Bruce Spanner

Then tell me, genius, how, to quote yourself a majority who are vehemently opposed to something can not only vote for it once, but twice? This has been amended, my mistake. Now for the rest, go fuck your self you idiotic conspiracy paddler, get off the internet, engage with the real world and see how fucking dumb, deluded and wrong you fucking are. You are nothing more than a product of a self defeating echo chamber and it’s genuinely pathetic to see people sucked in to this bullshit. This still stands.

The suggestion was, from another poster, that the majority of the PLP were to quote ‘majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party being centre right snakes‘ which isn’t just stupid, it’s logically impossible as he was elected by the very same people, twice.

Yes, by party members, he won two leadership contests. I voted for him in both. Now I’m sure all those rabid ‘right wingers’ did the same, until it came to the real plan, to have the ‘majority’ conspire against him and him run a disastrous campaign that anybody with a ounce of prescience could see coming a mile off. Bollocks and sounds conspiracy worthy at this point. He lost because the campaign was shit and the British public reject him for a myriad of reasons, get fucking over it.

Majority, that elected said leader? Come on, even you must realise how silly that sounds and looks. So the majority turned on him after they had voted for him, twice?

The kid thing happened to me a couple of years back. A mate in our larger circle of friends who I see once/twice a year, really nice guy. Sat having a few drink, nice and relaxed, started talking about how great it was being a dad etc, like you do. Anyhow's I turn to him without thinking and say 'You'll love it when it's your time' not knowing his grlfriend had just suffered a late term miscarrige the week before and the reason he was here was to cheer him up. No fucker told me until after and I had no idea they were having a kid. The world could have swallowed me up! All's well, they finally had a kid earlier this year and are really happy now after several miscarriges.

Polling show 40/50% Republicans believe some of this shite, ‘some of’ being the most important point, as we don’t really know the depths of feeling or what they actually believe. However the same polling showed 30/40% of independents believed some of it with 15/20% of Democrats also buying in to some. Now obviously you can’t generalise, but those figures are mad. The Republicans I get, they watch partisan news which fills their head with shite and using the same idea you can also explain the indies within reason, but a fifth of Democrats buy in to some of this? Something has gone terribly wrong in America of this is true.

Some of, yes and they can genuinely go fuck themselves, not all, but the rest I get completely. Starmer I trust his hearts in the right place, if that transpires in to policies that stick and ideas that benefit many great, if not then we’re back at square one. Do I trust him to win an election, I’m not sure yet as he seems naive and green, but he’s the man we chose, so he’s the man we back. You don’t get to have the career he’s had without being competent and able to deal with politics, hopefully it’s transferable, time will tell. Its going to be a long and frustrating four years.

They’re both doing their best to undermine democracy and limit fundamental freedoms, checks and balances. They’re very much singing from the same hymn sheet. One in a much more overt way, the other opted for the nefarious route... https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/10/26/britains-democratic-fabric-being-eroded-boris-johnsons-government https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/09/boris-johnson-s-trump-style-assault-british-institutions-threat-democracy https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-general-election-brexit-courts-legal-gina-miller-a9218256.html%3Famp And so on, they’ve been chipping away since they got in.

Oh, yeah, on a venn diagram the central cross over would be packed.

'The name of God was everywhere during Wednesday’s insurrection against the American government. The mob carried signs and flag declaring jesus saves! and god, guns & guts made america, let’s keep all three. Some were participants in the Jericho March, a gathering of Christians to “pray, march, fast, and rally for election integrity.” After calling on God to “save the republic” during rallies at state capitols and in D.C. over the past two months, the marchers returned to Washington with flourish. On the National Mall, one man waved the flag of Israel above a sign begging passersby to say yes to jesus. “Shout if you love Jesus!” someone yelled, and the crowd cheered. “Shout if you love Trump!” The crowd cheered louder. The group’s name is drawn from the biblical story of Jericho, “a city of false gods and corruption,” the march’s website says. Just as God instructed Joshua to march around Jericho seven times with priests blowing trumpets, Christians gathered in D.C., blowing shofars, the ram’s horn typically used in Jewish worship, to banish the “darkness of election fraud” and ensure that “the walls of corruption crumble.” Read: Mass delusion in America The Jericho March is evidence that Donald Trump has bent elements of American Christianity to his will, and that many Christians have obligingly remade their faith in his image. Defiant masses literally broke down the walls of government, some believing they were marching under Jesus’s banner to implement God’s will to keep Trump in the White House. The group’s co-founders are essentially unknown in the organized Christian world. Robert Weaver, an evangelical Oklahoma insurance salesman, was nominated by Trump to lead the Indian Health Service but withdrew after The Wall Street Journal reported that he misrepresented his qualifications. Arina Grossu, who is Catholic, recently worked as a contract communications adviser at the Department of Health and Human Services. (Weaver and Grossu declined to comment. “Jericho March denounces any and all acts of violence and destruction, including any that took place at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, 2021,” a PR spokesperson for the March wrote to me in an email after the publication of this article.) Still, they will have far more influence in shaping the reputation of Christianity for the outside world than many denominational giants: They helped stage a stunning effort to circumvent the 2020 election, all in the name of their faith. White evangelicals, in particular, overwhelmingly supported Trump in 2016 and 2020. Some of these supporters participated in the attack on the Capitol on Wednesday. But many in the country hold all Trump voters responsible—especially those who lent him the moral authority of their faith. This realization has shaken Christian leaders. “I certainly did not believe, or have any anticipation, that [Trump] would take matters to the extent that have become clear over the last few weeks,” Albert Mohler, the head of an influential evangelical seminary in Kentucky who hopes to be the next president of the Southern Baptist Convention, told me. Mohler opposed Trump in 2016, citing what he saw as the candidate’s poor character. But last spring, he publicly declared that he would support Trump in 2020 and vote for Republican presidential candidates for the rest of his life. “We are undoubtedly in an agonizing moment, in which evangelical Christians who supported Donald Trump now find ourselves in the position of being tremendously embarrassed by this most recent behavior,” he told me. Mohler said he was shocked by the triumph of the mob on Wednesday. He could not believe that the president had explicitly encouraged this attack on the constitutional process. “Conservatives do not believe there is any excuse, whatsoever, for unleashing what amounts to a destructive rage on the nation,” he said. I asked him whether evangelicals who supported Trump have an obligation to grapple with their role in enabling Trump’s behavior. “I honestly don’t know the extent to which history will record the evangelicals—I’m trying to think of the word you just used for supporting the president. What was the word you just used? Enabling the president,” he said. “I’ve been very clear in my criticism of the president’s bad behavior.” Surely he didn’t vote for this. He couldn’t have known that this is how Trump would end things. But he sees that evangelicals are due for a reckoning in their own house. “Where we find ourselves in the wrong, repentance is always called for.” Other evangelical leaders who have mostly stayed silent during Trump’s time in office finally spoke out on Wednesday. “Armed breaching of capitol security behind a confederate flag is anarchy, unAmerican, criminal treason and domestic terrorism. President Trump must clearly tell his supporters ‘We lost. Go home now,’” tweeted Rick Warren, an influential California megachurch pastor. But it was too late. Someone else had already grabbed the megaphone. “This is bigger than one election,” Grossu says on the Jericho March website. “This is about protecting free and fair elections for the future and saving America from tyranny.” Paranoid thinking abounded among the protesters in D.C.; the QAnon conspiracy has circulated within some evangelical circles. On Wednesday, the Jericho March account tweeted a screenshot of Trump condemning Vice President Mike Pence for not stopping the certification of the Electoral College votes. “A sad day in America,” it said, along with prayer-hands emojis. The march organizers were not mourning the attack on the Capitol. They were mourning the vice president’s refusal to help the president overturn the election.' Well, that's just dandy, god's in on this bullshit now. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/evangelicals-catholics-jericho-march-capitol/617591/

I tried to sign up for that yesterday and I was 50,000+ in line. They may have not thought this through.

No, I meant the n the media. I’ve had a look around and it’s about being a publisher and being responsible for what is published. So anonymity would be under threat and there would be regulations more aligned with the press, plus, of course, taxation.

Hancock on Ridge just swerved a question about Trumps Twitter being suspended he did waffle in to saying though that it’s seems like an editorial policy and maybe this needs to be looked as as an editorial choice, so they become news providers? I remember something about this from a while back and there being a kick off, can’t fully remember though, anybody help out?

Pretty much.

Some interesting data... More people think Boris Johnson should resign as prime minister than think he should continue in office, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer. The first poll of 2021 found that 43% thought he should resign, while 40% said that he should remain as leader. However, most Conservative voters (87%) think Johnson should stay on as leader, with just 7% thinking he should resign. Just 20% believed Keir Starmer should resign as Labour leader, with 52% saying he should remain as leader. There were also signs of a slight drop in support for the government’s handling of coronavirus.Some 72% (+4 on the last poll) think the government has not acted fast enough, with 42% (+4) thinking they are definitely not acting fast enough. Johnson’s overall approval numbers have seen a slight drop. The proportion approving is now 37% (down one point from the last poll), while 45% disapprove (up one point). The government’s handling of the virus more generally has also seen a small drop. The number who approve is now 31% (-3), while the number disapproving is 48% (+3). This is the highest disapproval number since early November. Overall, Labour hold a one-point lead on 40% of the vote, with the Conservatives on 39%. The Lib Dems are on 6%, the SNP on 5%, and the Greens on 4%.’ 87% of Tories back the useless cunt, we really do share this stupid little island with some absolute fucking morons.

You have to ask about who’s leading who here? Are they ‘really’ in to it, or are they using it to consolidate their position, neither are great, the second is insidious, the first blows my fucking mind.

Don’t talk shit with arguments from false equivalence. We have to understand the reason for it, we don’t have to accept it, logically accepting something which holds no truth will not happen You can talk about the wider contextualised nature of it and that’s fascinating, doesn’t stop it being entirely false and based on lies and this can not be allowed to not be part of any conversation, either immediate or wider. Of course I accept there is another idea, another theory, but this one is by any examination demonstrably false and should be treated as such, anything else is legitimation.

Not the justice system, the wider justice of election victory. I agree their justice system stinks.

1) ‘Alternative facts’ bullshit. 2) It gives less claim as it’s based on demonstrably false information that’s easy to falsify given five minutes of objective thought. If I’m going to run up on parliament I sure as shit would check if I’m right first. This is on them, no matter how much shit they’ve been served, they, through their own volition did this. There are larger powers at play, but the point stands that they physically did this. 3) There is no right to violent protest, only violent overthrow, which is it? 4) Agreed, it’s abhorrent, but when you’ll twist everything to fit your persecuted conspiracy everything seems like an affront, look how they turned on Pence and the rest of the traitors. They’re not thinking correctly and are dangers to the state. 5) This is a significant problem yes, but that’s part of the wider issue. The issue of them committing crimes against the state based on a demonstrably false conspiracy it what’s being discussed and by every objective measure they did.

The points is not why? The point is they did. They attacked democratic institutions based on a demonstrable lie, they have no legitimacy and should not be spoken of as in any way having any. America is a shit hole for its least well off, but that isn’t what’s being discussed, it’s terrorists/rioters/insurrectionists, no matter what amount of brain washing they’ve been subjected to, they still, through their own volition committed an act of sedition against the state based on demonstrably false claims, they have no right of protest or legitimate claim to grievance based on these. There are not two versions of truth, there is one and one that is based entirely on a lie that has been used to weaponise idiots and the disenfranchised for whatever reason and to accept the second is to legitimate, which we can not.

I was in stitches throughout. Loved it. Casting Isaacs as a gruff Northern headcase is perfect.

What about his daughter though?

How Trump Made the Fantasy Real NY Times 'I will be honest and say that I don’t know exactly how to interpret the surreal events that unfolded this week in Washington, D.C., when a mob inflamed by online memes and presidential fantasies rampaged through the halls of the U.S. Capitol. Throughout the Trump era there has been a debate among his critics about whether to regard this presidency as a mortal threat to the Republic or a degrading interlude in its decline, a revival of 1930s fascism or 1870s white supremacy or as something more purely virtual, performative and astonishingly weak. The riot at the capital occupies a liminal, unstable space between these two interpretations. Cock your head one way and it looks like the fulfillment of every Resistance warning: The head of the executive branch incites a mob to take over the seat of the legislative branch and prevent power from being passed to his successor. Cock your head another and it looks like the culmination of the Trump Show: A politically impotent, conspiracy-addled president whips up a rabble of costumed selfie-snappers and then goes home to the White House with no plan except to watch them get rowdy on TV. All I will say for certain, cocking my own head back and forth, is that when I predicted three months ago that there would be no Trump coup, I should have showed more imagination. This was not a coup by any traditional definition of the term (as authors of books on coups quickly took to Twitter to explain), nor was it the kind of Bill Barr-abetted, Supreme Court-stamped use of constitutional trickery that liberals feared. But it was still something more than just a riot. And not merely because of where and with what encouragement it happened, but because it extended from an immersive narrative that made many of its participants fervently believe that they were actors in a world-historical drama, saviors or re-founders of the American Republic. Since some of them, along with a Capitol Police officer, died because of this belief — and if the worst of them had encountered Vice President Mike Pence, even he might have conceivably died for this belief — we can describe this definitively as a moment when the virtual dreamscape, the online backdrop to our sclerotic real-world politics, tore down the curtain and capered in Viking furs in the world outside our screens. But more than that, we can say that Donald Trump, like a fool dabbling with occult forces, was the one who let the veil be torn. For over three years QAnon and its attendant conspiracies made use of his presidency for their narratives, their vast exercise in creating secondary worlds. If, following his electoral defeat, he had just whined about fraud and prepared to run for president again, they probably would have continued the world-building, spinning his exile as the latest phase in “the plan,” with a pre-orchestrated second act forthcoming in 2024. But he wanted more, he wanted a way to actually stay in office, and since no Republican with real power would actually do a coup for him, he turned fully to the fantasy world — which gladly supplied him with story lines, narratives, first the Kraken and then the fixation on Mike Pence as a deus ex machina. And because Trump is, however incompetently, actually the president and not just a character in an online role-playing game, by turning to the dreamworld he made himself a conduit for the dream to enter into reality, making the dreamers believe in the plausibility of direct action, giving us the riot and its dead. Meanwhile, the politicians who went along with him partway — Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley and Kevin McCarthy above all — were like cynical characters in a horror movie who thought they could siphon a little power from an occult dimension, never imagining that the veil would actually be torn. And now? Having touched the real world and seen its brief occupation of the Capitol shrivel, I suspect the dreamscape will require time to regain the faith of its less radical adherents, to reshape its narratives to encompass Trump’s defeat. Under a Democratic administration, there will be attempts to deploy law enforcement like ghostbusters crossed with pre-crime units, trying to prevent the very-online from impinging on the real. On the right, the inevitable excesses of those efforts will be opposed, but more weakly and ineffectually because of what just happened, what conservatism’s relationship to fantasy just wrought. What happens to the Republican Party under these conditions? A deeper burrowing into unreality, a partial restoration of realism (depending on liberalism’s own ongoing experiments with fantasy politics) and a permanent fracture are all possible. But we can say this much, at least, about Trump himself. By allowing his presidency to be possessed by the occult online, he sealed his legacy to the populist causes he sometimes pretended to serve: Their fate, for the time being, can be counted with the bodies of his own supporters, the pitiful, deluded dead.'

I know it’s mad, but I don’t think we’re at the point where we can underestimate their stupidly. It only takes a few thousand out of potentially millions, who are so deep in the rabbit hole and feel emboldened by the other night to turn up with semi automatic weapons. One stray bullet and all hell could break loose. What happened the other day surprised me, but it didn’t shock me, they are genuinely living in a different reality to ‘us’ and it’s been created to scare them, outrage them and most importantly blame someone for their perceived, and very real, sufferings. This is a tinder box and I’m not sure who is on who’s side with some of it.