catinhat

Parry: "Statements saying this will happen if we finish fourth and that will happen if we finish fifth is not what this club's about and it's not helpful at the present time" Pessimistic interpretation - GH will be here next season regardless Optimistic interpretation - GH might not be here even if we finish 4th Since the sun is shining today, I'm trying to be more optimistic - it's not as if he's giving GH any degree of support what so ever. Still optimism or not, my gut feeling is that he will still be in charge next season...

Really shows the state of our team - and the mental state of fans - that it's easier to list the few players we want to stay rather than the many we want rid of. I would add Hyypia to the list of players to stay though. Hyypia together with a fast centre back would still be a good partnership. If we get rid of Riise, we might as well get rid of all of our young players, because this assumes we can't get an improvment out of any of them. All you have to do is look at all the young players we've bought and how many of them have improved - think of the likes of...er...um...hmmmm. The fact that we don't seem able to improve young players and get the most out of them is yet another indication of the training / tactical / football philosophy failure at the club. Baros is the only player I can think of who looks better now than when he arrived.

Obviously I like the idea of a clear-out, but the £30m figure seems wildly optimistic: £5m for Heskey (if we're very lucky - I imagine it would be £3-4m, especially since he only has a year left on contract). We might get £3-£4m for Diouf, and could probably get £3-4m for Henchoz. Babbel will go on a free, simply to get him off wage bill, and Traore, Diao and Vignal could raise about £5m in total. Hence even if we're being as optimistic as possible, I can't see us getting more than £18m for the players mentioned in the article.

It's ok we can all relax: GH today: "We're still in there fighting and I'm sure we won't play as badly as we did yesterday in any of the games coming up" Does he mean we won't play as badly as we have done in 4 out of every 5 matches over the last 2 years? Was Yesterday's rubbish significantly worse than the rubbish we've seen so consitently for 2 years? I'd put money on us having at least 2 more rubbish performances before the season is over. I'm just an optimist though...

Not heard anything, but the fact that the journo is an Alan Nixon makes me think it's a crock of Sh!t anyway. Nixon has made up so many stories this season, I don't believe anything he writes.

I wouldn't necessarily say "Composure is not one of JC's strengths" equates to not rating someone. I think the point Hermes makes is right - Henry Humilliated Carra so badly for their third goal that he actually went spinning into Biscan and prevented any chance of him getting across to make a tackle (although in fairness I doubt he would gave got there anyway. If Biscan had done what Carra did, he would be absolutely slaughtered on here.

The prospect of Millwall, Man U and Cardiff fans all being in the same place at the same time, followed by Millwall fans in Europe doesn't inspire much confidence.

I think that what we have to bear in mind is that since his heart op, Houllier hasn't had the patience / ability to think about what he is going to say before saying it. This is why he comes out with far more rubbish in live interviews than printed ones. What is surprising - as Kurt points out - is that nobody has a quiet word to tell him about the ridicule he receives for the constant sh!t he comes out with. It's got to the point that whenever I see him talking live, I'm allways embarrassed and cringing, regardless of what he says.

4 games in 9 days was stupid for us in 2001 and it's stupid for Arsenal in 2004. Two stupids don't make a not stupid...

Gray: 'I certainly believe that Everton team which almost won the treble deserves far more credit than it ever received'. Yes mr Gray, lets look at all the almost teams and complain about the credit that they deserved but didn't get (Liverpool almost winning the double in 88 and 89...) Conversely, I think that the Man U team that won the treble gets far more credit than they deserve, and I feel bitter that there's not more critisism of that team. OK, fair enough they walked away with the league but their FA cup and European cup vicories were only achieved through the ritual slaughter of goals, hence sealing their deal with Satan and allowing them to receive more luck than it's possible to get (according to the formula Luck = 2.3 x zy/games/woodwork hit by opposition/goats/last minute winners/penalty saves/wondergoals).

Hey Mr Monty - I'd like to see our 2 Liverpool teams battle it out for charidy. I particularly appreciate your sneaky inclusion of Milli Vanilli - a more numerous force than even you imagined; Perhps they would really be 4 players - the 2 'faces' from Milli Vanilli and then the 2 actual musicians...

Yashin (via time capsule) Diddier Baptiste (he's old, but he's still got it) Taul Paul The Incredible Hulk Cafu / Carlos left and right footed hybrid created through the miracle of science Rikooteemi (made up player I managed to get linked to Chelsea) The New, New Zidane (somewhere from the French 3rd Division) Carl Fletcher (from Bournmouth, not Dream Team) Sepp Blatter Pele's Powerfully potent penis Steve Harmison (very tall - would wreak havok no doubt) Manager - The (former) Iraqi Information minister. If any team could beat us with this line up, I would be most surprised.

Hermes - I agree with part of what you say (our trophy count being better than most since we last won the title), but I wouldn't follow the party line and count the Super cup and Charity (sorry Community) sheild as real trophies. If Morgan really is pro PLC and groundshare, then obviously Moores is right to turn him down. My main point, put more concisely than before is simply this - Why would Moores possibly keep Houllier on, regardless of where we finish this season, when it is so clear to all fans (himself included) that a radical change is needed. I'm just worried that he might have fallen for Houllier's spin (about injuries, bad refereeing, bad luck, bad hair days, buterflies in Australia etc)

The 2 years of LFC decline are evident for all to see. Moores is clearly a passionate Liverpool fan, but if Houllier is still manager next season, it will be a scandal. I have been appauled by some of the personal abuse directed towards Houllier, but the bottom line is that the club needs a shake up and without a new manager, I can't see us doing any better than we've done the last couple of years. I hope that Houllier has the dignity to leave at the end of the season, before the good work that he did in the first few years gets totally obscured by the dross and terrible excuses of the last two years. (Incidentally, I read today that Houllier said 'now we have all our players back, we are getting better' - is that better in terms of still being rubbish, terrible to watch and unable to beat teams we should be p!ssing on?) If Houllier doesn't have the dignity and common sense to resign, will Moores do the right thing and tell him to resign or else? Do you think Moores is completely unaware of the frustrations of fans and anger towards Houllier? Is he burying his head in the sand, is he ignorant or does he really believe that we're in our current predicament because of bad refereeing and injuries? Surely he knows how the fans feel. Surely as a fan himself he is just as appauled as we are by the terrible, hopeless uninspired football that we play. I am also confused about why (despite saying at the AGM that he would sit down and talk), he has refused Morgan's offer. I don't know enough about Morgan - maybe Moores is genuinely trying to protect the best interests of the club. But maybe there is an element of ego at stake - if Morgan does get on the board, Moores' man Houllier is sure to go and maybe this would be a personal defeat for the chairman. I'm glad we have a chairman who is unlike so many of the publicity seeking idiot chairman seen in the premiership, but I fear that without biting the bullet and getting rid of Houllier (regardless of where we finish this season) we will be forced to endure more of the same terrible football and results of the last 2 years. Liverpool shouldn't be competing with Charlton and Birmingham, Liverpool shouldn't be winning only 1 in 3 games, and Liverpool shouldn't be playing football so terrible that our fans are loosing passion for the game as a whole.

I've seen Cisse a fair bit on Eurosport. It's always difficult to accurately judge a player playing in a fairly weak league, but here's what I have noticed about him: He is frighteningly quick (one time I saw him defending a corner in his own box and the next minute he was bursting towards goal). He has a very hard shot, and tries shooting from all sorts of angles and distances. He seems to have a fairly good striker's awareness - following in on other's shots on goal (unlike Heskey who often just stands around not moving), scoring headers etc He doesn't have the skill and flair of Henry, but then again, who does... My only concern is that Houllier is obsessed with buying tall, powerful players, regardles of how good they are (Diao, Biscan, Diarra, Cheyrou, Traore) and until we see Cisse in the Prem, we won't know whether he's a French version of Heskey or a genuinely good player. I'd still like him to sign though.

You are right - it is a ridiculously bold statement. I looked on the web and couldn't find anything. The accusation came out a few years ago, during a stint at one of the clubs he was managing for a few months. I don't know what came of it. However, one surely must be suspicious of any manager who buys Kvarme (maybe even twice) when he is no longer an unknown quantity. Toshack was also implicated in the fake passport scandal at Saint Etienne a few years ago...But all of this is to side-track. Fine, I officially retract my foolishly flipant statement about bungs, but this doesn't change the fact that to talk about Toshack as manager is madness to me. He left Wales after one game - due to the pressure and critisism. I don't want that sort of person managing LFC, and nothing he has done elsewhere in his managerial career makes me think he could do any better than GH

I really just can not believe people are serious about wanting Toshack as manager. His record is pretty bad (other than managing a Real Madrid team to one title, something that most of us could probably do), his comments as a pundit remind me of Howard Wilkinson, and I'm pretty sure he took bungs. He's quickly been sacked or walked away from most jobs and simply by having been a great player at Liverpool does not mean he would succeed as manager. To want him as manager smacks of a fantasy football / comic book view of reality.

Red Peter - I don't think that our squad is that poor ("5th rate"). If anything I think that the strength of our squad paired with our poor results, performance and league position simply illustrates that the problem is with tactics and mentality rather than squad. I accept that people (including myself) have gripes about Diao, Traore, Heskey, Biscan etc playing for Liverpool, but if you look at our squad player for player, we should be way ahead of the likes of Charlton, Villa, Newcastle, Fulham, and we should certainly be nearer the top 3. When ever I see a Man U team sheet, I just can't believe how crap they look on paper - Putting aside the fact that they play for an evil team, Would you want the likes of Fortune, Neville (in midfied), Forlan, Djemba Djemba, Mark Walters (...I mean Mr Step-over, over rated, over priced Ronaldo), Wes Brown, Butt, Bellion etc in our squad? They're no better than the players we have, but somehow the Mancs manage to get the most out of their players. Aresenal also manage to get the most out of their players. They have some outstanding players, but they also have people like Cole (great going forward but very suspect defensively), Parlour (would he get onto our subs bench?), Lauren (not naturally a right back) Gilberto (hasn't really made the expected impact) and a keeper who was once sent off for punching one of his own players. but what ever they do on the training ground or the tactics room, enables them to play as a fluid team much better than we do.

I actually think Cheyrou played ok. Nothing spectacular, but he was very efficient, didn't give the ball away much (something we can usually only say about Didi), did some nice first time passes, and even won a few tackles. I think that we do have a tactical problem under Houllier. He is so focussed on discipline and order, that all players have to be conscious of their defensive responsibilites (more than players are at the top 3 in the league). As I mentioned before, if you look at how much passing and moving Arsenal do, you could argue that they are simly more fit than we are, but a more likely reason is because the defence and disciplined positional side of their play is not drummed into their lot like it's drummed into our team. Additionally, Arsenal are all about trying to destroy the other team, rather than our priotity, which is avoiding defeat at all costs.

Fagus - Luck is a value judgement. I say Liverpool were unlucky not to win, you disagree and say luck had nothing to do with it. Ultimately there's no right or wrong, it's all just opinions. My opinion is that whereas the draw with Wolves, or loss at Spurs was not due to unlucky Liverpool, Yesterday's match was a genuine case of unlucky Liverpool. In the 2001 FA cup final, ecstatic though I was that we won, I feel we were pretty lucky to win, having had few chances and been outplayed for most of the match.

I did watch the Arsenal game and as ever they were pretty damn good. What ever they work on in training it obviously translates onto the pitch. When ever I watch Arsenal, I am amazed by quite how much passing and movement they have in their team - they always have a few players running, opening space up, making themselves available for a pass etc. We obviously have players that can do the same, so sometimes I wonder whether GH's defensive priorities means he instructs our players not to be too fluent so that we're not caught out of posion if we lose possession. When Dave U started posting articles about why Houllier should go (and invited people to write pieces supporting GH) I wanted to write one in support, but I just didn't quite have the conviction. I'm sitting on the fence at the moment (ouch). So many conflicting thoughts. Manc fans wanted to sack Fergie and their evil board was right not to, but this doesn't necessarily mean that GH will likewise win us the title if we stick by him. Basically, since coming back from his op, he's been a different person. He didn't talk half as much cr@p before he was ill, yet these days, so much of what he says makes me cringe - I sometimes have to avoid pre and post match interviews cos they make me so embarrassed. Our tactics seem to confuse everyone, and I don't like the way we so often play to counter the 'strengths' of other teams (even if they are rubbish teams like Spurs, Wolves, Everton, Portsmout etc) rather than concentrating on our own strengths, which is what we used to do. Stats can be used to manipulate arguments, but at the same time they do not lie - excluding the opening games of last season, we've just been terribly inconistent for nearly 2 years now, both in terms of results and performances. To see our team, with the players we have, play so much terrible football and be battling with the likes of Fulham and Charlton for Europe really hurts me, as I'm sure it hurts other fans. At the same time, I don't know if I'd want GH replaced too hastily, simply because I don't know who is out there to replace him. I can not believe that some Liverpool fans seriously think that Toshack is the answer to our problems. He was a great player for us, but now he's just a pundit and part time bribe taking manager who gets fired all the time cos he can't get anything out of his teams. As for O'neil, nobody can really have any idea what he would be like managing a top club in a top league. Also, he talks as much cr@p as Houllier. Oh the pain of supporting our team!...

While I share the disappointment of yesterday’s result, and the feelings of deja vu, I think the reaction of most fans is way over the top. I agree that Houllier’s tactics are baffling more often than not. I agree that H*skey shouldn’t be playing (and certainly not in midfield). I also agree that when we are leading, we need to go for the jugular as Arsenal or Man U would. However, I think that we were genuinely unlucky in yesterday’s game. Odd as the tactics were, we did have enough chances to win the game – it wasn’t like we were just sitting back. It’s unfortunate that 2 of them fell to our No 8, it’s unfortunate that Gerrard’s run into the box was stopped by the defender taking out Gerrard before getting a touch on the ball, and it’s unfortunate that when Gerrard was fouled (clearly in the box as TV replays showed), the ref gave the free kick just outside the box. Gerrard's break-away shot missing the post by inches was another bit of bad luck. Portsmouth didn’t ever look like scoring, and there was even a slice of luck fortheir goal, coming via a random direction flick on from Henchoz (or was it Hyypia?). I watched the game on TV, and I know this is not the same as being at the game, but I did notice some very nice passages of passing, and some pass and move football that we tend to see very rarely. The chants of Attack, Attack, Attack were somewhat odd, as I thought we were attacking for most of the game. It was not like so many games in the past where we score and then barely have a shot on goal afterwards. Just as we have been lucky in the past to hold on to narrow victories, yesterday we were unlucky not to score more and put the game out of reach. I don’t think that luck evens itself out over a season - why should it? There are simply periods of good luck and bad luck. In our double season we had a healthy sprinkling of luck. This season (and not to excuse our position and some terrible football) I think we have suffered some very bad luck. I don’t think Houllier should harp on about luck - such talk doesn’t suit a manager, but I’m happy to express my view and if you were to analyse injuries, goals scored, conceded, penalties given and turned down, I think it would show that we’ve had a pretty bad run of luck this season. It’s absurd to blame too much on luck (although check the Manc treble year if you really want to see how lucky a team can be), but if you look at yesterday's game in isolation, we were unlucky, end of story. Just a quick note about Carra – by some miracle it seems like his healed leg is better than the pre-broken one. I’m sure he’s quicker than he was and he must have been doing lots of shooting practice. Don’t want to curse him, but surely it’s only a matter of time before he scores (goal number 3 I believe?).

Just watched the game on TV (I'm abroad at the mo). Here are my initial thoughts: Spurs were rubbish, and so were we. All in all it was a crap game. Neither keeper had a meaningful save to make. To have 3 full backs on the bench and none in the starting 11 is sheer madness. Biscan had 2 typical lapses, and both cost us goals. It looked like Keane should have been off-side just before Biscan fouled him for the pen. I haven't seen the right angle, but I think Biscan must have been playing him on. Biscan's tackle from behind was bound to conceed a pen. Jones got a hand on the spot kick and was a bit unlucky not to save it (no blame attached though). For the second goal, Biscan lost his player - the quite dreadful Postiga, who apart from the goal and a few hand-balls, didn't do a thing. Why is it that terrible strikers on awful goal droughts always score against us? (Lisbie, Forlan and Jardel are just a few that spring to mind...). I think Danny Murphy was playing, but I only remember seeing him immediately before he gave the ball away. Cheyrou looked lost on the right wing. When Kewell was on the right, I have no idea where Cheyrou was. I have no idea why he wasn't replaced by Le Tallec. Didi was probably our best player, but he wasn't quite his dominant self. Hyypia and Henchoz were both fairly solid and I don't think either were at fault for the goals. Henchoz can't help drifting into the middle though - not surprising really since he is clearly not a full-back. Owen looked rusty again, Kewell was fairly quiet but made and took his goal very well. H**k*y won a couple of flick-ons, but looked indecisive most of the time. Is he a striker? At 2-0 down I don't really understand how swapping 2 defenders for 2 different defenders was going to help. I guess removing Biscan did reduce Spurs' attacking opions though. As for Pongolle not being on the bench...your guess as to his where-abouts is as good as mine. Spurs committed about 30 fouls / hand-balls, and this meant that a dreadful game had absolutely no flow. We definitely should have had a pen for a Spurs hand-ball in the last few minutes. But with Rennie as ref, nothing surprises me. 4th is still a realistic possibility (such high expectations!) , but playing as cluelessly and with so many players out of position, we could just as easily end the season in the bottom half of the table. After today's inspirational performance, Owen will no doubt be desparate to sign a new contract...

I think Bruno has a lot of quality - in terms of vision, technique, etc etc. What I don't know, is whether he is strong enough mentally - in his early games he was pushed off the ball all the time and seemed so scared of being tackled that he'd just pass the ball anywhere (in to touch, to one of their players, to absolutely nobody, and even sometimes to one of our players). He looked a typical Houllier signing - clear potential but more mouse than man - just the way Houllier likes it - make sure there are no players with real spark and personality, because they might not cower to him. I understand what Hou was trying to do (get rid of the spice boys, maks sure nobody thinks that they are bigger than the team etc etc)...but this policy meant we would miss out on the flair or creative genious that often goes hand in hand with arrogance. Our shortcomings have to an extent forced Houllier to change his ways - Kewell is no angel and the French kids, young as they are clearly have some attitude. Anyway, to get back to Cheyrou (excuse me, for I went a wondering....) I have to disagree with Dave U when he talks about Henry's early days at Arsenal. Henry wasn't just less good than he is now (and I think he is now the best player in the world), Henry was absolutely terrible. Can you remember the game against the Gunners when Fowler scored his falling over goal? Henry spent the game hiding on the wing (even though he was playing up front), miss-kicking the ball, and falling over. I think he scored something like 2 goals in his first 15 games for Arsenal. But Wenger stood by him, gave him confidence and look where he is now. I'm not saying that Cheyrou is going to have a similar improvement and being a striker is different because success is more easiy measured. However I don't think anyone has actually seen enough of Bruno (for Liverpool) to decide how good or bad he is going to be. He could be the creative genious we've lacked for so long, or he could be a French Paul Stewart. But we'll only really know when he gets a good run in the team and feels he has the full confidence and backing of the manager and team-mates.

Daily Express - rubbish paper with rubbish journalists who stink of booze at 10am (and 11am, and after lunch, and pretty much all day - I should know, I've shared quite a few elevators with them). Any chance that a few other journos might join him? Plus that horrible Ian Collins (I think that's his name - the one who hosts Monday night footie on Sky and clearly hates Liverpool).