tone and content of some people recently, and not just here. Not many are categorically saying so now, but if we fade, i expect them to say they are happy with the season. Personally if we fade, I think we'll have let it behind us we the stupid points dropped and be devastated. Anyhow, lets win this one tonight, and hope it doesn't come to it. Only positivity for the rest of the evening.

Fans. I'm seeing the signs across the various forums, office talk, pubs etc, we don't have the squad/money/experience arguments are starting to creep in.